Retevis RT97S Repeater

[LeoG]

Got a pair of Tidradio TD-H3's a short while back and I'm pretty pleased with them  Still haven't really tried them out a great deal.  Wife took a walk with them to the park which was about 1/3rd mile away and they did well.  Still, new toys to play with. 

There is a repeater about 6 miles from me that I can connect with, it's open which is nice.  But it's still kind of far for the HTs to sound good.  I decided to look into a repeater for myself just for something local.  There is nothing nearby.  I found the RT97 and started looking into it.  It's a compact package with a somewhat low wattage transmitter.  But it's pretty inexpensive and an all in one.  Looking around I found it had been updated and now sports a DB9 connector that a microphone will interface with so it can also be a base station.  The DB9 can also be used to interface with a computer or other hardware such as a Auto ID.

I've had the RT97S for a few days but the antenna I got in the kit got separated by the Memorial day holiday as DHL doesn't do weekends and I'm sure doesn't do holidays.  I ordered a Nagoya UT-72G Mobile antenna that I could get here quick so I could play.

The programming is slightly different from the RT97.  With the RT97 you use the power DIN connector to interface with the computer.  And all of the videos I saw with the newer RT97S also showed the same thing.  But when I got my unit it came with a USB to DB9 connector for programming.  The instruction booklet is absolutely worthless as it doesn't mention how to program, what software to use, where to get the software or the sequence to program.  All the videos I've see you plug the USB/DIN connectors into your computer and the repeater, fire up the program and the repeater takes power from the computers USB port to power the chip in the repeater.

So this is what I did except plugging into the DB9 connector.  No joy, the program wouldn't read the repeater so I couldn't even get started.  Tried several times with no luck.  So I decided to plug the repeater in by using the power supply and the DIN connector.  Well that did it.  Got my repeater programmed to what I wanted.  It was setup with all 8 channels on high power, narrow band and PL encoded for 136.5Hz.

So finally today I got my Surecom SW-102 SWR meter so I could make sure the antenna was OK and check the power output.  The Nagoya seems to be tuned much closer to 467.5Mhz as I got a near perfect SWR, a 1.01 when I was using my TD-H3 transmitting on RPT1.  When I hooked it up to the repeater I got a 1.28 SWR after moving it around on my truck to various spots.  Settled on the center of the roof.  I was also able to get 6.25 watts out of the duplexer.  I guess I got one made on Tuesday morning before lunch LOL

I wasn't able to do a real test of the repeater as of yet because the wife is away right now and the neighbor I am friendly with wasn't around.  So best I was able to do was to walk around my neighborhood and use my call sign and repeater test so I could hear the squelch tail.  I live in a crowded somewhat hilly area.  The antenna was only 6' off the ground and the direction I walked in put it behind my aluminum sided house.  All pretty poor conditions for testing.  But off I went anyway.  The farthest I walked was 2850 ft from the repeater but of course lots of houses, trees in the way because the antenna was essentially on the ground.  I was always able to connect with the repeater.

I have the antenna coming from Retevis and it's a fiberglass antenna, it didn't state what model number.  The cable came in the repeater box and it's a disappointing RG58/U cable so I ordered some LMR400 and that won't be here til next week.

I have one of two spots for the antenna.  On my house chimney sharing a cell phone antenna mast that I have up already.  Or at my wood shop with the same situation, a cell phone antenna on a mast.  The house ground elevation is 62' and the shop is 162'.  But the shop is also 2 miles from my house and I'm not sure how effective that'll be for covering the area near me. 

Not much of a review, for now.  As I learn more about it I'll post it here.

[Socalgmrs]

So why did you need a repeater in the first place?   Seams like a base station would have worked just fine.  Seams like you’re only trying to connect point a to point b not 3 or more points. Plus for a repeater or base to really work well and be worth the money you need to get a good antenna up as high as possible. Yes a mag mount will work but again why waste all the time money and head ache when a $100 base station would have done the same job.  I’d even venture the mag mount up high hooked to your hand held would have worked also.   Did you upgrade the antenna on the ht first?  Seams like you are some place that has loads of interference such as a city with many homes and buildings or dense woods because 1/3 of a mile is nothing.  An ht at 5w should do several miles to 30+miles.  460mhz is very much line of sight and no amount of watts, repeaters, or base stations is going to change that. Sounds like there is a misunderstanding about what a repeater does and when it’s needed. 

[SteveShannon]

8 hours ago, LeoG said:

Got a pair of Tidradio TD-H3's a short while back and I'm pretty pleased with them  Still haven't really tried them out a great deal.  Wife took a walk with them to the park which was about 1/3rd mile away and they did well.  Still, new toys to play with. 

