Lscott

They don't use GMRS in Germany. If anything its PMR446. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMR446

A while ago. You can still smell it. A few will still try to kick the bones around for a bit

It's going to take some careful thought to figure out how to do it. IMHO for the moment we should just forget running digital voice on repeaters. I think the major gain is digital voice on simplex. The logic there if you need a repeater the analog FM types seem to do a very good job of providing good coverage. The digital voice modes would primarily benefit HT to HT, or HT to mobile/base communications. Also remember UHF spectrum is limited. The FCC mandated most services move to narrow band in an attempt to free up more spectrum. Asking the FCC to allocate more spectrum to GMRS is very likely dead on arrival. We would be lucky to keep what we have now. https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/6478-digital-direct-mode-simplex-on-462-mhz-gmrs-channels/?do=findComment&comment=66329&_rid=1908

That's one of the key areas that has to be examined and the potential interference issues resolved. I covered that in the attached opinion paper in my prior post in this tread.

IMHO the argument for digital voice on GMRS has nothing to do with trying to make it a "Ham Lite" type hobby service or experimenting. I believe it it would improve the quality of the service, better with less noise communication. That is the primary reason why somebody would want to use the service, they have a communication need, the clearer the better, while digital voice provides that out closer to the range limits compared to analog FM. The key to the whole thing is how to go about it without creating a major disruption to the existing user base.

The programming example is for a dPMR radio. NXDN programming isn’t too bad.

So do I! When I was first messing with DMR my initial reaction was WTF?

You're one of the examples of those that have no interest digital voice modes, at least DMR, on GMRS. That's perfectly fine. Any implementation has to take those kind of interests into consideration. Undoubtedly, and from other posts, you aren't the only one. NXDN is not very complex to use. It can be used without talk-groups, unlike DMR. That deceases the complexity for the user. The attached images are screen shots of the programming software for the example Kenwood dPMR radio in that file. As you can see it's very simple. One is for the analog channels while the other is for the digital ones.

The issue you'll have the owners of those radios will soon realize the channels will become crowded with digital users rendering them almost impossible for analog FM use. That could happen quickly. Digital TV is a case in point. Also once people see no new analog FM radios are being sold they will most likely hang on to them much longer than otherwise might be the case. There are those who hate the sound quality of various digital voice modes and have zero desire to use any of them. If a large enough group objects to digital voice all over the channels, with their objection filed with the FCC, that's going to be a problem that needs a solution. I did a quick update to my opinion paper on how it could be done and some suggestions on how to deal with some of the potential objections by existing users. GMRS Digital Voice - 20231127.pdf

Before even petitioning the FCC there needs to be some general concuss about how to do it. Without that the FCC mostly would just deny it at the outset. So far can't really get to that point yet. DMR might not even be the mode to use. I haven't really read any good debate if there are better digital voice modes that could potentially be used. I believe there are. I posted an opinion paper I wrote outlining my thoughts. If anyone is interested doing some searching on the forum should turn up references to it. From various posts on the Internet digital voice is being used in pockets around the country. I don't expect that to change without some huge FCC enforcement action, which at this point in time doesn't seem to be high on their agenda. What's more likely to happen is the practice will continue and grow. Once it gets out of hand the FCC can do what it's done before, throw in the towel and make it legal. They did it with the combo GMRS/FRS radio mistake. Buggered around with the rules such that what people were already doing illegally is now legal.

That annex is huge. I think the relevant section starts on page 92 of the linked document. Most of that annex after that is just the specific test conditions for each mode. https://fasma.org/wp-content/uploads/TSB-88.1-D-Wireless-Communications-Systems-Performance-in-Noise-and-Interference-Limited-Situations-Part-1-Recommended-Methods-for-Technology-Independent-Performance-Modeling-Includes-Access-to-Additional-Content.pdf

When the rules changed to allow license free FRS radios to run 2 watts isn't going to help matters considering business are free to use them.

The problem with digital voice modes is there are so many of them. I have radios for D-Star, DMR, NXDN and P25 Phase 1. Nothing yet for YSF, or dPMR which is mainly an EU license free service like FRS here but digital. Haven’t seen it in North America yet. If that wasn’t enough there is a new one, M17. https://m17project.org

If you’re referring to recent manufacture yes. There are some older radios that will do digital and have FCC Part 95 certification. I own a few of those. Of course I can’t use the digital part under the current rules. The attached file is the FCC grant for one of my NX-300 radios with certification for Part 95 for all modes it has the capability to transmit. The various radio features are listed in the attached brochure. NX-300 FCC Grant - 1.pdf NX-200_300.pdf

Just about all the DMR repeaters by me are on UHF.

1. No test required. 2. License fee is now only $35. 3. Licenses good for 10 years. 4. Cheap Chinese radios.

VHF and UHF is much more challenging to make DX contacts. Most of the digital voice modes are on UHF. Satellite communications is really fun. Particularly when operating the sats with the linear translators for SSB. I have full privileges for HF. Just haven’t gotten the urge to bother with it in over 20 years. I operate VHF and above, mostly mobile.

I've caught some very sporadic DMR traffic on channel 18 by me. It was a few transmissions during the day lasting a few seconds each. I haven't heard it in many months. I suspect either somebody miss programmed a radio, or did so deliberately. In any case it stopped and I suspect the local FCC might have had a hand in ending it.

Again these aren't cheap. Petty much everything about going portable with solar isn't going to be cheap. Anyway these are good solar charge controllers. You can get them for various battery chemistries. They also do charge controllers with custom voltages. https://sunforgellc.com/genasun/#gen_product_row

May everyone have a safe and happy holiday.

I have one for my Kenwood TH-D74A tri-band radio. SRH320A Triband HT Antenna.pdf

Just because the radio says it's doing 10 watts means nothing. Put it on something like a calibrated watt meter. Some years back people were buying Baofeng radios that "claimed" to do 8 watts. Once they were tested on a watt meter the real power output was around the 5 to 6 range. Oh well just typical for a Chinese radio to over state the spec's.

I would recommend ONLY the 706MKIIG model. There were some issues with the previous ones. I ran the IIG mobile for a number of years in a van when I had only my Tech Class license. It was a riot! I made some long range DX contacts on 6M SSB and a few on 2M SSB. At that time you needed the Tech Plus license to use anything below the 6M band. If you buy one used see if you can get the remote kit for it. The front face plate can be detached allowing the body to be located out of the way. IC-706MKIIg.pdf

As mentioned using a Ham Radio on GMRS is not legal. On the other point about high power HT's. Most people find out the Chinese radios rarely generate the claimed power output. I've seen claims of HT's that can do 20 to 30 watts plus. Just not believable. The other point is the higher output power drains the battery pack faster resulting in far less operating time. Also the radios are not 100 percent efficient. For various reasons the real world efficiency is about 50 percent. That means if the radio is doing an honest 10 watts of output the battery is being drained at a 20 watt rate. Further the 10 watts of heat generated, 20 watts input minus the 10 watts of output, is soaked up by the tiny body of the radio. Those palm sized radios are the worse. Even a 5 watt radio turns into an uncomfortable "hand warmer" when operated at high duty cycles. A few Hams have destroyed their HT's power output stage doing this from the heat generated and the high internal temperatures. One posting else where the Ham said he did this more than once to the same radio. There is a reason why you see the duty cycle specifications of 5-5-90, 5 percent transmit - 5 percent receive - 90 percent standby.