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Last night I found our local search and rescue group using the repeater.  They were only using their tactical calls, non emergency use.  I can not find any rules that would support this kind of use.  95.5b says they can not apply for a group license, so I believe that the only legal non emergency use would require each of them to get an individual license.  Am I missing something?  It would be nice to help, but I do not find any rules that would allow me to allow them to continue.

Doug

wqub249

wb6vac

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Hello Doug and Welcome to MyGMRS.

 

The Search and Rescue group is in technical violation. Each member of the group must have their own individual license - unless the system is being used in a true emergency. Then stipulations in 95.143 must be followed until the emergency is downgraded.

 

If you know who owns the repeater, you may wish to have a face to face with them to do a very friendly reminder of the regulations.  IF the search and Rescue group is INCORPORATED with elected officers, they can apply for a Part 90 license and do it the right way. If it is just a casual group of volunteers, then they have some additional issues to overcome regarding Part 90 licensing.

 

Please keep us posted on things.

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Thanks Pastor Gary

Just wanted to make sure I did not miss anything.  I own the repeater in question.  I think they are a "casual" group working under the sheriff's office.  Even a part 90 license would not help them be able to use my system.  The ones that can use the local ham repeater, or they have to go simplex on the search and rescue side of things.  They thought they could get by using the "sheriff's" part 90 license, and did not realize that gmrs is 95 not 90.  My second machine is on order and hopefully the site ok will get here before the snow.

Doug

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OK, Doug - That clears things up. If the local Frequency Coordinator Service for Part 90 operations can be contacted by the group leader, the coordinator may be able to go over Part 90 operational protocols and find a way to get a proper Part 90 system license for them, so they can get their own equipment. The Sheriffi's Department Radio Shop or contractor can help with getting the group and the coordinator together. They can either incorporate and become a non profit agency OR one ranking person in the group can get an INDIVIDUAL Part 90 license for an appropriate number of repeaters, mobiles and portables and authorize users to work their own Part 90 system under his or her supervision. 

 

Allowing unlicensed operators to use YOUR GMRS system puts a big liability target on your back... and as you mentioned, the Sheriffi's Dept. Part 90 license has nothing to do with Part 95 systems.

 

Best of luck with things....

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I was wondering how the managed to get on your repeater to begin with.I think it is time to talk to their radio shop since they now can be fined for programming unauthorized frequencies in the radios for them.P-G said it earlier a true emergency but the"just in case" excuse doesn't hold water and they should be on FCC Part 90 frequencies to begin with,sounds like a rouge radio dealer.

 

Thinking the could"get by" with using the Sheriff's Part 90 license is bull.They know it is only licensed for certain frequencies and not a license to operate on others repeaters or different bands.We find a good bit of people who like to play dumb when it comes to things of this sort but as the judge says ignorance of the law is no excuse...lol.............William

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spd641

Their was no radio shop involved.  Like so many people, this group uses Baofeng radios, they program themselves..(several hams involved).  Which brings up if the Baofeng is liget on even their part 90 channels if they do NOT have the fcc sticker.  Some of the uv5r's do some do not, depends on how they got into the country.  So it depends on how you read the sticker rule.  We are a very rural area...I think I may be the only person in the county that owens a service monitor.

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spd641

Their was no radio shop involved.  Like so many people, this group uses Baofeng radios, they program themselves..(several hams involved).  Which brings up if the Baofeng is liget on even their part 90 channels if they do NOT have the fcc sticker.  Some of the uv5r's do some do not, depends on how they got into the country.  So it depends on how you read the sticker rule.  We are a very rural area...I think I may be the only person in the county that owens a service monitor.

 

 

I've never seen a UV-5R that didn't have a FCC-ID number on it…I've seen some with Part 90 stickers on them however that doesn't actually matter.

 

They still shouldn't be using your system… 

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I agree and you need to let these people know you can't just pop up on any frequency you wish and start communicating without prior authorization from the repeater or license holder.I would get them off of the repeater as soon as possible since it is your responsibility to maintain your repeater.I would tell them if they continue that you will file a complaint with the FCC for unlicensed use and shut down the repeater until it is resolved.

 

You said a few hams were also involved so I would let them know their ham license are in jeopardy and it does not cover them on any other band  nor GMRS contrary to what they believe.I do not understand the reasoning of people these days,they think since it is there it is a free for all but yet a good bit of the public have that general assumption...William

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ZAP

"I've never seen a UV-5R that didn't have a FCC-ID number on it…I've seen some with Part 90 stickers on them however that doesn't actually matter"

 

Just the reverse...I have only seen a couple that had valid fcc stickers....most of them have the cmiit id numbers(China).  It all goes back to the "is it valid in part 95" war.  While the uv5r is part 90 with the right sticker, I think part 95.655 makes it quite clear that the fcc will not approve any radio if it has ham/mars capability.  But it will never stop them.  And if or when everything goes south will it matter.

 

The search and rescue group got off the freq with 24hrs of having the rules explained to them...took awhile to get all parties notified.

