marcspaz

There is a loose interpretation of the rules that say something like "in an emergency, forget all the restrictions you just read." Again, a loose interpretation... but that is the basics of it. That said, it never hurts to practice, practice, practice. The two best pieces of advice I ever got was... the worst time to look for a lawyer is after you need one, and the worst time to learn how to use emergency equipment is during an emergency.

Kind of surprising to hear. I had a harmful interference issue not too long ago. I went to the owner's and they fixed it in a day. They had patch on the tower and just fixed it. I would think people would want to have their gear working correctly and not causing interference. Saying the FCC doesn't care about GMRS is just plain ignorant. There are groups of volunteers that look for PRS violations and report them to the FCC... and the FCC does take action.

Great suggestion. Great summary of your post too. You reminded me of two items I would like to touch base on again, as well as expand on something else you touched on. First... for non-licensed options, CB radio should not be over looked. It is still HF and when configured properly, you can get outstanding simplex communications, even with the low power restrictions. I have a Galaxy CB with AM and SSB. I have a properly tuned antenna transmission line and a perfect match on a 1/4 wave ground plain antenna (113.5"). On AM with 1 watt RMS carrier and 2 watt RMS modulated power, on a properly tuned system, I am getting 13-15 miles in rough terrain. On SSB, with 11 watts peek power, I am able to talk 22-26 miles, depending on the weather conditions, in that same rough terrain. The second item is, don't be afraid to include a GMRS repeater; even if repeaters in the area have been destroyed in the past. When I was an emergency volunteer, I had a two dedicated, stand-alone mobile repeaters in my truck. One VHF and one UHF. I could either run them from wherever I parked, or I could dead-drop them anywhere with their own batteries and then drive to where I needed to work. Each unit was in a vented container that kept weather off of it, twin 115 amp sealed lead-acid batteries and a 35' portable antenna tower with an omnidirectional antenna AND directional beam antenna to support local repeater comms and long-range point to point comms. The portability is a very affordable add-on to any low power repeater. On 10 watt low power with 50%-60% duty cycle, they lasted for days before the batteries needed to be recharged. Even 50 watt mode, they would run on batteries for more than 24 hours before needing to be recharged. HAM Response - I used to be an assistant emergency coordinator with ARES and answered directly to our local county government Emergency Coordinator. I am NIMS and ICS certified. I think one of the reasons Amateur Radio emergency response seems overly complex for first responder support is because groups and services like ARES are NOT first responders. ARES and groups like them are focused on supporting multiple municipality, mass casualty events and we bring in all aspects of technology to support extended operations in extended responses. The Northeast Blackout of 2003 and Katrina are great examples. We provided phone, video, internet, radio, formal traffic, responder escorts, etc. We had to be not only self sufficient, but able to provide a service in areas and conditions that are worse than being in wilderness with no outside resources. In a situation where OP is discussing... none of that is initially needed and grossly over-complicates the main objective of notification of an inbound crisis that is either occurring or about to occur. That is why the ENS was created. A simple alert system on commonly used platforms; radio, TV and smartphones. Once the event has occurred, that's when the more complex solutions need to be brought in.

My knowledge is limited in the area of "best brand/model", be it HT's or Mobile radios. I would tend to stick with major brands... but I found that even major brands, there are differing opinions. For example, if a user has no skill to do things like soldering or programing a radio, Motorola and Midland would be my first and second choice. However, if you are even moderately competent with a computer and soldering pencil, a whole new world opens up. Based on personal experience, I would stay away from Baofeng, BTech and other divisions of that company. Midland Micro Mobile radios are okay, but they are all narrow band radios. As a side note. I would never discourage new users, but you are much better off with 10 meter radios and 100-200 watt amps. to cover the distance you are talking about. I live in an area where there is rugged terrain all around and I can talk simplex, ground wave, 40+ miles with 120 watts RMS. In my opinion, most UHF radios you will get for FRS and GMRS are the wrong equipment for the job you are talking about without a repeater. You are going to be limited to a mile or two with handhelds. Even mobiles are heavily restricted in rugged terrain. At high elevation line of sight, you can get 50 miles or more with mobile simplex GMRS. Say from a 3,000 ft ridge down into a town in the valley. However, at sea level and low line of sight, you are looking at more like 3 to 5 miles due to ground wave propagation issues at that frequency spectrum. Just an opinion.

