Linking GMRS resources

[WRTE806]

At http://kc5fm.blogspot.com/2023/09/linking-gmrs-repeaters-gmrs.html?m=1, the Author posted that linking GMRS repeaters is not permitted by FCC rules.

 

 

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[SteveShannon]

This has been discussed multiple times in the past.  The rules don't really say that and quoting someone from a blog don't make it so.

[WRQC527]

29 minutes ago, WRTE806 said:

At http://kc5fm.blogspot.com/2023/09/linking-gmrs-repeaters-gmrs.html?m=1, the Author posted that linking GMRS repeaters is not permitted by FCC rules.

 

This sounds like one of those "stirring the pot" traps we see so often here. 

[wrci350]

Go read the blog entry and decide for yourself.  Note this change to 95 E, which is referenced in the letter posted on that blog:

§ 95.1749 GMRS network connection.

Operation of a GMRS station with a telephone connection is prohibited, as in § 95.349. GMRS repeater, base and fixed stations, however, may be connected to the public switched network or other networks for the sole purpose of operation by remote control pursuant to § 95.1745.

Note that it says "may be connected to ... other networks for the sole purpose of operation by remote control ..."

Remote control means things like turning the repeater on or off, changing the power level or tones, etc.

My interpretation of that is, "You can hook your repeater up to the Internet, but only for remote control".  In other words, not to link it to other repeaters for voice traffic.

[WRQC527]

34 minutes ago, wrci350 said:

Go read the blog entry and decide for yourself.  Note this change to 95 E, which is referenced in the letter posted on that blog:

§ 95.1749 GMRS network connection.

Operation of a GMRS station with a telephone connection is prohibited, as in § 95.349. GMRS repeater, base and fixed stations, however, may be connected to the public switched network or other networks for the sole purpose of operation by remote control pursuant to § 95.1745.

Note that it says "may be connected to ... other networks for the sole purpose of operation by remote control ..."

Remote control means things like turning the repeater on or off, changing the power level or tones, etc.

My interpretation of that is, "You can hook your repeater up to the Internet, but only for remote control".  In other words, not to link it to other repeaters for voice traffic.

I knew it. A "stirring the pot" trap.

[SteveShannon]

31 minutes ago, wrci350 said:

Go read the blog entry and decide for yourself.  Note this change to 95 E, which is referenced in the letter posted on that blog:

§ 95.1749 GMRS network connection.

Operation of a GMRS station with a telephone connection is prohibited, as in § 95.349. GMRS repeater, base and fixed stations, however, may be connected to the public switched network or other networks for the sole purpose of operation by remote control pursuant to § 95.1745.

Note that it says "may be connected to ... other networks for the sole purpose of operation by remote control ..."

Remote control means things like turning the repeater on or off, changing the power level or tones, etc.

My interpretation of that is, "You can hook your repeater up to the Internet, but only for remote control".  In other words, not to link it to other repeaters for voice traffic.

I'm well aware of the wording and what it says about connections to networks.  That doesn't say a repeater cannot be linked to other repeaters and I believe that linking repeaters together so that what is received by one repeater is transmitted by another is a form of remote control.  

[WRCQ487]

So another interpretation from someone at the FCC that really does not know. 

 

"We do not believe this permits using various networks to carry GMRS user traffic or communications."

[WRQC527]

[SteveShannon]

4 minutes ago, WRCQ487 said:

So another interpretation from someone at the FCC that really does not know. 

 

"We do not believe this permits using various networks to carry GMRS user traffic or communications."

Also "While the rules previous only outlined a prohibition of GMRS communications on the PSTN, this language was recently updated to include "other networks" more generically to address a range of other technologies (internet, cellular networks…)."

In other words, FCC changed the rules.  How can they do that without an NPRM?  Those of you with linked repeaters might want to speak to your representatives.

[ULTRA2]

Ok 

 

Here's my thought doesn't nodes connected to GMRS repeaters count as illegal operation also?  They're connected to the GMRS network, but it's deemed legal to do so.

[wrci350]

41 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

In other words, FCC changed the rules.  How can they do that without an NPRM?  Those of you with linked repeaters might want to speak to your representatives.

Yes, that was the point I was trying to make.

I don't think they changed the rules.  I think they *clarified* that rule.

[wrci350]

1 hour ago, WRQC527 said:

I knew it. A "stirring the pot" trap.

