marcspaz

Thanks for the heads-up. I was on the FCC site and that was the only one I found. I'll see if I can find a more recent one. Corey pointed out something to me earlier today that led me to think I was reading an archive, too. EDIT: From the FCC website... e-CFR data is current as of April 4, 2019. Am I missing something? Anyone have a link to something more appropriate? https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=8f8e1be3073f7e8cb87b6b5bbb781164&mc=true&node=se47.5.95_1313&rgn=div8 §95.313 Penalties for violations of the Communications Act or FCC rules. Operators of Personal Radio Service stations may be assessed penalties for violations of the Communications Act and the FCC Rules. (a) If a Federal court finds that a Personal Radio Service station operator has willfully and knowingly violated any provision of the Communications Act, that operator may be fined up to $10,000 or be imprisoned for a period not exceeding one year, or both. Upon a subsequent violation, the imprisonment may be for a period not exceeding two years. See §501 of the Communications Act (47 U.S.C. 501). ( b ) If a Federal court finds that a Personal Radio Service station operator has willfully and knowingly violated any FCC rule, the operator may be fined up to $500 for each violation, or in the case of a continuing violation, $500 for each day that the violation continued. See section 502 of the Communications Act (47 U.S.C. 502). © If the FCC finds that a Personal Radio Service station operator has willfully or repeatedly violated one or more sections of the Communications Act or of the FCC Rules, that operator may be liable for forfeiture. See §1.80 of this chapter for details about the forfeiture procedures and amounts. (d) If the FCC finds that a Personal Radio Service station operator is using a Personal Radio Service station in a way that violates one or more sections of the Communications Act or of the FCC Rules, the FCC may order the operator to cease and desist (i.e., immediately stop operating the station). See §312( b ) of the Communications Act (47 U.S.C. 312( b )).

@Corey, the clipping I read about here was with the first gen MXT400's. Are other brands having the same issue? I ask l because I have several gen 2 MXT400's and there are only wide band repeaters around me. Everyone has been telling me they can't believe how good my radios sound. You have a great mobile setup. I would love to mimic it, but I have a fabric roof. I do get a good 15-17 miles mobile on my wide band 70cm rig... but OP is using a MXT400. He would have to ditch that hardware before he gets any distance out of it.

No problem. I will do my best to help where I can. As far as the MXT400's, the Gen 1 versions are known to have some repeater issues. I would contact Midland at the number listed in the owner's manual. I had an issue with one of mine and they sent me a new gen 2 in just 3 days. The HF frequencies are broken up into different segments. Use of some frequencies require a license while some do not. Citizens Band (CB) is an HF service that doesn't require a proper license. I noticed you said you are trying to get away from CB. Is it a performance issue? I ask because 100% of every person I have ever met that was not happy with their CB's distance performance did not have their equipment setup correctly. Most of that is due to marketing from companies trying to make a quick buck. Done correctly, it is a great long distance ground wave service. I have to admit, if you can get UHF to do what you need it to, the FM fidelity is much, much better than HF and AM. Unfortunately not. A "base station" or "fixed station" is defined by its lack of portability/mobility. Regardless of what hardware you use, you will need to adhere to "base station" rules for a "fixed station". Only repeater's are exempt from the 15 watt power restrictions. Many people use mobile radios as base stations due to cost, availability and options that may be available in a mobile that may not be available in a base station type radio. We all start somewhere. You are doing the right research and asking questions. As far as rules go... the FCC has them published on their website. If you haven't read through Part 95 rules, I would highly recommend it.