I have two BF-F8HP. Those show up in GMRS search results on Amazon, too, but they are advertised as amateur radios on the product page itself. It may be a paid advertising service being provided. Kind of like when you search for a dishwasher, but specifically, only Cascade detergent products are included in the results. The BF-F8HP's have great range for only 8 watts. While standing in my driveway, I can reach a VHF repeater about 20 miles away as the crow flies, and a UHF repeater about 22 miles away. My biggest complaint is, both radios have static come in over the receive, even if me and the other station are 100 yards away. But they were $60 instead of $10, so I was hoping for better audio quality. But, for messing around in the mountains, I'd rather break a $60 HT than a $300 HT.

For an omnidirectional, I would tend to agree, generally speaking. There are only so many "tricks" you can do to make up for a lack of redirecting/focusing energy. Keep in mind that dBi is originally focused around directional antennas. Seeing 100+ dBi gain in a directional antenna is not uncommon. Especially in low power services such as cellular and Ham radio 1 watt global comms.

BoxCar is correct. DB scales (I think there are 7 of them) are all based on a random agreed upon standard. RF is typically measured in DBi. The " i " in DBi stands for isotropic, referencing the standard performance of an isotropic dipole antenna (omni-directional antenna). The power gain of an isotropic antenna is 1.0. Here is where the problem comes into play... true DBi gain is comparing a isotropic dipole antenna to a directional antenna. So, the makers of omni-directional antennas that claim a specific amount of gain, are actually comparing the general performance improvement of their antenna, to that omni-directional dipole baseline. They use size, shape, materials, coils, etc, to get a net improvement in the transmit and/or receive performance and use that measured improvement to advertise its relative DBi gain. That improvement is, for every 6 dBi in gain, you double the range of the antenna when compared to an isotropic dipole antenna tuned for the same frequency. That said, you should be getting a legit improvement that matches that advertised DBi improvement. Mobile vs. base is not relevant. To borrow BoxCar's phrase... gain is gain, and the standard you are testing against doesn't change. Also, keep in mind that as atmospheric conditions and terrain/obstacles change overall performance. If you plan on doing any field testing, you are going to have to test both antennas at the same time, with both stations being in the same location, on the same mount/height/cables/radio/etc.

You are obviously making an assumption based on a collection of multiple posts I have made... and your assumption is wrong. Actually, the radio in question is rated for a 10% duty cycle; 6 minutes transmit, 54 minutes receive. And I mentioned using the radio in extreme use conditions as a cheap/easy means of detecting if the radio will stay within its maximum deviation. If they can have a 20 minute conversation and not hear any deviation, the radios are performing very well. If they don't get the full 6 minutes of transmit before hearing a deviation, then there is a problem. I said that BTechs are junk because I have owned several mobile radios that failed within days/hours of ownership. I never mentioned the models, how I used them or what their duty cycle is rated for. Just to be sure there is no confusion.... I had two UV-50x2's which are rated for 100% duty cycle to build poor man repeaters (also has all remote control features built into it for remote management). I was only using them as mobile ham radios with light-duty use. They both broke extremely quickly while used, literally, for initial testing and configuration. Both radios had less than 20 minutes of total transmit time. The reason I think the handhelds are junk is because they are built with cheap plastic that has basically zero impact resistance. Also the transmit audio quality is terrible. For the same price as the BTech, I can buy something like an iCom or another mainstream, amazing performer that is also durable. The fact that the BTech units drifted a bit after the duty cycle was exceeded was never a consideration in my opinion of the handhelds. If you had good luck... God bless you. I haven't. I think after using radio's for work, recreation, and working in Electronics and IT for 27+ years, I'm pretty well experienced enough to develop a opinion on what is junk. You are welcome to disagree and have your own opinions based on your experiences, but please don't put words in my mouth.

