gman1971

@wayoverthere DMR sounds good when setup correctly and uses good radios. When DMR first got popular the only option was Motorola MotoTrbo repeaters and radios. None of the CCR market was building anything. Over time they did. I know of a few DMR repeaters that sound pretty good over the air. They are mostly MotoTrbo but some other LMR brands on the air also. On the other side there are a lot of "home brew" repeaters now on the air with MMDVM boards on analog radios. Most that get put up never get aligned or setup properly and don't have the audio quality of a LMR repeater. Mostly because many hams don't have the test gear required or the know how to set them up right.
Next issue is the subscribers. Again the CCR market has flourished and blanketed the market with cheap stuff. They don't sound as good and putting them over a home brew repeater makes it sound even worse. Some of us have learned the hard way after buying "economy" radios then spending a bit more on a true LMR radio the difference. Even though I have many high quality P25 radios I got suckered into the cheap DMR market when I wanted to dabble in DMR. Mostly because it was easy. The radio got used once. Its in a box. Sadly DMR is dead where I am so only listened when working in different cities. I did finally get an XPR7550 and its night and day from the MD I had. YMMV

I would agree, the property setup stuff sounds great. Even further, a Moto or Hunters DMR repeater is hard to setup badly out of the box. We have a handful of the multimode repeater that sound good, but the technical team that maintains these those are really good and have the proper equipment. The biggest problem with DMR repeaters appears to be maintaining a good reliable internet connection.
The Anytone sounds like junk no matter what, but it's loud, which is what many people like. Sound quality is exceptional on the XPR and SL radios, even on a hotspot. I even bought an SL7550 just for at home hotspot use, and it's always on the Ohio talkgroups 247. My CS800Ds do sound good, not as good as the Motos but much better than the trash Anytone.

69? you paid 30 too much... I paid 39.95 for each BF-1801, the same piece of crap garbage CCR as the GD77... 
G.

I left selling items on eBay when it started to become known as ePay, with shipping fees being highly recommended being paid by the seller and for the US Postal Service to be the carrier. As Radioguy 7268 mentioned, that pushed the cost up a lot. I was also tired of the buyer having all the power, and the seller having to keep up with the many scams being played upon them/me. I sold a Motorola Maxtrac service manual, and several people told me that $12.95 for shipping was too much, and that I could have placed that manual in an envelope. When I showed these people details, that the manual is in a 2.5 inch thick three ring binder and was insured for replacement amount, I lost money on shipping charges. 
Thank you OP for the warning on the IRS side of the situation, I hit that limit of $20k many years ago, and was just as fed up then. Local amateur club and cash is the way to go it would seem.

The COVID 19, 1.9 trillion dollar package that passed last year made a change to the tax code to "pay for it" (LOL) That change went into effect at the beginning of this year, Jan 1-2022, and that change is that anyone who uses Paypal, eBay, etc, will have a 1099 created and sent to the IRS automatically if they sell over $600.00 in a year (regardless of how many transactions). Prior amount was $20,000.00 in a year and 200 transactions.
Anyhow, those sites, Paypal, eBay, etc, will be asking for your social security number and other potentially sensitive information... so if you are worried about privacy and your SSN leaking out, etc, this might be a serious concern.
I think things like Paypal "Friends and Family" etc, are supposed to be excluded, but who knows...
DISCLAIMER: You have to declare to the IRS every dollar you earn as income... and all I am doing here is reminding people of what happened, for their consideration.
 
Anyhow, I've already noticed a sharp drop in 2nd hand radio equipment on eBay, in just this two past weeks..... so if you had plans on starting that XPR7550e collection from eBay... you might be too late...
Cheers.
G.

I think you might be able to use the VERTEX VXD-720 housing for the XPR6550 radio...
 
G.

A lot of companies don’t understand how their customers use their software. The Internet connection required to run it, license servers, dongles and all the rest of the crap really keeps me using older software that isn’t shackled 10 different ways. 
Some companies have legally purchased the software then go out and find a crack for it to avoid the hassles the licensing forces on users.

I know that some Kenwood diehards will disagree with me, that is fine, but I tried the NX stuff and they have measurably worse receivers, inferior audio and features that I didn't deem critical for our application. I reached the same conclusion as the other guys who chose APX over the NXDN stuff. Unfortunately, my budget didn't have an extra zero at the end of the check, otherwise I would've certainly chosen APX radios over the XPR as well...
XPR radios provide 100% crystal clear audio pretty much all the way to the end coverage, even in noisy environments, inside a car, inside a store... etc.
People who have the gain on ther mics +20dB, forcing me to lower the volume... etc...  is a thing of the past.... And the APX radios are even better from what people who own both keep telling me... and like I said before, unfortunately the budget isn't that rich to own and operate a fleet of APX8000 and APX8500...
G.