Wow... So, there is a lot to unpack there. So, I am not going to be much help with what specific hardware to buy, but I can help you understand the technology a little better, which may help you make better choices. The first thing I want to address is a statement you made... you stated that your narrow band radio isn't compatible with wide band repeaters. That is not a true statement. While its not optimal, wide band and narrow band equipment is cross compatible and 100% usable. If you have a narrow band radio and you can't get it to work with a wide band radio or repeater, its an equipment problem, not a technology compatibility issue. HF is great for distance. UHF is great for increased fidelity and increased data transfer rates. Do you know for sure GMRS is the platform that is going to work best for you? I regularly get 25-30 miles, station to station, on HF with as little as 2 watts, but I only get about 2.5 to 3 miles of simplex coverage with my 40 watt GMRS equipment in the same area. I think that in most cases on simplex, even with wide band equipment, you can forget 10-15 miles on GMRS with mobile and handhelds, even with 50 watts. Unless you are in a situation where you can literally see the other station, you are going to be limited by your environment. Only in line of sight (LOS) applications such as open water, plains, mountain top to mountain top, will you get 50-60 miles on 50 watts. LOS is more like 7 to 10 miles on a 5 watt handheld, too. If you legitimately need to talk 10+ miles, non-LOS, you are likely going to have to rely on a repeater if you want to use GMRS (or UHF in general). As far as coax goes, you need to have the correct coax based on your desired frequency and power levels. That means the cable needs to have a specific length, the conductors need to be a specific diameter, and the shielding needs to have a specific distance/isolator combo around the center conductor to get to the proper impedance for the frequency you intend to use, etc. Typically, pre-cut coax tuned for CB (HF) is not going to work for UHF. Also, keep in mind that a fix based station is only allowed to have 15 watts. An antenna that is only 40 feet off the ground barely clears many homes and practically no wooded areas. That is going to limit your range as well. I am sure the folks that have been doing GMRS for awhile will have some great advice on specific hardware. This site has helped me out tremendously. Good luck and enjoy.

If I can follow-up on that... Agreed. I was not impressed when I first purchased these radios. There are some better/more reliable radios available. "If" you do buy one, I recommend going directly to Midland to be sure you get the most recent revision. Based on what I have been reading, the Gen 1 radios seem to be the predominant subject of complaint. If ordering online, there is no way of knowing what generation you are getting, unless you buy direct from Midland. From what I have seen so far, the only way you can look at the radio and tell what revision you have (besides for calling Midland and asking about the serial number) is by the mic. All gen 1 radios have a really cheap platic mic with a hook loop instead of a button hanger. All 3 of mine were purchased from Amazon vendors. The 2 that had no issues are Gen 2. The one that broke was a gen 1. Even the person who works at Midland admitted that the gen 1 radios are issue prone.

As some of you are aware, the Midland MXT400 radio is not a "great" performer on simplex and has some compatibility issues with legacy radios, as it is not wide-band capable on the frequencies approved for wide-band. With this modest downfall, in my opinion, the second generation radio is still a really nice performer. I have had conversations with people on repeaters 50 miles away from me while mobile (Bunker Hill Rd & Rt 51, Gerradstown, WV to Warrenton VA). I own three MXT400 radios and one of them developed an overheating problem. After using the radio for 15-20 minutes on high power, at a 30% duty-cycle, the radio would overheat and cause the modulation circuit to fail. I called Midland customer service at the number listed in the manual. I spoke to one person, explained the issue, and had an apology and a new radio in route to my house in just 5 minutes. The replacement radio arrived in just 3 days. The new radio is rock solid. I wanted to take a minute to share my experience. While myself and others have expressed being less than thrilled with the radio's performance compared to other legacy models, I think it is important to let people know that the radio is actually really good for what it is and that I had a very positive experience with Midland customer service. When it is time to make a decision about what you want to buy, I think it is important to be aware of the bad and the good. Hope this info is helpful to someone. Thanks, Spaz

1.) ERP is defined as the product of the power supplied to the antenna and the antenna gain. While manufactures produce equipment designed to be approved/accepted by the FCC for certain use cases, it is ultimately up to the licensed responsible party to be sure they are in compliance with the rules and regulations. I don't know anyone that is using a field strength meter to ensure they are legal on FRS/GMRS frequencies, especially if they are using type approved hardware. While I can't advocate intentionally breaking the law, to the best of my knowledge, the assumption is being made by many that if an operator is using type accepted hardware, they are good. Though, that may not actually be the case. That said, if you are intentionally transmitting in a means or manner that is not compliant, then you are committing a crime. I would recommend avoiding the frequencies that would put you in jeopardy. 2.) I have no first-hand knowledge of what base station equipment is available. If you can not find a base that meets your requirements, I would buy a 14 volt power supply and simply run a mobile radio with appropriate performance for the desired mode of opperation. 3.) To the best of my knowledge, Baofeng has not had a 5 watt GMRS type approved radio. They made a 5 watt handheld Ham radio (UV-5R) that can be illegally programed for use on FRS and GMRS frequencies. They have replaced that model with an 8 watt version (current gen 3 is BF-F8HP), which is still made today. Also, to the best of my knowledge, the new Baofeng GMRS 2 watt handheld is their first FCC Part 95 type approved handheld for sale in the US. As indicated by the name, the Baofeng GMRS-V1 is the first version (-V1 or Version 1) of their FCC compliant GMRS radios. EDIT: On #1, you can figure out what your ERP is without a field strength meter. It will not be exact... but close enough to tell if you are compliant. You measure your forward and reverse/reflected power at the radio. Subtract your reverse/reflected power from your forward power and that gives you your real output power. Subtract your line loss and add the DB gain of the antenna. These are completely hypothetical numbers... just an example of what you could actually read. Example: Assuming 1.5 DB of line loss and 6 DB of antenna gain. Take 37 watts forward power, minus 3 watts reflected = 34 actual output power. Subtract 1.5 DB of line loss and add 6 DB of antenna gain, you end up with 49.8 watts ERP. Used this calculator... https://www.everythingrf.com/rf-calculators/eirp-effective-isotropic-radiated-power

Go here... https://mygmrs.com/browse ... and do a search for repeaters in LA, CA. You will find the SoCal repeater network info. Make sure your radio has repeater use capabilities and then configure the unit based on your owner's manual, the frequency and tone info you find. To use the repeater, acquire permission ahead of time if needed (will be noted in the page for the individual repeater results).

@radioguy7268... I had a MXT400... $250, $100 mount and $100 antenna. The MXT400 is a poor performer on simplex. I'm not using a BTech portable or Btech amp. My friend has a BTech handheld and it works way better on simplex than my Midland MXT400. Just using it for price/performance. I would love to buy a quality radio, but I can't find anything in a "mobile" platform, wide-band and is new.

Good post... Nice read to let new-comers know what the reality is. As far as "mobile repeaters" go... to do it right, its much more expensive and difficult than a fixed-station repeater, with nowhere near the performance advantage. I built a portable repeater system for a government emergency response team. It cost a bit over $16,500. The antenna alone was a massive project. It was on a 10' tall tripod (mast mount centered half way up) with a 30' fixed mast and a 30' crank extension, for a total of 65' of elevation. The equipment and batteries were extremely heavy and had to be installed in vented enclosures to keep them dry and cool. The repeater had to be trucked to a location and dropped at a high-point. Setting up the portable tower took a huge amount of labor and real estate to get it stood up and staked out so it was straight and wouldn't fall over in 20-30 mph winds. And unless you have a babysitter, you need self-contained GPS tracking and local alarm on the transceiver in the event that some knucklehead finds your repeater and decides to leave with it.

Reality is, there is not much demand, therefore not much competition. I personally would buy 10 BTECH GMRS-V1 before I bought 1 Garmin. I love Garmin as a brand, but that device is way over-priced for what it does. The first time you drop it... you will not be a happy camper. Not to mention, with the BTech, you can buy a UT-72 mobile antenna, U25d mobile amp, external mic and power supply. That will give you unlimited duration mobile use at 20+ watts on the V1, with much greater range. When you want to use it as a portable, just unplug it, slap the portable antenna back on it and go. If by some chance the radio finds its way into a puddle or bursts into tiny pieces as it hits concrete... $50 later you're back in business. I was really snobbish about the BTech/BaoFang radios until a friend of mine had one and totally out-performed my $350 mobile setup with his $50 handheld.

We have similar active license density in Virginia, too. There are 1908 active users out of a population of 8.5 million. In my experience, FRS and GMRS are used by families on a pretty casual bases. There are a lot of GMRS users that just don't get a license. I am the only person that I know personally that uses GMRS and has a license. People have all kinds of reasons for getting into radio services. Endless numbers of reasons. My recommendation is, don't get into radio for the sake of getting into radio. Use the services... integrate them into your life, to make your life better/easier. Me and many of my friends go 4 wheeling, use multiple vehicles to go to cruise-in's and car shows, and our car clubs go on cruises. Radio makes all of that easier and more fun. There are many places were we play that do not have any cell phone coverage. That makes radios critical to communications. Then of course there are COOP/Disaster response benefits too. I was an assistant emergency coordinator for ARES for years. Radio was critical to day-to-day and in emergencies. Especially during power outages and when commercial comms are not available. A combination of HF, VHF and UHF communications capability can save lives as well as adding to fun.

