TYT TH9000 UHF GMRS REPEATER SETUP?

[WHITETIGER]

I HAVE TWO TH9000 RADIOS WITH THE RT SYSTEMS PROGRAM/MING CABLE AND ILL BE PURCHASING A 6 CAVITY 50 WATT DUPLEXER...I ALSO HAVE A JPOLE WITH THE 4FOOT MILITARY NET POLES AT 20 FEET.. ID LIKE TO CREATE A REPEATER FOR MY AREA.. BESIDES THE EQUIPMENT CAN ANYONE INCLUDE KNOWLEDGABLE STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS FOR THIS SETUP?

 

ALSO, CAN I RAISE THE ANTENNA ABOVE 20 FEET? I WAS LOOKING FOR AN GMRS ANTENNA APPLICATION BUT COULDNT FIND ONE..

 

FROM MY UNDERSTANDING I PLACE TWO RADIOS SIDE BY SIDE OR ABOVE EACHOTHER IN A COOL ENVIRONMENT WIRED INTO THE DUPLEXER, EACH RADIO IS SET AT 5MHZ DEVIATION, I DONT THINK SO BUT IM ALSO NOT SURE, WILL I BE USING THE SAME ANTENNA IN THIS DUPLEX SYSTEM? 

 

 

 

[jvfreetage]

The TYT's are not a bad radio, but they really don't handle high duty cycles too well.  Had a buddy of mine got one cheap, and set it up as a crossband in his house to reach a distant repeater here on the island.  The high duty cycle really got the radio HOT!!  Run the output radio on medium power, or even low. Bearing that in mind, as long as you're not running a radio net through the things, they should do OK.  OF COURSE THIS IS ALL HYPOTHETICAL due to part 95 acceptance yadda yadda yadda....

 

The sure-com controllers are pretty decent, and they have a "plug and play" interface with the TYT, AND DTMF remote kill.  The only thing you should add to the repeater is an identifier.  Radio Tone makes one that will actually wire in line with the sure-coms.  Yep... Plug and play.

 

When you're running your antenna, make sure it's tuned properly.  If you've made a dual band j-pole out of 1/2" copper pipe, unfortunately it's not going to work too well.  Staying with the whole make your own theme, try and make one out of 3/4" or 5/8" copper and the actual radiating part will only be about 2' tall.  Using a thicker pipe will give you a broader frequency coverage.  Make sure you tune the VSWR for the OUTPUT, you can fudge the input.  

 

Now yes you can put the TYT's on top of each other, but if you can space them out some (say a couple of feet or so) you might get a little better performance as well as heat dissipation.

 

I would guess that your range issue is also related to how you have and where you have your j-pole mounted.  I've made a few of them, and learned that any type of grounding to the things will throw off the transmit big time.  Also, they need to be clear of any metal.  So for example, if you mount your j-pole to an aluminium mast, make sure the "j" part is at LEAST 2' above the aluminium pole, and the base of the j-pole is NOT directly attached to the aluminium.  J-poles are great if there's no metal around them, but any metal (when using them on 440) within 2' will throw the whole thing off.  

 

But... Good going.  Experiment Experiment Experiment.  I LOVE building antennas and seeing what I can do with them.  Also, I do like your idea of mounting the antenna in the oak tree.  Just be warned that you'll loose performance in the rain.  Mounting it above your roof line is your best option for performance.  

 

OK... I think I've beat this horse enough.  If you have any other questions just fire them out!!!

 

GOOD LUCK!

 

James

WQUL457

W8JVF/KH6

[MSensei]

§95.51   Antenna height.

(a) Certain antenna structures used in a GMRS system and that are more than 60.96 m (200 ft) in height, or are located near or at a public-use airport must be notified to the FAA and registered with the Commission as required by part 17 of this chapter.

(b )The antenna for a small base station or for a small control station must not be more than 6.1 meters (20 feet) above the ground or above the building or tree on which it is mounted.

[63 FR 68975, Dec. 14, 1998]

 

If I interpret the above correctly, your repeater would fall under §95.51(a) where you have up to 200 ft in which to mount the antenna without having to report the antenna to the FAA and FCC (even though it is good practice to do so anyway).  Subsequently, to me small base station/small control station does not equal repeater.  Even if it is, the statement is 20 ft above the structure OR ground, so if you were to mount in on the roof of your house, for example, you could mount up to 20 ft above your roof line.

 

With regards to repeater setup, if you are going duplex, you would have duplex controller connected to 2 radios where one would be your receive at 467.XXX (where XXX is a number between 550 and 725 in increments of 25) and the other your transmitter at 462.XXX where the XXX is the same as your receive.

 

There are several other factors to take into account such as any other possible repeaters nearby and the frequency they are using, what PL to use, and so on...