Nope.  The wording of the rule has been changed.

[WRQC527]

7 minutes ago, wrci350 said:

Nope.  The wording of the rule has been changed.

[WRTE806]

This has been discussed multiple times in the past.  The rules don't really say that and quoting someone from a blog don't make it so.

I’ve not seen it multiple times and it’s my blog.

73

Lloyd


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[WRQC527]

11 minutes ago, WRTE806 said:

11 minutes ago, WRTE806 said:

I’ve not seen it multiple times and it’s my blog.

 

Let me ask you this. What is your reason for posting this in the first place? What is your end game, so to speak?

[WRTE806]

Let me ask you this. What is your reason for posting this in the first place? What is your end game, so to speak?

My end game is to prove to me that linking is allowed.

So far, all I have found is that the FCC says it is not but no one has shown me the FCC rule that says it is allowed for anything but remote control (not carrying voice communications).

It’s a simple yes or no.

I have not dog in the fight except there are a number of systems (not saying which ones because you’re smart enough to figure them out) that link on a number of platforms (won’t say which ones because y’all are smart enough to figure them out).

I am not a troll. I’m a user just like some of you. I’ve not reported the systems to FCC. The verdict is still out, in my mind, because how can you allow remote control, ex. using Touchtone™ which is an audio tone without, de facto, enabling voice communication?

I see the value in GMRS linking over networks but my license (including other FCC issued ones) is at jeopardy, if I, ex. set up a repeater and link it to yours.

Some of y’all are pretty quick to jump to conclusions.

Simple questions and comments generally are better answered without accusations.

73


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[WRQC527]

9 minutes ago, WRTE806 said:

My end game is to prove to me that linking is allowed.

For the record, no one needs to prove anything.

[WRTE806]

Then you have no need to reply.

73


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[tweiss3]

Who says linking requires internet or telephone connection?

[SteveShannon]

2 hours ago, wrci350 said:

Yes, that was the point I was trying to make.

I don't think they changed the rules.  I think they *clarified* that rule.

If they "clarified" it to mean something other than what the rule originally said, then they changed the rule.  If they can show that their clarification didn't change the rule and that other interpretations were incorrect, then I appreciate the clarification.

[WRUU653]

[SteveShannon]

45 minutes ago, WRTE806 said:

My end game is to prove to me that linking is allowed.

So far, all I have found is that the FCC says it is not but no one has shown me the FCC rule that says it is allowed for anything but remote control (not carrying voice communications).

It’s a simple yes or no.

I have not dog in the fight except there are a number of systems (not saying which ones because you’re smart enough to figure them out) that link on a number of platforms (won’t say which ones because y’all are smart enough to figure them out).

I am not a troll. I’m a user just like some of you. I’ve not reported the systems to FCC. The verdict is still out, in my mind, because how can you allow remote control, ex. using Touchtone which is an audio tone without, de facto, enabling voice communication?

I see the value in GMRS linking over networks but my license (including other FCC issued ones) is at jeopardy, if I, ex. set up a repeater and link it to yours.

Some of y’all are pretty quick to jump to conclusions.

Simple questions and comments generally are better answered without accusations.

73


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The problem I have is that you keep saying "linking" is prohibited.  The regulation only says "connecting to a network other than for control purposes" is prohibited.  Although a network is the most likely (and easiest) way people would link repeater, it's not the only way.  Two repeaters could be directly connected (linked) which would not involve a network.

Also, the fact that probably hundreds of GMRS repeaters are linked, using the internet, and FCC has done nothing about it, including no "do-better" letters, makes me think it's a tempest in a teapot.

[WRQC527]

1 hour ago, WRTE806 said:

My end game is to prove to me that linking is allowed.

What you are demanding is to prove to you that something that is not against any known rules is allowed, like making a u-turn where there is no sign or ordinance prohibiting it. There are countless linked GMRS repeaters across the country. Ask them. 

[WRTE806]

What you are demanding is to prove to you that something that is not against any known rules is allowed, like making a u-turn where there is no sign or ordinance prohibiting it. There are countless linked GMRS repeaters across the country. Ask them. 

I was hoping some of the “internet connected” folks would share some insight.

Thanks

73


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[SteveShannon]

28 minutes ago, WRTE806 said:

I was hoping some of the “internet connected” folks would share some insight.

Thanks

73


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They have before.  Probably none of them wish to rehash this: