Radioguy7268

I've run the Tram 1486 on GMRS before with no problems. Range of 10-15 miles with a decent repeater. That's not to say every Tram 1450 is good, because I'm sure that some are junk, but it's not the design that's junk - just the tuning and the materials they're made of. Oh, and those UHF SO-239 connectors should be banned from the antenna industry. That said, have you tried out your antenna & coax just using simplex & hooking it up to a handheld or mobile? That will quickly tell you what's going on. Eliminate the repeater/duplexer/jumpers - just use an adapter straight to the coax feedline. If that doesn't work, then you KNOW it's the feedline or the antenna. If that simplex test works, then you've got some investigation to do. I'd want to sweep the line before I'd just replace the antenna. A basic UHF hatpin antenna would get you 2 miles on a working repeater. Heck, I once had a hospital with a repeater antenna blown off the roof & the connector ripped out of the feedline - that was still giving them 80% of their in-building coverage. They only called because "it was a little scratchy in some spots".

If you don't have the tools for testing, your choices are limited. You can take your radio to a local shop to be bench checked - but checking isn't necessarily fixing. If you've got another radio to try, then you should program that up & see if you have a different experience. If both radios are doing the same thing (but those cheap company radios are not having trouble) - then I think you need to look at the idea that the DPL information on Radio Reference probably isn't correct - it's just what someone's scanner read out.

Without getting into the weeds of technical jargon - there are design specifications that determine the size of the "window" that a radio receiver will recognize as being a properly configured DPL code. That design window allows you to not quite be exactly on target, but still close enough to the bullseye to count as valid. As long as your radio stays within that window, you're going to operate. Deviate off center a little to the edges, and the receiver might decide that you're not really a valid user. Start outside the window, and then drift into spec, and the receiver might take a while until it decides that you're really supposed to be there, and opens up the audio circuitry.

Back up to the issue that WPXM352 brought up - how did you get the Frequency and Code? There are certain PL codes that can "false" as a DPL - and if you read the DPL off the air with your radio, it's possible that you're close, but not quite there. The idea that it's taking so long for your Gateway device to recognize your particular radio as a Valid User indicates that there's something not quite right with the way your radio is presenting itself. I hate to say, but there's also shops within the industry that will NOT give out PL tones correctly if a customer calls in looking for system information.

Simplest solution would be to just try a different radio (prefer a Part 90 type accepted radio of proven design/performance) and program in the same frequency/code combination. Beyond that, you could put your current radio on a Service Monitor & see how well it's actually performing, ie: How stable is it? How well does it hold the programmed center frequency - what's the amount of drift? What's the deviation level and stability of the DPL? What's the total deviation? When you programmed your radio - did you set it for narrowband 12.5 kHz? Pretty much any UHF business band frequency would be a 12.5 emissions mask.

Chances are that the device is having trouble decoding your particular DPL, as generated by your radio.

Not knowing what kind of radio you're using, or the exact style of headset you prefer, I'd point you over to Impact Communications & tell you to browse through what they've got available. I'm thinking you can buy directly from their store even without being a dealer if you use a credit card. Their quality is pretty good, the pricing is decent, and their service and selection is better than you'll find at any of the "big box" online stores. When I go searching for audio accessories, Impact is my first stop if I can't find what I need through OEM. http://www.impactcomms.com Klein is another option - and they have some Bluetooth options that other manufacturers don't carry. I'd recommend Impact over Klein. http://www.kleinelectronics.com

I'm pretty sure that the FCC would tell you that you need to identify on each and every channel that you're transmitting on. That's kind of the whole concept of ID'ing - it's a way to identify who is transmitting, so that any issues of interference can be more easily resolved. If you transmit on channels 1,3,5, and 7 - but only transmit a partial ID on Channel 5 and 7 (because the radio switched channels halfway through your voice identification) then I don't think you've properly identified. How does the radio accomplish monitoring the channel to make sure it's open and available before automatically switching?

I wonder if anyone has pointed that out to the FCC? Seems that an automated frequency hopping system in GMRS would not be monitoring the channel prior to each transmission as it hops around - potentially causing interference to anyone who is already transmitting on the channel. I'd also wonder how it handles identification on the 4 channels that it just transmitted on. Or, do you need to stop every 15 minutes to go back and manually key up on the channel(s) in question and properly identify? Type acceptance under Part 95 probably doesn't allow for such a feature. I'm not a lawyer.

