Antenna placement

[Guest Brandon]

I recently purchased Midland GXT1030VP4 GMRS hand-helds for my father. He is having difficulty reaching the other radio beyond a certain distance on his property. More recently, I purchased the Midland MXT115; hoping it will help the issue serving as a base station in his house.

I know absolutely nothing about Comms, but my question is, can I mount an antenna in the middle of his property? The middle of his property is the highest point. There’s no power supply, and it is about 1/4 mile from the home where the MXT115 will be. The radios are not able to communicate beyond the middle of the property, due to obstruction (trees and hills).

At the center of the property is a 20’ shooting house with a tin roof. Could an antenna be mounted on top? Could a power source be a battery with trickle charging solar panels? Will the antenna work without being directly connected to a radio? If a radio is required, can a radio be powered from a battery with the trickle charging solar panels inside the shooting house? 

I’m simply trying to figure out a way to get his communication over the hill and to the house. Please forgive my intelligence or the lack there of. I know there’s got to be a way to make this happen. Thanks for your help.

[WyoJoe]

An antenna by itself will not work. It does need to be connected to a radio.

What it sounds like you would want there is a repeater. There are a lot of posts on this forum about repeaters, and much more than I can share in this reply. Basically, though, a repeater repeats (or re-transmits) the signals from one radio to other radios that are in range.

I believe the MXT115 will work with a repeater, but I don't believe the GXT radios will. You would need some other handheld (or mobile) radios that are repeater capable in order to use a repeater.

Anyway, the Retevis RT-97 would probably be a good repeater option for this location. With a good antenna placed on the shooting house, a battery, and a solar panel, it should be essentially self-sufficient.

[wayoverthere]

54 minutes ago, WyoJoe said:

I believe the MXT115 will work with a repeater, but I don't believe the GXT radios will. You would need some other handheld (or mobile) radios that are repeater capable in order to use a repeater.

can confirm the MXT115 can access repeaters, though being narrowband they have a harder time with wideband repeaters, and the older models don't support split tones (different input and output tone).  narrowband repeaters shouldn't be an issue.

the GTX are no go, as they don't have the repeater offsets programmed, and AFAIK, have no provisions for programming. you would be able to listen, though.

[Guest Brandon]

If the GTX radios will not work with the Retevis RT-97, does anyone have any suggestions for handheld radios that will work with the RT-97?

I appreciate everyone’s advice as well.

[wayoverthere]

Retevis has a few models that are repeater capable, and even a kit with the repeater, a mobile, and a couple handhelds, plus antennas and some accessories. https://www.retevis.com/gmrs-solution-kits-gmrs-handheld-mobile-radio-gmrs-repeater-accessories

Outside that, wouxun's recent stuff is pretty well regarded for a little more coin, the kg805g (have one), kg905g, kg935g, and kg-uv9g pro.

[WyoJoe]

32 minutes ago, wayoverthere said:

Retevis has a few models that are repeater capable, and even a kit with the repeater, a mobile, and a couple handhelds, plus antennas and some accessories. https://www.retevis.com/gmrs-solution-kits-gmrs-handheld-mobile-radio-gmrs-repeater-accessories

Outside that, wouxun's recent stuff is pretty well regarded for a little more coin, the kg805g (have one), kg905g, kg935g, and kg-uv9g pro.

I hadn't seen that kit before, but it looks like a pretty good deal. It's not a whole lot more for that package than the standard price of the RT-97 by itself. The only thing missing, from what I could see, is a power supply or battery for the repeater, and programming cables for the radios. While the power supply varies from user to user, and is normally user supplied, the programming cables would be a nice addition to the kit.

I don't have any experience with the radios in the kit, but as for other handheld radios, the Wouxon radios are generally regarded as the better of the new GMRS specific radios that are available, but they do come at a price premium compared to some of the other "CCRs" that are available from Radioddity, Baofeng, Retevis, and others.

There is also the option of purchasing "Land Mobile" (i.e. business band) radios and repurposing them for GMRS. These radios are not specifically type-accepted for GMRS, but under old FCC rules (such as from when the radios were manufactured), could be modified for GMRS use.

There are many threads on this forum about the radios mentioned above, so you'll have to consider a lot of options.

[Guest Brandon]

Good to know. One last question; would purchasing an additional mobile radio (similar to the MXT115), setting it up in the shooting house, on a battery source, charged by solar panels, with a antenna on the roof work? Basically, putting a radio and antenna in the middle of the property simply for power to a antenna. Or do the radios not work like that?

[WyoJoe]

24 minutes ago, Guest Brandon said:

Good to know. One last question; would purchasing an additional mobile radio (similar to the MXT115), setting it up in the shooting house, on a battery source, charged by solar panels, with a antenna on the roof work? Basically, putting a radio and antenna in the middle of the property simply for power to a antenna. Or do the radios not work like that?