There is a repeater about 6 miles from me that I can connect with, it's open which is nice.  But it's still kind of far for the HTs to sound good.  I decided to look into a repeater for myself just for something local.  There is nothing nearby.  I found the RT97 and started looking into it.  It's a compact package with a somewhat low wattage transmitter.  But it's pretty inexpensive and an all in one.  Looking around I found it had been updated and now sports a DB9 connector that a microphone will interface with so it can also be a base station.  The DB9 can also be used to interface with a computer or other hardware such as a Auto ID.

I've had the RT97S for a few days but the antenna I got in the kit got separated by the Memorial day holiday as DHL doesn't do weekends and I'm sure doesn't do holidays.  I ordered a Nagoya UT-72G Mobile antenna that I could get here quick so I could play.

The programming is slightly different from the RT97.  With the RT97 you use the power DIN connector to interface with the computer.  And all of the videos I saw with the newer RT97S also showed the same thing.  But when I got my unit it came with a USB to DB9 connector for programming.  The instruction booklet is absolutely worthless as it doesn't mention how to program, what software to use, where to get the software or the sequence to program.  All the videos I've see you plug the USB/DIN connectors into your computer and the repeater, fire up the program and the repeater takes power from the computers USB port to power the chip in the repeater.

So this is what I did except plugging into the DB9 connector.  No joy, the program wouldn't read the repeater so I couldn't even get started.  Tried several times with no luck.  So I decided to plug the repeater in by using the power supply and the DIN connector.  Well that did it.  Got my repeater programmed to what I wanted.  It was setup with all 8 channels on high power, narrow band and PL encoded for 136.5Hz.

So finally today I got my Surecom SW-102 SWR meter so I could make sure the antenna was OK and check the power output.  The Nagoya seems to be tuned much closer to 467.5Mhz as I got a near perfect SWR, a 1.01 when I was using my TD-H3 transmitting on RPT1.  When I hooked it up to the repeater I got a 1.28 SWR after moving it around on my truck to various spots.  Settled on the center of the roof.  I was also able to get 6.25 watts out of the duplexer.  I guess I got one made on Tuesday morning before lunch LOL

I wasn't able to do a real test of the repeater as of yet because the wife is away right now and the neighbor I am friendly with wasn't around.  So best I was able to do was to walk around my neighborhood and use my call sign and repeater test so I could hear the squelch tail.  I live in a crowded somewhat hilly area.  The antenna was only 6' off the ground and the direction I walked in put it behind my aluminum sided house.  All pretty poor conditions for testing.  But off I went anyway.  The farthest I walked was 2850 ft from the repeater but of course lots of houses, trees in the way because the antenna was essentially on the ground.  I was always able to connect with the repeater.

I have the antenna coming from Retevis and it's a fiberglass antenna, it didn't state what model number.  The cable came in the repeater box and it's a disappointing RG58/U cable so I ordered some LMR400 and that won't be here til next week.

I have one of two spots for the antenna.  On my house chimney sharing a cell phone antenna mast that I have up already.  Or at my wood shop with the same situation, a cell phone antenna on a mast.  The house ground elevation is 62' and the shop is 162'.  But the shop is also 2 miles from my house and I'm not sure how effective that'll be for covering the area near me. 

Not much of a review, for now.  As I learn more about it I'll post it here.

Welcome, Leo. Nice review.  I suspect you’ll find that you seldom use it as a base station and instead just use your handheld radios to talk through it to other radios. That’s an ideal use for a personal repeater.  Let us know which location you decide on and how it works.

And feel free to disregard wrxp381’s negative comments. Most of us do.

 

[LeoG]

2 hours ago, WRXP381 said:

So why did you need a repeater in the first place?   Seams like a base station would have worked just fine.  Seams like you’re only trying to connect point a to point b not 3 or more points. Plus for a repeater or base to really work well and be worth the money you need to get a good antenna up as high as possible. Yes a mag mount will work but again why waste all the time money and head ache when a $100 base station would have done the same job.  I’d even venture the mag mount up high hooked to your hand held would have worked also.   Did you upgrade the antenna on the ht first?  Seams like you are some place that has loads of interference such as a city with many homes and buildings or dense woods because 1/3 of a mile is nothing.  An ht at 5w should do several miles to 30+miles.  460mhz is very much line of sight and no amount of watts, repeaters, or base stations is going to change that. Sounds like there is a misunderstanding about what a repeater does and when it’s needed. 

Mostly just screwing around.  There is no repeater in my local area and it's not like it's a lot of money to put out to have some fun.  Hoping I can convince some of my friends and neighbors to join in on the fun.  It's kinda hilly over here and I live by the river so I'm already in a low spot.  I'd like to be able to communicate with the wife from the shop which is about 2 miles away and then with my buddy in his wood shop which is 2 miles away in the opposite direction and he will be about 10' above sea level. 