What happens when you add a 3rd Radio into the mix? You can decide to program it to either your A or B profile, but then when you try to key up on the 3rd radio - one of the other units (which is programmed the same as your 3rd unit) isn't going to hear what's being said. Taxi cabs used to do a setup similar to this in the 1950's and 60's on VHF. The dispatcher keyed up on a 152.xx frequency, which all the mobile radios listened to. The mobiles would talk back in on a 157.xx frequency - and the dispatcher normally had a separate receiver tuned to that receive channel - even when he/she was keyed up & transmitting. Taxi units could not hear each other, and could not talk to each other, which eliminated chatter between units. Unless you want to enter your Louie DePalma Dispatcher mode, it's not very useful beyond 2 units.

The actual M1225 LS model was a distinct version of the radio. Just to make things confusing, there was also an LTR "add-on" option board that could be installed into a regular M1225 to make it into an LTR capable trunking radio. The M1225 LS had limited "conventional" modes- I believe it was only 2 conventional non-LTR channels, and I also believe the early models required you to power up on an LTR home channel. Later versions of software or firmware fixed that. The most recent version Motorola M1225 programming software - HVN-9054 - will do either the conventional M1225 or LS models. Earlier versions of software was split into two different versions if I recall (20+ years ago) correctly. Make sure you get the latest, and it won't be a problem. The M1225 LS radio probably has a duty cycle of 10 to 20% when run at 40 watts. It was never designed or suggested to be used as a repeater by Motorola. I'd set the thing to LOW Power and run a cooling fan on it the entire time that the repeater is on. The heat sinks on the M1225 series is not very big. Keep it supplied with fresh cool clean air. Internal shielding was also not the greatest, and the M1225 series was known to suffer from desense. Get some physical separation between the transmit and receive radios, even if it's just 6 or 8 inches. Don't stack them directly on top of each other. Also, those inexpensive repeater maker cables that plug into the back of a 16 pin option plug can go in either way. Make SURE you're plugging it with the correct orientation up/down. There's only one way that's correct, but the incorrect way will brick your radio. https://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/manuals/m1225-service-manual-6880904z96-a.pdf Pages 54 & 55 have the pinout information. If you didn't already own the radios, I'd be telling you to find another radio for the project. I like M1225's - but I don't like them for repeaters that have any type of duty cycle. I've made a few "poor man repeaters" in my life, but I usually used the low power M1225 models for the transmit side, and set them down to 10 watts. With a fan. And a time out timer set at 60 or 90 seconds.

All radios were programmed Wideband, and performance verified prior to shipping with an Aeroflex/IFR 3920.

Compander = Compression & Expander. The idea of a Noise Blanker - at least as I understand how it was implemented in Low Band radios by Motorola - was a secondary receive circuit slightly off-set in frequency, and that would be used to compare desired signal vs. undesired noise (Figuring that most lower frequency "noise" would be wideband in nature, while the desired signal would be on-frequency). In Compandering, Audio is compressed upon transmit, and expanded upon receive. This allows for a potentially better "envelope" of audio response to be compressed into a given amount of bandwidth. However, it requires more manipulation of the audio components of human voice. You give up a bit of audio purity when using Compandering. Better or worse is often up to the ears of the people using the system (and in my experience, how often the people using the system are pressing the outer edges of coverage/range). There's already a ton written about this type of stuff out there on the internet, so the best way I could describe it is to say that if you're only concerned about quality of audio within your own fleet - give it a try & see how it works on your radios and in your system. If you like it, certainly use it for your system. However, most GMRS radio systems and user groups aren't running Compandering, so your radios would sound "odd" sending out compressed audio to another radio that wasn't set to receive (and expand) the compressed audio.

It's "better" in that it would use Windows based software, it's capable of either Narrowband or Wideband per channel for programming, and it's a newer design. Beyond that, if you're a Wideband GMRS user - it doesn't matter much. They both work well, and the 880 is usually a bit cheaper in the used radio market.

A 1/4 wave 6 inch 'hatpin' antenna every day of the week. If you don't like chrome, get one in black. Get a spare or two in case she runs through the car wash. Cost is about $6. Retail.

Be cautious. There's plenty of "surplus" Public Safety radios hitting the market that are 800 MHz units. They're never going to work on GMRS. If the seller is willing to program 16 channels for you - go ahead and send them your list prior to purchase. That should give you a clue if the radios would work - at least, if the seller is honest...

Used DTR's seem pretty tough to come by at a cheap price. At least, in the Ebay world. They certainly do seem to have a following. I've traded in a few from Construction and Quarry sites where guys bought them without realizing that they couldn't talk to existing conventional VHF/UHF Digital radios they already had. Similar to Retevis' advertising people, they had confused DMR Digital with FHSS 900 MHz Digital. FHSS is neat stuff when they're picking out usable signals from low, low down into the weeds of the noise floor - all while hopping around at 100+ times per second, and avoiding interference on the fly.

Somewhere, someone's looking at the top 30 ft. of that tower & thinking... yeah, I can re-use that.

Asterisk (which serves as the backbone to the All*Star based Internet linking) was originally set up as a phone system, so it wants to use dial strings to set up links and direct traffic. I have gone down this path a little before, and I did not desire to have a bunch of radios running around with DTMF keypads to control the network links. It makes much more sense for me to have a setup where Channel 1 is my local repeater, Channel 2 links my local to a distant repeater for a specific user group, and then Channel 3 to link a distant repeater to an "All Call" type of wide area group. That way any user can simply switch channels to operate the system as needed. If I understand Taco's OP - that's what he's trying to achieve via PL tones. On the high end - you can go with a commercial system like the JPS ACU Z-1 - which is very flexible, programmable, and expensive. Their system is a card based design, so you can interface different formats (ethernet/private LAN, Internet, Leased Lines, Local, microwave E&M, etc.) as needed. On the lower end, Trident Microsystems (out of business since Motorola swallowed them up) used to make an LTR controller called the Marauder which would allow for automated "dial up" Linking of sites via tones or user groups. You can find those being sold online for less than $100 most days. The similar and more plentiful Raider panel doesn't have the dial up function. You could interface that with a very cheap and simple VoIP system like Ooma or Magic Jack to allow session based linking. It would not be fast or flexible, but it would be dirt cheap. Definitely not Public Safety grade, but it might be good enough for non-critical business use. There's also some RoIP devices made by JPS and Orion Systems that would allow you to interface subscriber devices (end-user radios, not Repeaters) and as long as you were willing to dedicate some radios to the cause, you could achieve user group linking (Multiple user groups and multiple repeater sites would involve ever-increasing numbers of dedicated radios with internet links.) I've seen a few instances of that - but never built one out myself. The cheapest and easiest is to run All-Star. The limitations are known, but you're not re-inventing the wheel for a one-off.

2 things I can think of. The cables rarely go bad - unless it's physical (bent/broken pins, cut cable). Do you have any other programs open that could have taken up a port? Sounds like a port conflict. Have you tried closing out other programs & restarting the PC with only the Kenwood program open?

If you're going to point out a problem, proper etiquette says you should also provide a solution. My solution is to suggest that you make the app.

It appears that the DB413 is listed as having 'either' 14 or 24 MHz bandwidth - and the DB413B is what would cover 450 to 470. Do you have the ability to sweep the antennas for response? Either model number is a good choice, the better choice IMHO is the one that sweeps the best (assuming they're both used). The dB difference between them will be seen more on talk out than talk back - and the receive side is where most Repeater systems fall short.

I sent you a PM with software info

I've got an inexpensive Hirose to SMA adapter, but I had to turn down the one I got on a lathe just so that it would slip all the way into the chassis hole/cutout & reach all the way down to the board mounted bypass. Even then, you've still got to hold it in tight and press down with one hand while testing/tuning, not an ideal setup for trying to drive around town while working your HT. If you've seen the $300 Motorola "test fixture", it's basically a big clamp with a setup to hold the adapter in place. It works, but I still don't consider it to be practical.

I specifically sent the EVX-S24 because it has the Rodina chip with an ability to hook up an external connector. It's 'just' 2 watts on Analog, but I think in the real world it's going to perform pretty well with a Repeater. With the XPR 2nd generation variants, there's just no good/cheap/simple way to hook up an external antenna. It will still be interesting to see how the XPR7350 (yeah, no display or keypad) runs vs. some of the CCR's. The VX-261 is a conventional Superhet double conversion receiver, but with more front end filtering than you'll find on any CCR under $100. Most of the VX series radios I own, I purchased used for less than $25. I have a rental fleet with 30+ in both VHF and UHF versions. Cheap enough to rent out, reliable enough that they come back ready to just charge up for the next rental.