 

My whole goal for the two repeaters was to get something that the backwoods families can use for ecom/comm.  We are a very rural mountainous area, with many that have nothing or depend on a single cell tower.  I went with Bridgecomm for the two repeaters just to get the part 95, so I would have a leg to stand on (not do as I say, not as I do)  Luckly the user licensee is responsible for his/her equipment.

 

My thanks for all of the input above, it re-afirmed what I thought to be correct.

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ZAP

"I've never seen a UV-5R that didn't have a FCC-ID number on it…I've seen some with Part 90 stickers on them however that doesn't actually matter"

 

Just the reverse...I have only seen a couple that had valid fcc stickers....most of them have the cmiit id numbers(China).  It all goes back to the "is it valid in part 95" war.  While the uv5r is part 90 with the right sticker, I think part 95.655 makes it quite clear that the fcc will not approve any radio if it has ham/mars capability.  But it will never stop them.  And if or when everything goes south will it matter.

 

The search and rescue group got off the freq with 24hrs of having the rules explained to them...took awhile to get all parties notified.

 

My whole goal for the two repeaters was to get something that the backwoods families can use for ecom/comm.  We are a very rural mountainous area, with many that have nothing or depend on a single cell tower.  I went with Bridgecomm for the two repeaters just to get the part 95, so I would have a leg to stand on (not do as I say, not as I do)  Luckly the user licensee is responsible for his/her equipment.

 

My thanks for all of the input above, it re-afirmed what I thought to be correct.

 

You will love the Bridegecomm I have one and the audio is excellent and the range at the low height it as at right now gives me excellent coverage and a great warranty.I also have the software and it is fairly easy to use and I like the other features with the Mores code ID and remote shut off and the advantage of having up to 24 different PL Tones on a single frequecy.I hop you enjoy yours as much as I do and the dual fans are a great addition...William

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  • 10 months later...

I just purchased an excellent quality, previously owned, Kenwood TK-380 Series Two for $75.00 from the local Kenwood dealer. This came with a like-new NiMh 1700 mah battery and the KSC-24 multi format charger. This radio is Type Certified for Parts 90 and 95 - and I'm sure that other deals like this may be available elsewhere.

 

Also review the Kenwood TK-370G - It has very similar features.

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I just purchased an excellent quality, previously owned, Kenwood TK-380 Series Two for $75.00 from the local Kenwood dealer. This came with a like-new NiMh 1700 mah battery and the KSC-24 multi format charger. This radio is Type Certified for Parts 90 and 95 - and I'm sure that other deals like this may be available elsewhere.

 

Also review the Kenwood TK-370G - It has very similar features.

You can generally find Icom F21 HTs for around $40 at ham fests. I paid $70 for a F21GM (if FPP is needed).

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  • 4 months later...

I have a local Baofeng user who is unlicensed that gets on my repeater.  I have let him know a license is required but he apparently doesnt understand.  Hes not being an idiot or anything, in fact most of the time he wants to talk to me.  Other than letting him know which I already have, what other ideas do people have?

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He is in clear violation of FCC part95, and you have done your part to notify him. he seems harmless, but your license is at risk if he does something stupid on your repeater. I have recently heard a yacht crew using my repeater during docking, the signal is just strong enough to key the repeater but not effective communication. I have ask that they identify their call sign but since they are fringe I can not tell if they have given call sign. I need/want to communication with them, to know whom they are and make the necessary log entry for my records and to let them know hey have no need to use the repeater for docking since simplex will do just fine.

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I decided long ago to list the repeater as open, its the users responsibility to ID and I turned off my auto ID. I figure what good is a repeater if it sits idle all the time, I built it to cover a huge recreational area and I want people to use it. Unless I get complaints I wont change a thing. I have listened to people tell me about repeaters that sat Idle 95% of the time until they failed, what a waste of money. Between the Helix, Antenna, Climber and repeater gear i have $4500 bucks into it, I rather see it burn up knowing it served people well then die idle in the shack.

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  • 2 weeks later...

This topic is an interesting one for the reason I operate multiple GMRS and Part 90 VHF and UHF repeaters for our regional SAR Teams. Sometimes something as this can also be a learning tool and educational. Many SAR teams have no clue about radios and buy what a "friend" tells them and its normally a CCR. On my team we have multiple members who have a GMRS license and one of my repeaters is hosted by the team. Team members with the license use this to chat when they want. The repeater is also at a large recreational area and is open to the public. Every radio our team owns has the channel in case of a civilian calling for an emergency. Being we operate on multiple formats in our area the repeater is quiet most of the time. I have found internally the repeater has actually been a good way to get folks to buy the GMRS license as a way to talk to the other members who use it. 

 

Lastly as others have said what the sense of having a repeater up with all the costs of a proper install at a tower site just to sit idle. I have invested thousands of dollars on the gear and hope it gets used. If i want privacy we I go to one of my P25 repeaters and run secure if its really important. 

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