The MFJ 883 is way too much meter for what you want to do. A $50 meter to read forward, reflected and SWR in the proper frequency and power range is all you need. I wouldn't bother at all with the equipment you have. I'm a Ham and just happen to have it. As others have mentioned, finding an older programmable radio such as a Motorola or Kenwood would be a good choice. There is a lot of talk of models on the forum. I would look around the threads and see what you may like. The antenna I am using is a CA-2x4SRNMO. It is built for 2 meter, 70 cm and GMRS/FRS. I was looking at it for a couple of weeks, when another member recommended it to me as well. It works great.

Hmmm. Based on your reply and confidence that you are using the equipment correctly, I am thinking a few things. 1.) It may just be that you are outside the usable range of the repeater. Some get a 30-40 mile radius, others only get 8-10 miles. 2.) I had two MXT400's (still have one) and they are not the greatest. If you are using the Midland antenna too, you are really doing yourself a disservice. I have gotten much better performance on 440 MHz than on the GMRS 462 and 467 MHz frequencies, which tells me the Midland antenna is tuned incorrectly. I replaced my midland antenna with a Comet multi-band antenna and doubled my range, just on that change alone. 3.) As others mentioned, while the upper frequencies are allocated for 25 KHz bandwidth, your radio is filtered down to 12.5 KHz. Both receiving and transmitting. The problem there is, wide-band carries more noise and the narrow-band receiver is filtering out half of the wide-band signal being transmitted from the repeater. Less usable signal and more noise means you are reducing your effective range. Without being there with my equipment, its going to be impossible to help troubleshoot beyond the few comments I have already mentioned. For what its worth, I ditched the MXT as my primary GMRS radio because I was very disappointed in the the lack of meeting the advertised power ratings and the lack of bandwidth on the upper channels.

Are you sure you have your MXT400 on the repeater channel and not the regular channel? It should show "rp" on the left of the channel display. If you are not dialed to the repeater channel on the MXT400, your radio will not broadcast on the 5 MHz shifted frequency, which would be the repeater's input frequency... you would be broadcasting on the repeaters output frequency instead of utilizing the repeater. For example, the regular channel 15 (on your radio) will transmitting and receiving on 462.55 MHz. If you dial your radio to the repeater channel 15, the radio will only receive on 462.55 MHz. However, when you press the PTT button, your radio will transmit on a frequency 5 MHz higher, 467.55 MHz

That's a heck of a lot easier to read than what I wrote! LOL

- On channels 1-7, the power is limited to 2 watts under FRS rules and 5 watts under GMRS rules. - On channels 8-14, the maximum power is 500mw, regardless if you are operating under FRS rules or GMRS rules. - On channels 15-22, the power is limited to 2 watts under FRS rules and 50 watts under GMRS rules. If your radio doesn't drop to 500mw ERP, I wouldn't recommend using it on those frequencies. "§95.567 FRS transmit power. Each FRS transmitter type must be designed such that the effective radiated power (ERP) on channels 8 through 14 does not exceed 0.5 Watts and the ERP on channels 1 through 7 and 15 through 22 does not exceed 2.0 Watts." Also... "§95.1767 GMRS transmitting power limits. This section contains transmitting power limits for GMRS stations. The maximum transmitting power depends on which channels are being used and the type of station. (a) 462/467 MHz main channels. The limits in this paragraph apply to stations transmitting on any of the 462 MHz main channels or any of the 467 MHz main channels. Each GMRS transmitter type must be capable of operating within the allowable power range. GMRS licensees are responsible for ensuring that their GMRS stations operate in compliance with these limits. (1) The transmitter output power of mobile, repeater and base stations must not exceed 50 Watts. (2) The transmitter output power of fixed stations must not exceed 15 Watts. ( 3 ) 462 MHz interstitial channels. The effective radiated power (ERP) of mobile, hand-held portable and base stations transmitting on the 462 MHz interstitial channels must not exceed 5 Watts. © 467 MHz interstitial channels. The effective radiated power (ERP) of hand-held portable units transmitting on the 467 MHz interstitial channels must not exceed 0.5 Watt. Each GMRS transmitter type capable of transmitting on these channels must be designed such that the ERP does not exceed 0.5 Watt."

