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There have been several discussions recently about buying new vs. used equipment for GMRS. Since those discussions have been pretty complete, I won't duplicate them here. However, I would like to address one point that seems to get lost, concerns about quality. Many people seem to avoid used equipment under the belief used equipment will be more likely to have problems. If you are comparing the same brand and manufacturing quality, that assumption may be correct. However, when comparing used commercial equipment (Kenwood, Motorola, Vertex, Icom...) to cheap imports (Baofeng, B-Tech, Woxun, Retevis, etc.) it is a different story. Glancing through this forum and in particular Amazoin reviews, you will find many cases of brand new CCRs that had to be replaced. Even with Midland branded gear, several users have reported the need for 2 or three replacements before finally getting something they were happy with. In addition, you are probably more likely to get good service from a reputable eBay seller than some of the CCRs bought on Amazon and elsewhere. So, if concerns about reliability and quality of used equipment is your sole reason for looking at new radios, you might want to reconsider. Just one more thing to keep in mind when you start looking for equipment.

RFParts.Com sells them... so does Ham Radio Outlet. They are about $50 each.

The only potential GMRS trouble I've seen with the Motorola branded EVX-S24 and EVX-261 is getting them to work in Wideband. The Motorola units I've gotten in are strapped as Narrowband out of the Box, and I've yet to be successful in changing them over to Wideband. I've done that with ease on Vertex labeled units, but there's something that I haven't bothered to figure out when it comes to the MSI branded version. I've heard people say that you NEED to use the FIF-12 cable in order to use the Wideband enablement mode (as well as using the Export version of software) - but I haven't bothered to try that out, as my basic Vertex cable worked for updating (backdating?) previous Vertex units to Wideband enablement. They do seem to be great little units for the price. Be aware that the EVX-S24 is only listed at 2 watts for Analog UHF (3 watts DMR). *Edit - just noticed that you specifically said the VX-261. Same issues may apply, but the analog VX-261 is a screaming steal in the Used market. I've been snatching them up in good condition at less than $40 per unit with accessories.

Yes, I learn that lesson about connectors the hard way, next antenna and all after that one will be N connectors... its sealed, and its much easier to get high quality silver plated or tri-metal N connectors than it is for the UHF 239/259 stuff.... G.

I have a Wouxun KG-UV8D+ and I'm using CHIRP or the Wouxun software to program it. I just can't seem to get it right. The repeater is 462.6000 - Out PL 110.9 - In DPL 712 What I need to know is what gets entered into each column in CHIRP. I don't understand the column abbreviations.

50 bucks for SILVER connectiors!!!???? man, what do they think I am made out of? GOLD? ( no pun intended)

Man, can I relate. I have two Btech HT's that I use when off-roading. I'll settle for the reduced performance out in the mountains because we are only a few car lengths apart and if I drop a radio in the mud, I would rather have it be a $20-$30 BaoFeng than a $250 Yaesu.

I am pretty certain that Vertex radios can be made wideband by using the NON-USA programming software. I've done it to my EVX mobiles without any issues. and YES, other cables will certainly not work. I did try, but didn't work, almost ruined the radio so I returned these and got the OEM FIF-12, never had an issue with that. G.

It sounds like the same "wild goose chases" I went through when I was all about Baofengs and 20 dollar budgets "can you hear me now?" Again, nothing wrong with that; its just don't hold your expectations too high with the lower end stuff. Otherwise police and military would be operating 20 dollar Baofengs instead of the APX8000 radios and whatnot. G.

For Heliax LDF4-50 1/2" cable? B/c I also have a ton for LMR400 cable, but finding those for Heliax is more difficult. G.

Thank you so much for your reply. This helped tremendously! Got it up and flying!