I know all about the restrictions of line of sight which is part of the challenge to overcome in my area.  It's more of a toy for me at this point.  And at anytime when I finally get my antenna up if I find the repeater doesn't work out I can put in a 50w base station.

[LeoG]

32 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Welcome, Leo. Nice review.  I suspect you’ll find that you seldom use it as a base station and instead just use your handheld radios to talk through it to other radios. That’s an ideal use for a personal repeater.  Let us know which location you decide on and how it works.

And feel free to disregard wrxp381’s negative comments. Most of us do.

 

Well there are some people who can only think in big, commercial ways.  If you are putting up a repeater it has to be on a 60' pole up on top of some mountain.  And while I'd love to do that I'm not in mountainous territory and I don't really want to spend lots of money putting up that type of equipment for something that may end up just being a dead end hobby.  I got the 2 talkies for my birthday.  I asked for them.  Normally I ask for tools for my woodshop and my family kinda frowns on that because they think I work too much (I do).  So this time around I decided to just get something that I can play with and tinker around.  I'm not trying to be this big community member and solve everyones repeater problems.  I'm doing it so I can communicate with my family and friends and just have something different to do that doesn't involve wood working.

[LeoG]

Since I need a place to store all this stuff I put it into a box.  Harbor Freight to the rescue and got one of their Apache boxes.  Really wanted the orange...  But figured this would be much better to keep it out of view instead of screaming here I am.  Storage/camping/bug out box, call it what you will - it keeps things organized.

 

[LeoG]

Well I did an experiment.  I'm still waiting on the base antenna to come, probably tomorrow.  I put the mobile antenna up on the top of the metal building which is about 26' off the ground which is at 162' ground elevation.  Lots of trees everywhere.  Be pretty tough to get above them without going up 75' or more.

Had a small issue with the repeater.  It changed its PL tone.  I had it on 100hz and I couldn't connect.  I used a different channel that I programmed and it worked.  SWR of about 1.3 and 6.04 watts out with the setup.  Turns out it flipped to 67hz.  When I read it with the program, it said 100hz but wouldn't connect.  I rewrote it and it was back to 100hz.

I started heading home (east), which is 2 miles by road and probably pretty close as the crow flies (1.9m).  I got as far as 1.3 miles and no more hookup.  Mind you I'm in my truck using a handheld with the OEM antenna inside the truck.

Came back up on the next road over (south then west) and it hooked back up pretty much at the same road I lost it at, 1.35 miles.

So I got up past the shop and headed north and got 2.2 miles when it quit.  Went around those roads and it never hooked up again til I got 1.4 miles away pretty much at the same road that goes east west.

So it's a puny little 19" antenna with no gain.  On the wrong side of the building it looks like.  IF I decide to put the bigger antenna on the shop I'm not sure if it'll reach the house because of the hills and trees.  The antenna is about 5' tall so it's not that hard to put up and take down.  It's easier to do it at the shop than my house.

[LeoG]

Here is the building I placed the antenna on, the circle showing the position.  This picture is from a while ago when I installed the cell phone antenna.

This is the mobile antenna I put up there.

 

The plan is to put the antenna on the mast at the top.  I have a foot of mast that I didn't use and plan on pushing it up while lowering the cell antenna about the same amount.

When the repeater was operational I did interference tests on the cell phone signal and saw nothing.

[LeoG]

I got the antenna today that was included in the repeater kit I bought. I have no idea what model number it is.  It is a fiberglass version.  I did pose the question to Retevis about the model number.  I did some limited testing with it. I used a squeeze clamp and attached it to one of the boxes on my truck. SWR was nearly perfect at 1.01. I was able to put 6.4 watts into the antenna from my repeater.

I took a walk about and got about 5000 ft from the house. Felt like more . I needed to go one more block to get to 1.3 miles which was where my other test with my mobile antenna dropped out. I have all confidence that it would have made it. 

But the situation was much different. The antenna wasn't 30 feet in the air like the mobile antenna was. It was 6' off the ground and the 1st thing it had to contend with is a house wrapped in aluminum siding and then a small hill. Much better antenna, obviously.

So soon I'll put it on the shop and see what happens. If I'm not happy it'll go on the house so I can have the strong signal in my neighborhood.

 

[LeoG]

According to Retevis I have the MA-09 antenna https://www.retevis.com/ma09-high-gain-gmrs-omni-directional-base-antenna-us

[warthog74]

Great write up. The only thing i would suggest (living in a heavily wooded area just outside of town myself) is to get that base antenna as high as possible. 30' might not get you very far. I had my repeater at 30' with subpar to OK results. Over the weekend i got it up to 50' and man what a difference. I used a 30' aluminum flag pole as the base, then attached 20' of 1" aluminum electrical conduit to that, and mounted the whole thing to the back side of my garage. I now easily get 10 miles out of it. Not too shabby for a 2 watt solar powered neighborhood repeater. Have fun with your new hobby!