Actually, that fine amount is not correct. It's listed in CFR-2010, Title 47, Volume 5, Part 95. The fine is "up to" $500 per day, if found guilty in a federal court of law, for willfully and knowingly violating any FCC rule. Also, there is a maximum fine of $10,000, 1 year in federal prison or both, if found guilty in a federal court of law for willfully and knowingly violating any provision of the Communications Act.

DPL is a squelch control... an alternative to carrier squelch, allowing you to have a more selective group that YOU listen to. The only way to have "private" communications is to digitally encrypt your signal (and/or modulation). The equipment you have doesn't have that capability and that method is prohibited on the radio service you wish to use. EDIT: Forgot to mention, the DPL code is only required to open the receiver on the repeater. With a different radio, you could embed multiple squelch codes and even multiple types of squelch coding... however, that only further restricts who YOU hear. Anyone running an open squelch or carrier squelch will still hear you.

No, you don't need an amateur radio license to transmit with any radio on GMRS. You do need a GMRS license to transmit with any radio on the GMRS frequencies. There are no license requirements to listen to any radio frequency. There are only restrictions and licensing requirements for actually transmitting, and those requirements change depending on what frequencies you want to transmit on. For the radio specifically, the Baofeng UV-5R has a bandwidth utilization that is too large for FRS and GMRS. If you cause harmful interference with adjacent channels or services, you may have repercussions. Just something to be aware of.

I just wanted to take a moment to follow-up on my research and testing. Just so everyone knows there is no bias, I do not work for, nor have any connections to Comet or any other two-way radio communications companies. This is a totally unbiased opinion. I actually found a great, multipurpose antenna (Thanks KD2NCN / WRCR872 !). I bought a Comet CA-2x4SR NMO and its performance exceeds my expectations. Comet advertises this antenna for this very purpose and they did not let me down. My dedicated GMRS antenna (Midland MXTA11) had a 3:1 SWR on channels 1 through 7 (shared FRS/GMRS) and 15 through 22 (GMRS only). On the FRS channels it had a SWR of 2.5:1. Likely due to the extremely low power of the handheld, otherwise it would have be 3:1, too. On the 70cm frequencies, that antenna actually did very well, with a 1.5:1 SWR. On 2 meter, it was over 5:1. The Comet antenna has a 1:1 SWR on 2 meter, 1.2:1 on 70cm, and a 1.5:1 on all FRS and GMRS frequencies. In my simplex testing on channel 15, while using the old antenna, my mobile to mobile between my two trucks was a max of about 2.6 miles in the suburbs. The new max is 8.3 miles in the same suburbs. Also, I got a signal report that I was "full quiet with loud audio" on a repeater that was 28 miles from my test location, while using a full 50 watts. If there are any Hams looking for a good 2m/440/FRS/GMRS antenna, I highly recommend this one. Hope this helps someone. Spaz

That's good to know. If that's the case, I'll likely keep both antennas in the truck and just swap them as needed. I appreciate the reply.

I am wondering if anyone has used a Diamond SG-7900-A-NMO on their vehicle, on GMRS frequencies? If so, how did it go? I am looking at getting a better mobile antenna. A radio I just ordered covers 2 meter, 70 cm and GMRS frequencies. I am thinking about getting a Diamond SG-7900-A-NMO for 2m/70cm use. I had one before and it worked great for its intended use. The antenna is pre-tuned and not adjustable. The Ham UHF frequencies stop at 450 MHz. I am hoping the antenna will be tuned close enough to get good performance and have a good SWR on GMRS frequencies as well. It will make life easier if I don't have to swap antenna's as I move between Ham and GMRS. Any feedback on your experience on this is much appreciated. Thanks, Marc

I appreciate the info. Much appreciated. That actually makes a lot of sense. I appreciate it.

That's bad news and a serious oversight on my end. I can't believe I missed that. Midland micromobile came up in the top 5 recommended GMRS radios is a bunch of online reviews. Is there any options other than selling this radios and buying a pair of widebands?