EDIT: You have one of the more complex requirements. This image is how you should set up CHIRP... http://fiveguysracing.com/marc/HAM-GMRS/SplitTone.JPG Or this if you want to hear everyone, not just repeater traffic... http://fiveguysracing.com/marc/HAM-GMRS/SplitTone2.JPG I can't speak about what your radio can or can't do, but Chirp is pretty straight forward. Use the image below as a reference for what the general meanings are. Start here... https://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/MemoryEditorColumns LOC is the channel location, aka what memory slot. Frequency is the simplex frequency of the channel you want to use. If it is a repeater frequency, you enter the repeater output frequency, which is what you will be listening to. Name is just that. Pick a name that give you an idea of what channel you're on. Now... the tone mode can be a little confusing for people. There are a few options to pic from, but until you get used to the radio and software, I would not set the tone mode for anything unless needed for a repeater. The tone mode that is most commonly used is 'Tone', which your radio transmits sub-audible tones to open the squelch of the radio/repeater receiving your signal. If you look at my example below, I have Tone set on the repeater memories. But I also have TSQL on two repeater memories. That function transmits a tone to open the repeater and my squelch only opens when the repeater transmits that same tone. The reason I have that set up is because there are two repeaters near me, using the same frequency pairs, but they use different tones. So, by using TSQL, I know when I hear a signal, it is coming from one specific repeater. So, you populate a value in the Tone column if you what to trip a repeater, but hear everyone. Use the TSQL column if you only want to here people or machines using a tone when they transmit. (Note, there is a Cross mode. That is for radios that support transmitting one tone to open a repeater [for example], but having another tone open the squelch on their radio. I would suggest spending some significant time researching how that works before you mess with it.) You will also notice that I have two memories configured for DTCS, at the very bottom. This mode is commonly called Digital Code Squelching. It is just another squelch type. Most repeater owners don't use this method. It is most common on simplex channels. It can also be insanely complex. You can have DTCS or Split DTCS, transmitting one code and your squelch opens with another code. Than you can reverse the code sequence on none, one, either or both. I would suggest spending some significant time researching how that works before you mess with it. If you look at the image below, you will see which tone column is associated with what tone mode. That should help understand those. Just ignore DTCS RX Code, DTCS Pol, and Cross Mode until you learn about how those items work. The duplex mode is going to be None for the GMRS and FRS channels, unless you are programming a GMRS repeater pair. Then it will be a Plus (+). If you are programming a repeater pair and select plus, the software should automatically select the proper frequency offset, based on the starting receive frequency. If it doesn't, you should enter 5 MHz (5.000000). This automatically changes your transmit frequency, when you press the PTT, to the repeater's input frequency. For Mode, you can use FM for everything except the FRS channels 8 through 14. Those must be set to Narrow FM or NFM. Also, if you cannot program your transmitter to 0.5 watts or if your radio has a detachable antenna, per the law, you are not allowed to transmit on those frequencies. My radio doesn't go any lower than 1 watt and has a detachable/external antenna. So, I have them programed for receive purposes only. Power and Skip should be pretty obvious. Anyway, hope that helps. http://fiveguysracing.com/marc/HAM-GMRS/ChirpProgram.JPG

So this test wasn't very conclusive, partly because we had limited time and restricted terrain. UV-5R and GMRS-V1 were at Point A and my old FRS started at Point C about 1/4 mile away through a flat neighborhood walking away from Point A. The issue we had was the flat neighborhood drops off on both ends after about 1/2 mile so it's hard to test beyond that range. Anyway, reception was clear on the FRS from both GMRS radios up to 1/2 mile, then as we lost line of sight there was quite a bit of noise and choppy audio. Subjectively it seemed like the audio from the GMRS-V1 was less understandable than the UV-5R, but it was close. From FRS to both GMRS radios reception was fine, but dropped off completely once we lost line of sight. So *maybe* the GMRS-V1 has a transmit issue? To @gman1971's point about desensing, I did notice that sometimes when I was holding both GMRS-V1 and UV-5R only one of them would light up and receive from the FRS. Not every time, but probably 1/3 of the time. Holding them farther apart helped. I don't know when I'll have a chance to do another proper test with multiple radios so for now I guess I'll just accept that my practical line of sight range is about 2-3 miles with the radios I have now.

Sent you a PM.

I haven't dealt with them, but they look reasonable. I'll extend the same offer to you on the M1225, since gman1971 isn't interested. It's the 40 watt 20 channel version, pre-programmed with gmrs channels, and I'll throw in the programming cable. All for less than used-radios dot com has them listed without the cable.

I don't know about the difficulty of finding silver plated 239/259. In the ham radio world, decent silver plated connectors are by far the most common.

That seems pretty consistent with what I'm seeing. Have mine paired with their 6db nmo antenna and have been happy so far.

Thank you RCM, however, the Vertex Standard mobiles I have ATM are working great so at this point I think I am all caught up on GMRS radios. (while keeps thinking about ham ticket, finding ways to buy MORE radios ) hahaha.

EXACTLY! Note also that unless you plan to use a radio strictly for simplex at the default power, with no PL/DPL tones and no optional settings, you will still need to do some programming - even on a brand new off-the-shelf, GMRS Certified radio. Yes, with some radios this programming can be done from the keypad. However, keypad programming is laborious and error prone. Further, if you buy a second radio and want to program it just like your first one or have to replace a radio, you have to start from scratch. If you programmed the radio(s) from your computer you can just clone the new radio in one step. Personally, I prefer the Motorola gear. However, while it can be found, Motorola software is not easily acquired. While Kenwood, (and Vertex) software is, as RCM noted, readily available. Again to emphasize what others have already written: When buying radio gear on eBay, look for good quality equipment from a seller with high ratings who will guarantee the radio(s). Also, make sure the radio will cover the GMRS portion of the UHF band (462-467mHz). You can usually tell this from the product description or the model number. If you are buying hand-held radios, assume you will also need a new battery and possibly a charging stand. Finally, do your homework and lookup the radio and specific model online to be sure it fits your needs for power and features.

