Radio recomendation

[Guest keitht]

I am just beginning to research GMRS radios. I currently use FRS radios on outdoor outings. I live in a fairly remote area in S.E. Mo where we have high hills / low mountains. We hike and travel on the Ozark rivers. I understand some of the limitations of GMRS radios and hills. I do not know what we have here yet in the way of repeaters. I am hoping that with GCRS radios being more powerful, they could at least punch through the trees here better.

All that said, I am a person who likes to buy once and not have to upgrade later. So I like to get the best system I can afford right off the get-go rather than buy something cheap and have to buy something else later. With that said, does anyone have any suggestions for me on what I should do, or what I should purchase in the way of radios???

I plan to get my GMRS license soon.

Thanks for your time.

[WRVD377]

3 hours ago, Guest keitht said:

I am just beginning to research GMRS radios. I currently use FRS radios on outdoor outings. I live in a fairly remote area in S.E. Mo where we have high hills / low mountains. We hike and travel on the Ozark rivers. I understand some of the limitations of GMRS radios and hills. I do not know what we have here yet in the way of repeaters. I am hoping that with GCRS radios being more powerful, they could at least punch through the trees here better.

All that said, I am a person who likes to buy once and not have to upgrade later. So I like to get the best system I can afford right off the get-go rather than buy something cheap and have to buy something else later. With that said, does anyone have any suggestions for me on what I should do, or what I should purchase in the way of radios???

I plan to get my GMRS license soon.

Thanks for your time.

Might I suggest watching some of NotaRubicon Productions - YouTube reviews. It is how I started after my first two items purchased (would not have had I watched his first), and learned there are better options out there. In my mind it is a good beginner, simple review with commentary you may or may not like.  But good general knowledge to base your dollars spent.  Watch for devices that allow you to talk on more than one channel on the same device. Example: 1 ptt on simplex, 1 ptt on repeater channel no flip flopping around if you don't travel far, just push the other button.  Everyone will have a favorite, and many of them are good.

[KAF6045]

5 hours ago, Guest keitht said:

I am just beginning to research GMRS radios. I currently use FRS radios on outdoor outings. I live in a fairly remote area in S.E. Mo where we have high hills / low mountains. We hike and travel on the Ozark rivers. I understand some of the limitations of GMRS radios and hills. I do not know what we have here yet in the way of repeaters. I am hoping that with GCRS radios being more powerful, they could at least punch through the trees here better.

Unfortunately, UHF is more affected by vegetation than VHF. You may actually find that 2W MURS radios (same power output as /now/ permitted for FRS) gets through the trees somewhat better.

VHF is less effective in cities -- the wavelength involved tends to be "screened" by things like window and door frames, while shorter UHF penetrates (one reason cell-phones keep going up into the microwave region, and public service is moving into the 900MHz range).

MURS is also no-license required, but only has five frequencies/channels, and no repeaters.

[WRUE951]

I would recomend playing around with the Baofeng Handheld UVB9R  to get an idea for your needs..  You can pick these up on Amazon for about $25-$40. They are not necessary legal for GMRS use but everyone and their uncle use them..    

 

 

[jbkalla]

I'm a huge fan of superheterodyne receivers, so I like some of the Wouxun products.

Even though it's not a superhet product, lots of people like the Wouxun KG-935G+.  I really like its interface and it's easy to use.

I'm also a fan of the KG-905G series for simpler, less-expensive radios, as well as the KG-916.  The KG-805G is even less expensive and still has the superhet receiver.

[JoCoBrian]

Newb here too...the NotaRubicon videos on YouTube are fun to watch and full of good info.  Based on those and other recommendations here, I have settled on the Wouxon KG-S88G for my wife and I for HT's.  Still haven't figured out the base station setup yet...I did not realize that at UHF, line loss is such a huge factor (I'm an HF guy on the amateur bands, with little to no experience with UHF), so lots to think about when it comes to feedline and where the radio will be located in conjunction with the antenna. 

[jbkalla]

5 minutes ago, JoCoBrian said:

Newb here too...the NotaRubicon videos on YouTube are fun to watch and full of good info.  Based on those and other recommendations here, I have settled on the Wouxon KG-S88G for my wife and I for HT's...

That's a good choice as well.  I like the waterproofing and the superhet receiver, as well as the colors (mine is orange!).  Not a fan of the small display, but it works super-well in rough conditions!  I keep it in my car along with the charger just in case.

[bd348]

8 hours ago, JoCoBrian said:

I have settled on the Wouxon KG-S88G for my wife and I for HT's.  Still haven't figured out the base station setup yet

For now, for a base station I use my KG-S88G with a base antenna and a speaker mike.  The antenna is in a 2nd story window, fed by 10' of RG8 plus 18" of adapter cable.  Once the antenna is positioned nicely everything works really well.  In fact I was able to hit a repeater at 30 miles using just the low power .5W setting, although with some static.  At 5W it's great.

[JoCoBrian]

1 hour ago, bd348 said:

For now, for a base station I use my KG-S88G with a base antenna and a speaker mike.  

What are you using for a base antenna and about how far as the eagle flies are you from the repeater?  If I put my antenna at one end of the house, my feedline run is going to be about 40 feet...lossy...  was thinking about putting the antenna in the attic right above my radio room/office/den then the feedline would be more like 12-15 feet...BUT IT WOULD BE IN the attic.  Long time ham radio dude but never have I ever done anything with UHF...learning lots. 

[KAF6045]

3 hours ago, JoCoBrian said:

What are you using for a base antenna and about how far as the eagle flies are you from the repeater?  If I put my antenna at one end of the house, my feedline run is going to be about 40 feet...lossy...  was thinking about putting the antenna in the attic right above my radio room/office/den then the feedline would be more like 12-15 feet...BUT IT WOULD BE IN the attic.  Long time ham radio dude but never have I ever done anything with UHF...learning lots. 