There are several strings in this message board to follow on how to setup of which several are very helpful in understanding what factors to take into consideration.

 

-David

[zap]

You need to find the input/output pinouts of the radios. Most of us build mobile based repeaters out of commercial Icom, Kenwood and Motorola gear. The input/output information of that gear is well documented. In you're application, you're going to need a controller of some sort (it can be a ID-O-Matic IV, Commspec ID-8, or some more expensive controllers) to interface between the two radios.

 

Without the pinouts, you'd need two of these:

http://www.409shop.com/409shop_product.php?id=122465

 

And a controller to put it together.

[WHITETIGER]

David thank you!

[WHITETIGER]

Ok,wqrh471, thank you for your help.. have you had any experience with a surecomm controller what would be your thoughts on that configuration? Will that provide realtime transmission ?

[zap]

I've not messed with them. However, some of them are for simplex operation (talk back repeater) and some are for duplex operation.

[WHITETIGER]

Ok I wouldn't mind if anyone else wanted to chime in..thinking of going with surecomm , hoping antenna height will give radios good distance...

 

Would you elaborate antenna height makes a difference? Even if it's a 10-20 foot distance?

 

Could I possibly defeat heavy interference and increase the tx rx distance ?

 

Again thanks a lot!!

[WHITETIGER]

Also , how do I notify the faa without making them panic? Is there a specific phone number for towers? I wouldn't want any medical of sheriff helicopter or any aircraft for that matter to collide with my tower....

[WHITETIGER]

I've not messed with them. However, some of them are for simplex operation (talk back repeater) and some are for duplex operation.

I have used the simplex surecomm it is loud and clear! And very very easy to operate..

[zap]

UHF is mostly a line of sight band. For the most part, if you can see what you're transmitting to, you are pretty much guaranteed success. The greater the height, the greater the vantage point for the repeater's antenna to "see". In most instances, the greater the antenna height, the further the range of the repeater. 

 

As far as towers go, just how high up are you planning on going? What kind of environment is you're repeater going to be installed? The only reason I'd notify the FAA is if you are in an approach path for an airport. Otherwise, it really doesn't make much sense, especially if you're going to keep it below 100 ft.

[WHITETIGER]

well good point im starting to believe it may work...i ran the pole up 20 foot to the peak of the roof and then mounted the antenna.... i have a 40 foot tall tree i am debating on mounting this jpole to which hopefully works well...i have painted it white because of the ho association issue but will furthur camo it by adding light sky blue if it goes up in the tree...i am really hoping it works. the install is in a suburban area of florida with subdivisions stores and homes and condos..we have plenty of old oak trees and pine trees as well as numerous other gargantuan trees...i ran it from the peak with a simplex repeater and literally got a half a mile radius...ridiculous i know but it was basically all i could do to test it out..also had someone else keying me up to test...also tested with handhelds same issue even with using the mobile to relay so the antenna is the final hurdle before i give up on the gmrs and sell it all!

[MSensei]

If you had a need to register an Antenna Structure, you would do so at http://wireless.fcc.gov/antenna/index.htm?job=home.  But as zap said above, it depends upon how high up you're going.  Here are the requirements from the FAA website:

 

14 CFR Part 77.9 states that any person/organization who intends to sponsor any of the following construction or alterations must notify the Administrator of the FAA:

• any construction or alteration exceeding 200 ft above ground level
• any construction or alteration:
  • within 20,000 ft of a public use or military airport which exceeds a 100:1 surface from any point on the runway of each airport with its longest runway more than 3,200 ft
  • within 10,000 ft of a public use or military airport which exceeds a 50:1 surface from any point on the runway of each airport with its longest runway no more than 3,200 ft
  • within 5,000 ft of a public use heliport which exceeds a 25:1 surface
• any highway, railroad or other traverse way whose prescribed adjusted height would exceed the above noted standards
• when requested by the FAA
• any construction or alteration located on a public use airport or heliport regardless of height or location.

[WHITETIGER]

okey dokey ill keep those good facts in mind...i will come back with setup results...

[Guest spd641]

A good bit of your range depends on what type of antenna installation you have.I suggest you get a decent repeater capable antenna and a few other members can recommend those to you.I also strongly suggest at minimal LMR400 feed line since the loss will be minimal compared to RG-8.I would not worry about call the FAA or FCC unless you are planning on installing the antenna above 200 FT.

 

You also need to get a good controller and have it wired to your radio system by someone who has the know how to figure the correct wiring scheme along with having the duplexer tuned by a professional radio shop with the proper equipment to do so.You will not be able to communicate well unless this step is taken along with the good feed line.

 

I wish you luck on getting your GMRS repeater up and running,you had the a few of the basics covered and with the help of others on the forum you should be able to get the advice you need to have a good set up...William

[WHITETIGER]

Spd641 thank you for the kind words..