I know that some Kenwood diehards will disagree with me, that is fine, but I tried the NX stuff and they have measurably worse receivers, inferior audio and features that I didn't deem critical for our application. I reached the same conclusion as the other guys who chose APX over the NXDN stuff. Unfortunately, my budget didn't have an extra zero at the end of the check, otherwise I would've certainly chosen APX radios over the XPR as well...
XPR radios provide 100% crystal clear audio pretty much all the way to the end coverage, even in noisy environments, inside a car, inside a store... etc.
People who have the gain on ther mics +20dB, forcing me to lower the volume... etc...  is a thing of the past.... And the APX radios are even better from what people who own both keep telling me... and like I said before, unfortunately the budget isn't that rich to own and operate a fleet of APX8000 and APX8500...
G.

Very nice products is the understatement of the year... hahaha... mewantstwenty!!
I agree with the audio suffering in DMR if CCRs are used... on my system, everything is SL/XPR so the audio quality is pretty good. Isn't the older XTS radios use the IMBE vocoder vs the AMBE2 on the DMR and P25 Phase2 stuff?
 
G.
 

@WRAX515Agreed, XPR7550e FTW.... 
@PACNWComms Dodged a bullet with the Harris!! Now you are a true Motorolian empire warlord... 

That's too bad. I would have taken a couple of the XTS-5000's you trashed for free. A buddy got a used one for 800 MHz which he's using as a scanner for the local PD.
I have some Kenwood NX-200's and NX-300's for NXDN. They use the same VOCODER chip as the Kenwood P25 radios I've got.
https://purcellradio.com/Downloads/Radio/Kenwood/nx-200-300_brochure_nx-200-300-brochure.pdf
The sound quality should be about the same I would assume between the P25 and NXDN radios.

APX8000 and APX8500... not bad at all!!
 

This thread made me look up how long some of my DTR410's have held up. Looks like 2012 was when I put the first batch into service with a school. They only needed coverage on campus, and liked the fixed antenna as it would be harder to break, and the radio was cheaper than the DTR550/650's. I doubt a Retevis would hold up to ten years and counting of use/abuse by school personnel. The Retevis reminds me of the eXRS radios that also tried 900 MHz ISM band frequency hopping, at a lower price (about $100 per pair) that made me go big and buy Motorola instead. I still have those eXRS radios, I will not even give them away to anyone, they are that bad.
The only issue I ever had was a user that tried to plug the charging connector into the cradle (single cup) upside down. I then took a silver Sharpie to the Batwings and instructed users that the connector needs to show the Motorola symbol for the charger to work. There was enough slop in the spring contacts that the cable did connect, but was not making proper electrical connection. 

I picked up a nice clean XPR-6580 too for 900MHz. The guy selling it already has a code plug built for the Ham band. I did get a second one but for various reasons the calibration got screwed when I tried to revert it to analog/DMR from the trunking version of the software. That radio is sort of a junk one I’ll use to experiment on before mucking around with the good one.
The in memory software hack to get the CPS to accept frequencies down to 902MHz does work well. You just have to remember to do the hack each time you load the CPS and then the code plug you hopefully saved to disk. You can’t read the one in the radio out. The CPS will trash the out of range frequencies.

Papatree,

I took some S21 measurements of the inline SWR arrangement I am using in my shack that you might find helpful.

Scenario consists of a 3-Foot RG-58 cable with PL-259 on each end, an SW-102 meter, and PL-259 to BNC adapter. Insertion loss of the whole assembly for GMRS = 1dB.

First image is the test configuration.



2nd image represents insertion loss from 460-470MHz.


Third image represents insertion loss from 50MHz to 900MHz.



As you can see, insertion loss is less that 1dB at and below GMRS frequencies, but gets a bit wonky over 500MHz.

Thought you might appreciate seeing this.

Yeh, the pictures are a little dark, but you get the picture.

Whatever you say, Alex... and just like I said on my previous post, sometimes not even sleep can fix the problem... 
G.
 