[Borage257]

Is that 50’ mast guyed, if not how’s it holding up?

[LeoG]

That thing is up there.  Not sure if I could get away with that.  It's not my building, just a lifetime renter.  And I don't think I'd want it up that high at the house.  I can dream though, can't I?

[warthog74]

3 hours ago, Borage257 said:

Is that 50’ mast guyed, if not how’s it holding up?

No it is not. We had some good storms over the weekend and it held up fine. Minimal sway at the top. It probably helps that it's all aluminum and the antenna is a copper J-Pole that weighs 1.5 lbs. So the whole thing might weigh 35lbs and is not top heavy. I lifted it up there by myself. I buried the flag pole 6 inches down, and drilled the mounts in to the studs of the garage. It's solid.

[WRZD886]

I was in the process of building my pole like yours and we had error in judgement. Our pole fell down the next day after adjusting the wires to hold it up. 

 

We used the fence top poles with the nipple to put them together. Well, we used a lift to raise the pole section at a time. but now it is not available. 

My question is, how did you get the poles raised to 50 feet? 

This was my next idea how to get it raised, 

 

If you have a better way and would be willing to share that would be great.

 

WRZD886

Mr Close

 

 

[warthog74]

That's way more expensive and involved than mine. Lol. The long and short of it.... I put mine together on the ground and lifted it all as 1 solid piece. I cut the top off the 30' flag pole (3" at the bottom that tapers to 2" at the top). I then slid the first 10' section of 1" electrical conduit about 8" in and drilled through both and used 1 1/2" metal screws to secure them together. Then i used a clamp like they show in your video to attach the last 10' pole. I also drilled through that clamp and added a few screws to help secure it even more. I then wrapped all those connections good with Gorilla tape. Then i mounted the j-pole, ran my LMR-400 and zip tied it all in place.

The hard part. Being a holiday weekend nobody was around to help. So i grabbed my extension ladder, propped it up against the garage, and pulled the whole 50' mast up little by little until i had about 20 feet resting on the roof edge. Grabbed another ladder and climbed up on the garage and lifted and pulled until it was 90% erect. Got off the garage and lifted the rest of it up and in to the base of the mounts. From there it was just tighten up the mounts, fill my hole for the base and done.

Probably not the best way to do it, but it worked for me, and is budget friendly.

[WRXB215]

@warthog74 Good thing you didn't have to worry about OSHA. 

[warthog74]

4 hours ago, LeoG said:

And I don't think I'd want it up that high at the house

You could always use the flag pole idea. Just put one up in your yard, attach a 5 foot mast to the top, add your 5 foot antenna to it and it'll be up about 40 feet. Now attach the flag. Nobody will really notice its "hidden purpose". 

Edit: They even make telescopic flag poles. Easy up, easy down.

[LeoG]

I have a clothes line pole in my backyard.  The coax might be a killer.  Have to look up flagpole pricing.  The shop height is 26' to the top of the roof and I have 4-5' above that for now. 

[Borage257]

My mast is only 30’, made out of 3 sections of chainlink top rail.

[SteveShannon]

6 minutes ago, Borage257 said:

My mast is only 30’, made out of 3 sections of chainlink top rail.

Did you bolt them together somehow to reduce movement of the joints?

[Borage257]

52 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Did you bolt them together somehow to reduce movement of the joints?

2 pairs of 1/4” sheet metal screws 90 degrees from each other. 

[LeoG]

Well color me impressed.  I did a very jerry rig on the Retevis MA-09 antenna just for receiving even thought I did transmit a bit.

 

My 1st try was with my mobile antenna on the roof 26' off the ground.  It made it 1.3 miles before it quit.  The 2nd try with the new antenna only 3' off the ground I was able to make it about 100' before my house 2 miles.  Only because the house is on a hill.  And it's only about 15' down from the top of the hill.  I was able to hit the repeater with the TD-H3 (4 watts) with the OEM antenna which isn't that great.

So I'm still using the RG58/U (50') so effective radiating power is about  11.8 watts which is a far cry from the LMR400 that will be on the system when I set it up for real, 24.5 EFP and the antenna will be 30+ feet off the ground.

[Borage257]

I get about 8 miles (to a HT/mobile) from my tram1480 at 30’ in Longview/Tyler area. Run some RadioMobileOnline plots to see a rough idea of you coverage area to HTs and to Base stations

[LeoG]

Flat lander....   Pretty hilly around here.   Thanks.