Mobile and handheld radios normally need an "operator" to make the radio work. Your idea would work at that location only if someone was there using it. It wouldn't work without someone to operate it. Someone using a mobile radio at the shooting house should be able to reach someone else with a mobile (or handheld) radio elsewhere on the property, provided there aren't significant obstacles between them.

On the other hand, a repeater works automatically, anytime someone keys up the repeater from another radio. Ideally, if the repeater is at the high point of the property, it could reach the whole property, and would allow anyone to communicate from anywhere on the property to any other location on the property.

At my house, I have a repeater set up, and I've used it when I've been on my way home from work to talk to my wife while she was out hiking a couple of miles from the house. This allowed us to communicate over a ridge that prevented us from direct radio to radio communication.

[wayoverthere]

1 hour ago, WyoJoe said:

I hadn't seen that kit before, but it looks like a pretty good deal. It's not a whole lot more for that package than the standard price of the RT-97 by itself. The only thing missing, from what I could see, is a power supply or battery for the repeater, and programming cables for the radios. While the power supply varies from user to user, and is normally user supplied, the programming cables would be a nice addition to the kit.

I don't have any experience with the radios in the kit, but as for other handheld radios, the Wouxon radios are generally regarded as the better of the new GMRS specific radios that are available, but they do come at a price premium compared to some of the other "CCRs" that are available from Radioddity, Baofeng, Retevis, and others.

 

32 minutes ago, Guest Brandon said:

Good to know. One last question; would purchasing an additional mobile radio (similar to the MXT115), setting it up in the shooting house, on a battery source, charged by solar panels, with a antenna on the roof work? Basically, putting a radio and antenna in the middle of the property simply for power to a antenna. Or do the radios not work like that?

 

Joe, On power supply, I'd check with Retevis; I can't see them shipping it without some form of power supply, since it doesn't seem to take 12v directly.

 

Brandon, you could absolutely set up a radio at the house to talk to/from, and someone could manually relay messages, but the mxt115 isn't able to act as a repeater on its own.

 

[WyoJoe]

4 hours ago, wayoverthere said:

Joe, On power supply, I'd check with Retevis; I can't see them shipping it without some form of power supply, since it doesn't seem to take 12v directly.

I guess I should have clarified what I meant by power supply. The RT-97 has a 12V input, and includes a 120V to 12V power supply to provide power from a household outlet. What I meant by power supply was a battery or solar panel, for example, that would provide 12V to the repeater. I guess what I should have said was that the RT-97 doesn't come with a 12V source. The user has to provide a source if not using 120V AC power.

[wayoverthere]

1 hour ago, WyoJoe said:

I guess I should have clarified what I meant by power supply. The RT-97 has a 12V input, and includes a 120V to 12V power supply to provide power from a household outlet. What I meant by power supply was a battery or solar panel, for example, that would provide 12V to the repeater. I guess what I should have said was that the RT-97 doesn't come with a 12V source. The user has to provide a source if not using 120V AC power.

Ahh, yeah, that makes more sense

[Guest Brandon]

14 hours ago, wayoverthere said:

Brandon, you could absolutely set up a radio at the house to talk to/from, and someone could manually relay messages, but the mxt115 isn't able to act as a repeater on its own.

This is the answer I believe I was looking for. So having another MXT115 turned on at all times in the center of the property will not act as a “middle man” between the house and the furthest part of the property. The RT-97 does act as the middle man. 
 

Again, these ideas come from not knowing Comms. I really appreciate everyone’s advice. I just didn’t want to spend $400 on the RT-97 if I could get away with setting up another MXT115 and just leave it powered on all the time. But if it doesn’t work as a middle man, than I guess the RT-97 is what I need to do.

[wayoverthere]

1 hour ago, Guest Brandon said:

This is the answer I believe I was looking for. So having another MXT115 turned on at all times in the center of the property will not act as a “middle man” between the house and the furthest part of the property. The RT-97 does act as the middle man.

Correct. like a handheld, the mxt115 is just a radio, and needs a control operator to be of any use.  The rt97 (or any other repeater) will take the received signal and rebroadcast it.

[Guest Brandon]

Awesome! That is what I needed to know. I guess I will attempt to return the GXT radios and purchase my father some radios that are Repeater Capable. I'll take a look at the Wouxun Radios you both suggested. I'm not looking to drop a ton of money into this equipment; I just need to advise my father what he should be purchasing. The GXT's were a birthday gift and the MXT is a Christmas gift. The point of this chaos is having communication with other hunters on his property so people know when they will be picked up from their locations. I appreciate all the advice and intelligence, Wayoverthere and WyoJoe!