Wrong, measured data proves that adding 6dB inside a forest did NOT yield double the range, adding 10dB on a more favorable frequency with a 5/8 wave antenna (vs a rubber duck) increased range only by about 2.7 times, at best, so a 6dB increase will NOT double the range inside a forest as you claim. Now, the data did prove that adding 120 feet of antenna elevation showed at least a four-fold increase in range, from <4 miles to at least 16 miles.  Do you have any data collected? or you just guess stuff up with some formulas? Back at a previous job I used to joke that everything done in simulation is doomed to succeed...
And where did you say that you ask? What about you just told Marc that going from .8W to 42W will likely experience a 2000% percent increase in distance.... , so adding x52 times the power yields a 2000% range increase too...  do you really guess this stuff?
I guess sometimes not even sleep can fix the problem, darling...
G.

And what would my opinion be? 
So, to clarify my opinion, b/c Michael seems to be putting words in my mouth that are not true: A Baofeng, or any cheap CCR its perfectly fine as your first radio, maybe even your second radio. That is my opinion. However, if you like the hobby, then anything after that the money should be better spent in a quality gear.  And personally, I would just cut to the chase and go straight to Motorola, why? B/c my range problems ended when I switched to Motorola... how ironic... the one brand that hams seem to despise the most... turned out to be the brand of radios that reaches the furthest...  but hams openly suggested buying more CCR garbage bags... I guess you can't argue with cheap.
Buying CCRs is just adding a lot of unneeded frustrations, especially if you are trying to setup your own repeater, and a waste of money in the long run... b/c just like me, you'll end up with ... Motorola.
Also, experience is just like an opinion...
G.

Showoff!! hahahahaha LOLOL...I am saving to get me one of those... but in the meantime, the RSSI meter on all my 7550e/5550e radios has been found accurate to <1 dB with various signal generators... so, while its not an Aeroflex service monitor, its certainly a huge step up from an s-meter, and when used in combination a spectrum analyzer/SG will give you a pretty good picture of what is going on.
G.

6dB loss is a waste, regardless of frequency. You are picking an argument with the wrong guy here.
1. At a very high level, on paper, more power would translate into more range on FREE SPACE, but that should be taken more like the exception than the rule. I know for a fact that TX IMD will trash your TX range no matter how much power you run as well, to the point of damaging stuff if you keep adding more power.
"More power equals more range" was the kind of really bad advice that people gave me when I got back into radio, along with buying garbage CCR radios with more power... and piss poor dynamic receiver sensitivity... 
2. First off, using s-meters to diagnose radio problems is like using chainsaws to do eye surgery... please, use a calibrated RSSI meter and a spectrum analyzer. Being in the fringe zone of your "s-meter" can mean a host of different things. Is the reading because your receiver is garbage? or is it because you are already operating at noise-floor? or is the other station radiation pattern pointed to the clouds?
If you want more range, add more filtering. That was what the best advice ever given to me (thanks Marc)
G.

6dB loss is a waste, regardless of frequency. You are picking an argument with the wrong guy here.
1. At a very high level, on paper, more power would translate into more range on FREE SPACE, but that should be taken more like the exception than the rule. I know for a fact that TX IMD will trash your TX range no matter how much power you run as well, to the point of damaging stuff if you keep adding more power.
"More power equals more range" was the kind of really bad advice that people gave me when I got back into radio, along with buying garbage CCR radios with more power... and piss poor dynamic receiver sensitivity... 
2. First off, using s-meters to diagnose radio problems is like using chainsaws to do eye surgery... please, use a calibrated RSSI meter and a spectrum analyzer. Being in the fringe zone of your "s-meter" can mean a host of different things. Is the reading because your receiver is garbage? or is it because you are already operating at noise-floor? or is the other station radiation pattern pointed to the clouds?
If you want more range, add more filtering. That was what the best advice ever given to me (thanks Marc)
G.

I've never done HF beyond some 4W CB in the late 80s/early 90s, so I don't have first hand experience with it. However, for VHF hi/UHF, the most important factor that determines RX range is receiver dynamic sensitivity and noise floor. For TX range, antenna radiation pattern and height are far more important than some power loss in the coax, followed quite closely by transmitter intermodulation distortion caused by other nearby high power TX... that is critical too... 
I personally think wasting 6dB is a waste, regardless of how good the rest of the system is. I can understand losing power to things one can't control, like planet alignment, sun flares, etc etc., but its under the radio operator control to make sure that the TX line is not burning 6dB through it...
G.

Marc is BACK!!

I'm not going to knock anyone for wanting the most out of their system... but what you're saying about RF signals in space is not correct. There are so many variables that are involved and some pretty complex math to calculate.
 
As far as on earth, same thing applies.  Space weather, Geomagnetic storms, and atmospheric propagation combined with good antenna design plays a much larger role than power.