I'm sorry... where did I say that? I must be missing something. Can you show me where I wrote that?

If you have two radios, you can do some informal testing. Get far enough away that you are 2x5 to 3x5, high power, wide-band, and talk for a little while. 20 minutes or so. Try to keep about 50% duty cycle. As long as no one changes location/position, you will be able to hear frequency shift if its bad. You will start to hear some distortion and the signal strength will weaken. Word clipping is more noticeable than the signal strength. Two of my mobile ham radios shifted permanently and became unusable. The first one after 4 days. The second in less than 4 hours. Both of my handhelds worked great for about a month, and then they would drift after 10-15 minutes, but would recenter after being off for 20-30 minutes.

I have to disagree that BTech is some kind of saving grace. First... I have purchased several BTech / Baofeng radios and all failed within weeks. The extra time and money spent trying to get them to work was ridiculous. Second, Motorola, Midland, and several other companies are selling much better quality radios for literally the same price as the BTechs. Last... and this is just my opinion... if a one-time investment of an $150 vs. $60 is a deal-breaker on a hobby (and again, you don't have to spend $150)... I think you have bigger things to consider in life than which radio you're wanting to buy.

I owned 2 Baofeng ham radios for a combined total of 2 weeks. I wouldn't give one to someone I don't like, because its too cruel. Do yourself a favor and forget they exist. Just my opinion.

The MXTTR is a neat little radio. The bundle is nice, too. I tried out the MXT115 and may buy one to install in my 2016 Challenger. I love the small form factor. The MXTA11 antenna is a great antenna. I go back and forth between a Tram quarter wave and the MXTA11. I use the Tram for short distances, truck to truck, while we are off-road in a group, but I run the MXTA11 when I need to talk longer distance or to use a repeater. It has a great match on the 467 MHz frequencies compared to the 1/4 wave Tram. That portable power supply looks really neat for a stationary unit. Could be a fun and useful tool to have setup at a camp site, etc. Kind of expensive for what you are getting... but has a wow factor as far as appearance goes, which is always a plus. If you are looking for a bit more range in the vehicle in an over the counter solution, the MXT400's are nice, too. I ended up buying three MXT400's to put in my off-road vehicles. There are a few folks here that don't like them for repeater use, but I have had really good luck with them. Using the MXTA11 and 5 watts, truck to truck in a densely wooded and hilly area, I get about 2.5 miles on the regular bases, and upwards of 5.5 miles. When I am at a high elevation (2,500+ ft) use high power (advertised 40, measured 35) I can talk 50+ miles and have full copy with no problems. I would recommend waiting for a short time before buying another new OTC radio. There are a few new radios that are in the process of getting type approval from the FCC that will likely perform a little better than the Midlands with regard to audio and transmit/receive on the upper channels. The Midland radios are all narrow band, but the upper channels are approved for wide band use. I know at least one of the radio's pending approval provide support for wide band use on those upper channels. I'm still fairly new to GMRS myself, so my experience is somewhat limited. There are some folks here who can give you some great advice on other radios that are available on the used market, which require programing, but perform very, very well. Hopefully, one of them can cover those options for you too.

What Midland bundle did you get? Radio and antenna? What models? What do you mean buy "upgrading"? What do you want to upgrade? Get better accessories or antenna? Can you tell us a bit about your primary and secondary use goals?

Glad to hear you are having luck with the Stryker. Environmental conditions will play heavily into how well your radio can receive a weak signal. If you have a received signal that is only 1 S unit, but you have 3 S units of stray noise around you, you will never hear the 1 S unit signal. If you drive out of the high noise area, even if you get further away, the reduction is RF noise will allow you to have a conversation with that station, even at 1 S unit, and be able to have a 100% copy. As far as placement goes, as long as they are spaced in a way that one doesn't fall within a physical harmonic, you should be fine. It's damn near impossible to do on purpose. It's very unlikely that you will do it by mistake. I have noticed that when I key my GMRS while in high power, the noise level on my HF gear goes up. Nothing unreasonable, but when the squelch is open, I can notice it. That's all. When the squelch is closed, there is no impact. I have a 120 watt RMS amp on my 10m radio. Whenever I use the amp, I turn the GMRS gear off. Though, I have never actually experienced any of my HF gear causing issues with my VHF or UHF gear. That sounds like an awesome setup!