What is the roof itself made of? Are there any metal conduits/duct-work nearby (especially the latter -- you can probably avoid conduits okay)?

I basically am living in a Faraday cage -- metal roof and aluminum siding.

[wrci350]

3 hours ago, JoCoBrian said:

If I put my antenna at one end of the house, my feedline run is going to be about 40 feet...lossy...  was thinking about putting the antenna in the attic right above my radio room/office/den then the feedline would be more like 12-15 feet...BUT IT WOULD BE IN the attic.  

https://www.qsl.net/co8tw/Coax_Calculator.htm

Handy if you don't already have one bookmarked.

If it were me, I would get 40 or 50 feet of LMR400 and put the antenna on the end of the house.  Getting your antenna outside and up higher will more than likely offset any loss of power due to the longer coax run.  But get *good* coax.

[bd348]

5 hours ago, JoCoBrian said:

What are you using for a base antenna and about how far as the eagle flies are you from the repeater?

I hope to move the antenna to the attic some day, but for now it's a 43" or so fiberglass encased antenna. 3dbd gain, on a little stand next to the window in the same room as the radio.  30 to 35 miles to the repeater, good audio reports with 5W.  For the antenna, I chose one with an N-female connector, and premade RG8 coax with N to 259 at each end, and a little 18" 259 to SMA adapter cable.  I got a cheaper brand of antenna but probably should have gotten a more expensive version for better internal connections.

Really, you might do just fine with a short coax to the antenna in the same room instead of going across the house to gain 5' of height.  You also don't have to worry about grounding and weather and mounting.  And the exact antenna placement matters.  In a busy suburban area, a few inches left or right makes a big difference due to multipath.  Easier to adjust if the antenna is indoors.

[JoCoBrian]

9 hours ago, KAF6045 said:

What is the roof itself made of? Are there any metal conduits/duct-work nearby (especially the latter -- you can probably avoid conduits okay)?

I basically am living in a Faraday cage -- metal roof and aluminum siding.

Standard wood and asphalt shingles.  I have a HF dipole up there since 1998...but UHF is a different animal I am finding out.  No metal duct work. House was built in 94 or 95 so they used flex pipe for all the ceiling mounted vents.  Brick and Vinyl.  

[JoCoBrian]

9 hours ago, wrci350 said:

https://www.qsl.net/co8tw/Coax_Calculator.htm

Handy if you don't already have one bookmarked.

If it were me, I would get 40 or 50 feet of LMR400 and put the antenna on the end of the house.  Getting your antenna outside and up higher will more than likely offset any loss of power due to the longer coax run.  But get *good* coax.

I have worked with LMR400 a little bit.... is it all stiff and and non flexible or do they make some that's more flexible?   If I put up a omni direction antenna on the west end of my house, I can probably cut the feedline to maybe 30 feet.  

[jbkalla]

You could probably use LMR240, which is more flexible and has a smaller outer diameter, but has maybe double the loss.  Still way better than RG-58, and at 30-35ft, the loss difference might not be high enough to worry about.

But I have no hands-on experience with either.  I'm sure somebody else here does.

[wrci350]

30 minutes ago, JoCoBrian said:

I have worked with LMR400 a little bit.... is it all stiff and and non flexible or do they make some that's more flexible?   If I put up a omni direction antenna on the west end of my house, I can probably cut the feedline to maybe 30 feet.  

Sorry I should have said LMR-400UF.  Very easy to work with.  I think there is slightly more loss, but that's a fair trade-off for the flexibility.

There are a number of good sources for coax but I prefer The Antenna Farm.  They have pre-made cables in several lengths or you can custom order the exact length you need.

https://theantennafarm.com/shop-by-categories/coaxial-cable/coaxial-cable/prefabricated-coax-cable-assemblies

Select "RG8" then the connectors you need and LMR-400UF is under there.

[JoCoBrian]

32 minutes ago, wrci350 said:

Sorry I should have said LMR-400UF.  Very easy to work with.  I think there is slightly more loss, but that's a fair trade-off for the flexibility.

There are a number of good sources for coax but I prefer The Antenna Farm.  They have pre-made cables in several lengths or you can custom order the exact length you need.

https://theantennafarm.com/shop-by-categories/coaxial-cable/coaxial-cable/prefabricated-coax-cable-assemblies

Select "RG8" then the connectors you need and LMR-400UF is under there.

So...LMR400UF is the same as RG8? 

[wrci350]

3 minutes ago, JoCoBrian said:

So...LMR400UF is the same as RG8? 

LMR-400UF is one variety of RG8, as are LMR-400 and Belden 9913 and others.

It's like "All beagles are dogs, but not all dogs are beagles".  

[SteveShannon]

The differences between RG8 and LMR400 are fairly great. In fact their similarities are fewer than their differences. They share the same outside diameter. They are both 50 ohm coax cable.  

Heres a website that discusses the differences.

https://www.utmel.com/components/rg8-vs-lmr400-faq-differentiate-the-differences-between-them?id=1969#cat6

[wrci350]

Apparently The Antenna Farm is going by cable diameter.

In any event, they list LMR-400UF under RG8.  Right or wrong; that's where it is.

[SteveShannon]

26 minutes ago, wrci350 said:

Apparently The Antenna Farm is going by cable diameter.

In any event, they list LMR-400UF under RG8.  Right or wrong; that's where it is.

I can kind of understand why.  LMR400 is generally marketed as a drop in replacement for RG8.  In most aspects it could be considered an upgrade. I can also see your reasoning in considering LMR400 to be a subset of RG8.