I use Icom VHF radios at work all the time. Never had any issues with them and they are much older models. They outlasted the motorola radios by years. As for the F6011, It likely has the same duty cycle as other heavy duty mobile radios, that being about 20% on high power. Icom does not outright come out and say this, but the cooling fins look to be about the same size as those on the Kenwood 8180's. One important note is that the Kenwoods are 30W radios and the icom is a 45W, which could reduce the duty cycle, but knowing Icom I would say 20% is reasonable to expect. Thats my input at least so you may wish to wait till a diehard Icom user or tech comes in.

Having lived in New England for many years, I have seen what ocean and road salt does to everything. What a mess.

KPG-49D v 4.xx, as linked in this thread: https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/1629-programming-a-tk880/ It's available various places for free, and in fact if you buy the cable from "BlueMax49ers" on ebay he will probably send you a copy of the software too, if you would prefer to get it that way. As for radio condition, please let me know if you run across any TK-880s that need to be torn down, cleaned up and repaired. Radios like that would probably sell for $10 each or less, and I would be in the market for a dozen or so. But most of the TK-880s out there for sale are in very good to excellent condition. The arduous task of setting one up consists of connecting power, plug the programming cable into the mic jack of the radio and the usb port of your Windows computer, run the program, fill in your desired frequencies/offsets/tones/bandwidths (W/N) in the spreadsheet of the program, and click "write to radio." Done. No tearing down, no cleaning, it's actually easier and quicker than figuring out the settings on a Midland, and you actually end up with the correct settings instead of the closest facsimile the Midland offers. There are even sellers who will program the radio for you, free of charge, when you buy one from them. Most of the sellers of these commercial radios are, after all, radio shops. That's how they got them to begin with. Not to step on anyone's toes here, but the only people I see defending the Midlands are people who have money invested in one or more of them. Here's an example of what I'm talking about: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kenwood-TK880-UHF-TK-880-1-V-2-250Ch-25-Watts-450-490-Mhz/123813584035?epid=619911360&hash=item1cd3dd5ca3:g:MxYAAOSwE5BdERZ0 I don't know this guy; I just found it in a quick search. It's on the high end price wise, at $99 + $12 shipping. But the radios look great, include the mic, mount bracket and power cable, and free programming of up to 16 channels. The seller even has a 90 day warranty. Connect power, connect antenna. It doesn't get any easier than that.

A lot of problems are probably exacerbated by the presence of salt, whether it be on or near the ocean or in an area where salt is used on the roads. You wouldn't believe the amount of rain we get here, but not much salt. Btw, the wideband uhf antenna I linked does have an N connector. That's one of the reasons I chose it.

Wasn't trying to be argumentative earlier just clearing up any miscommunication on what I was looking for and for what. What program do you use for the TK-880? I don't have a problem getting a used radio and taking the time to get it up and running, heck it's the cheaper option for a quality unit. But my plate is loaded down and I was looking for something turn key for now. I have a 1986 F-150 that I am restoring that will get one of these radios most likely. I actually have two vehicle projects, three kids, a house to finish renovating, work 40-50hrs a week, and am in college full time trying to finish my engineering degree. I really don't have time to tear down, clean and repair any radio units lol. This is why currently I'd rather drop $200-300 on a unit ready to go that I don't have to worry about instead of $65 on something I have to spend a few hours on or stress about the risk of being non functional. This is also why I haven't responded... Been too busy to be on here to follow up. My position is another pivot on what Marc said. And to support his point, you may have a bunch of people with no mechanical/electrical ability or general handiness wanting to get into GMRS, and drop the money on a license for one reason or another who need turn key options and if the only thing a community can ever give them is, buy this 25 year old radio tear it down, then buy x y and z and then program it etc it's going to overwhelm and scare people away from the hobby.