[WHITETIGER]

A good bit of your range depends on what type of antenna installation you have.I suggest you get a decent repeater capable antenna and a few other members can recommend those to you.I also strongly suggest at minimal LMR400 feed line since the loss will be minimal compared to RG-8.I would not worry about call the FAA or FCC unless you are planning on installing the antenna above 200 FT.

 

You also need to get a good controller and have it wired to your radio system by someone who has the know how to figure the correct wiring scheme along with having the duplexer tuned by a professional radio shop with the proper equipment to do so.You will not be able to communicate well unless this step is taken along with the good feed line.

 

I wish you luck on getting your GMRS repeater up and running,you had the a few of the basics covered and with the help of others on the forum you should be able to get the advice you need to have a good set up...William

 

BTW thank you guys for taking your time to provide input..! Some People who it's taken years to learn all this knowledge would not be very inclined to discuss such details..of course we all know that "radio people" are indeed polite and considerate...at least that is my experiences...so I'd like to express my gratuity to yous guys..

 

Spd641 I actuality was hoping someone would have had experiences with setup of this system with these radios... I read there was a port to the rear of the housing of the tyt radio for a terminal that could easily be installed, but is not inside it....I guess I'll have to discover how on my own and report those facts here...the programming aspect can be tedious routing pl ctcss etc..if I could only get these issues resolved then the fun begins and we'll be enjoying the fruits of our Labour!

 

I was curious to know if any of you knew of scrambler function and if it's a viable option using gmrs?

[zap]

I believe a scrambler would fall under encryption.

[WHITETIGER]

Ok which obviously is not allowed...

[Guest spd641]

BTW thank you guys for taking your time to provide input..! Some People who it's taken years to learn all this knowledge would not be very inclined to discuss such details..of course we all know that "radio people" are indeed polite and considerate...at least that is my experiences...so I'd like to express my gratuity to yous guys..

 

Spd641 I actuality was hoping someone would have had experiences with setup of this system with these radios... I read there was a port to the rear of the housing of the tyt radio for a terminal that could easily be installed, but is not inside it....I guess I'll have to discover how on my own and report those facts here...the programming aspect can be tedious routing pl ctcss etc..if I could only get these issues resolved then the fun begins and we'll be enjoying the fruits of our Labour!

 

I was curious to know if any of you knew of scrambler function and if it's a viable option using gmrs?

 

Sorry taking so long to get back to you.I do not know of anyone off hand who has set these type units up as a repeater,most I know have went the route of using 2 Motorola radios and you get them programmed by someone with the appropriate software and you can add a direct connect cable off eBay for about $10.00 and you are able to have a no frill repeater.According to FCC rules you need a way to control the repeater remotely and a good repeater controller comes in handy.

 

You do not have to spend a fortune on a controller,ID-O-Matic has one that plugs into the radios like the cheap $10.00 jumper but has options to ID remote shut off and add a automatic fan and so one.I am sorry I could not help you with your radio but maybe someone will have the knowledge and know how to help you with your install,have a good week and keep checking back...William

[WHITETIGER]

when i get results ill post back.

[zap]

You really don't have to have a way to remotely disable a GMRS repeater. It's not actually stated in Part 95A like it is in Part 97.

 

That is another thing I like about the 16 pin Motorolas though. You can easily configure them to disable TX based off of the built in signaling.

[zap]

The sure-com controllers are pretty decent, and they have a "plug and play" interface with the TYT, AND DTMF remote kill.  The only thing you should add to the repeater is an identifier.  Radio Tone makes one that will actually wire in line with the sure-coms.  Yep... Plug and play.

 

 

 

Not required to have a IDer for GMRS or for many commercial services for the matter. Personally, I'd keep one off an open repeater (any abuse or misuse that goes through the repeater is your problem because you are technically IDing for the violators). 

 

Mobile radios are mobile radios…most are only built for a 25% duty or less at full power.

[kentuckyradio]

Has anyone done any testing on this TYT 9000 unit? as far as power output on high? I only appear to have about maybe 30 watts output with a dummy load and good wattmeter..

Is anyone seeing that these are varying in power from one unit to the next? I was planning to use it as the transmitter side of our new repeater but my old Motorola seems to have

more power as a 40 watt unit..

 

Would love to hear some real world tests..

Thanks!

Randy.

[zap]

I've noticed some differences in power outputs on some of the Chinese stuff but haven't gotten my hands on the TYT mobiles.

 

Which wattmeter are you using?

[kentuckyradio]

Thanks, It's a Bird.. Just thought it was odd that it was lower than i had expected, considering the coverage for both 25 and 40 watts are very similar with a tiny exception for fringe areas.. I just have had a hard time getting any real world specs from anyone whom has these radios.. it seems to be a fairly common radio for the cost too..

 

Thnx

WQVB250

Randy