CB is making a major comeback around here too. I am just south of DC and the OTR truckers use them for entertainment, assistance with getting around traffic without violating their route permits, etc.

Unless you only need to consistently talk a mile or two, you're wasting your time installing a CB antenna that is not a 114" whip. I have tested every single possible configuration on everything from motorcycles to a new 2019 Cascadia tractor. Even with the most well placed antenna and the best performing equipment, bottom loaded, center loaded and fiberglass wound antennas are all poor performers. The absolute best talking CB antenna that I found (aside from a 114" whip) is a 4' Firestick (5/8 wave) mounted on a 12" solid steel extension acting as part of the antenna (like a top-loaded antenna). That talked 11 miles as the crow flies, on AM, when mounted on the top of a tractor, 8 feet above the ground with 4 watts RMS. Same vehicle and radio with a 114" whip talked 42 miles as the crow flies on AM, using only 2.5 watts RMS. I don't know how far it could on low or high power, because we got tired of driving and gave up. The next two best antennas I tested are the Wilson 5000 and Wilson 1000. The only benefits to using those over the Firestick is you can also use them with a 600 watt PEP amp or 200 watt PEP amp (respectively) on 10 meters... assuming you're also a ham and are trying to keep your antenna count down. EDIT: To help improve your chances of getting good performance on the CB, be sure to buy a very high quality 18 foot transmission line with 259 connectors on both ends, and use a HD stud with a 259 input. The impedance balances out perfectly for a half wave. The half wave cable and the quarter wave ground-plain antenna give you a perfect full wave length from the output of the radio to the tip of the antenna.

Taking the lack of understanding of the rules out of the picture for a second... I think it's being discussed in GMRS groups because of channel sharing with FRS. I also think there is a lot of confusion due to the name "Family Radio Service". The name implies that it is for use by families, not businesses. Lets be honest... most people live by the concept of "when all else fails, read the directions." If purpose and rules are occasionally misinterpreted by the people trying to understand by reading them... you can imagine that people who don't, would be exponentially more confused. Just a thought anyway.

Welcome! Below is a link for the rules for GMRS. It should help a bit. Basically, plain English is fine. 10 codes are okay, but I never hear anyone use them except on CB. Most people just speak casually, as if on the phone. Roger, Mayday, and other radiotelephony on-air protocol and voice procedures are all acceptable. Especially in high signal to noise ratio comms. From what I gather, deceptive or coded comms to hide meaning is not aloud. In general, round robin in group chat, be courteous and most importantly, have fun! https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=97171040479f3204c959e615b906317d&mc=true&node=sp47.5.95.e&rgn=div6

The story in that link is pretty awesome! I love hearing about stuff like that.

I was thinking WiFi for the repeater remote control. Not for internet relay of GMRS. As far as point-to-point radio relay of the two repeaters, I agree... go for it. Unless there is something I am missing in the statutory code, the transmitter output power of a repeater is limited to 50 Watts, but there is no limit to ERP. If you build/buy a +20dbg directional antenna, you're able to get close to 5,000 watts ERP. With enough elevation, you should be able to talk to someone in Texas from Washington, DC.

The furthest I ever got a 800mw WiFi link was 17 miles. You need great, high gain directional antennas, but its inexpensive and supports a but of encryption methods.

2.5 ppm at 462 MHz is only 1155 Hz. That is very, very tight.

Almost all repeaters have a tail delay, meaning that after you stop transmitting, the repeater transmits for a second or so after you un-key. So, say something like "This is WQYV590, testing." When you un-key, listen for the transmit tail.

I would never buy solely into commercial networks. Don't get me wrong... I love my smartphone, but the regular failures and lack of coverage, even when everything on the commercial networks work correctly, are the very reasons "radio" comms are alive and well.