Not to drag this topic further into further CCR bashing there is one important item to consider. The desire to get into radio is something many dont do any more nor have any interest. So the good thing is some people still want to. The issue with the Baofeng or any CCR is the performance as many he mentioned. The performance can impact the users "taste" of the hobby and many times they loose interest cause it doesn't do what it should. I have had this happen in the SAR world and also Amateur world on top of my GMRS repeaters. 90% of the folks that buy those complain they can't hit the repeater or are so broken up and unreadable more folks tell them its junk. This causes them to loose interest and leave the radio world. For me I started grabbing cheap good radios when i have extra cash and leave them sitting. When i get a person who wants to use a baofeng I hand them one of these and let them use it side by side. Normally 2 days later I get "hey can i buy this from you". There is alot of good radios out there dirt cheap that works well for GMRS. I recently picked up 6 HT1000 portables for $50.00. Threw some $20.00 batteries on them and programmed up for GMRS. I have one left in the box. If your truly interested in radio get a reputable radio or your expectations will not be met. JMHO

Ah, I see. Well, I have found that I like their antennae but I am not opposed to trying other quality brand gear. For sure. So far these Diamond haven't let me down yet, the X50C2 and the F23H I have are holding rather well in Wisconsin weather conditions. Since Diamond offerings for vehicle mounted applications aren't that great for what I want I'll probably end up getting a Larsen or a Motorola mobile antenna for a van mounted NMO antenna solution. The point is that most of the cheapie stuff always gets you in the end; and yes, I was on that boat, I was the guy who read the comments like the one I made and said "nah, it can't possibly be that bad, he is just an overreacting fool!" Until I had to throw away multiple antennae b/c they developed 8.0:1 SWR... rusted, solder joints were cold and cracked with the extreme weather... etc. Oh, and once you learn about nickel/chrome plating, intermod and poor RF performance there is no going back to the cheapie stuff, ever. Heck, even the US Navy wrote a paper recommending that all nickel plated connectors had to go... and guess what most of those cheapie antennae are made out of... nickel plated/chrome plated steel surfaces.... which might be fine for the first two weeks, but then, when you look at that "return loss" dB curve on the antenna analyzer rather than looking like a nice deep valley it looks more like Ruffles potato chip.... a wavy mess. Again, its Other People's Money, so I won't lose any sleep if you decide to go TRAM, Browning, or Ganzou CrapMaster... just be aware that materials matter a LOT, and a lot more than you'd think. As for corrosion and weatherproofing connectors I've found that STUF dielectric grease works wonders for those non-sealed UHF connectors. Next antennae I get when these Diamond bite the dust will have N connectors, but again you live and learn. Thanks for the clarification Marc. G.

The link posted above is correct for the TK-880.

If you are considering the Icom IC-2730A, why not look at the F6021? Neither radio is certified for GMRS and the IC-2730A is not even certified for Part 90 (it is certified Part 15 only). In other words, if you are willing to look at non-GMRS certified radios, there is a huge world of possibilities out there, including used quality professional equipment (eBay). Specifically, search these forums on Kenwood (including some Part 95E certified radios) and Motorola.

I'm new to the forum. Does anyone make a GMRS repeater capable portable radio?

I have noticed the same. In my area there is an automotive supplier or two, and a hotel using FRS/GMRS channels and shouldn't be....however..... With the rules change where FRS radios can use the GMRS mains at 2 watts....you don't know who is legal and who is not. I say about 50/50 illegal (seller put them on GMRS), and then business using FRS because it is cheap on equipment...even though it's not right, it is legal. I hope they get tired of replacing junk radios and buy some real ones and a license (part 90).

1. You don't. But, GMRS licensees should ID without question. Nothing we can do even if we do care, except follow the rules ourselves and encourage others to also. With FRS being able to use the mains now at 2w and the low side splinters at 2w (where they used to be .5w, even though not a lot of radios out there yet to do it...still much Chinese junk people can hap hazardly program with little to no understanding of rules) there will be times that FRS is on a channel and there will be no ID and no way to know. Personally....I share, but if I can tell they are unlicensed, I'll go ahead and use it anyway especially my repeater channel. I am licensed for 25 years, and own a repeater. I share with GMRS users, not FRS people with $18 radios. 2. No license on 462.725 with 40 watts - Illegal. 3. More authority? Not technically sure that exists, but if I follow the rules and I don't *hear* that FRS user on the channel because he is low power anyway....I talk right over them. They seem to change channels after that. FRS can be used for "Business", but its a poor choice. Toy equipment, essentially, and there is no protection, or exclusivity. An automotive supplier near me learned that, and bought real radios a few years ago. People were interfering with their "operations" by listening for names, etc. and then mimmicking people, causing confusion and chaos. Nothing that they could do about it. Of course it helped that they were so smart that they used FRS Channel 1 and NO squelch code (open squelch). I listened to some of it night after night on the scanner...it got funny, frankly. Here's a channel guide, it if helps any. http://www.nat-com.org/frs-gmrs.html