gman1971

Good morning IronArcher.
 
When you have a poor SWR, the power readings on the SWR meter become exaggerated; read, inaccurate. The meter is merely incapable of accurately determining the radio’s real output power any longer due to timing of the various reflections in the cable. The radio is not actually outputting more.
 
It is in-fact this reflected power that, if too high, can lead to the failure of the output stage of your radio, which in-turn is one reason why we try to keep the SWR low.
 
One must use a non-reactive dummy load on the output end of SWR/Power meter to obtain your most accurate power reading.
 
Thought you might appreciate knowing this.
 
Regards
 
Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM
 
 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

And just to keep gMan comments consistent, here is my daily batwing recommendation, err... Motorolian Empire propaganda...
 
Get an XPR4550 UHF... I think you'll really like that radio.
 
Here is a good one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-XPR4550-Two-Way-Radio-AAM27QPH9LA1AN-403-470-MHz-25-40-WATT-UHF/114491711393?epid=1901496480&hash=item1aa83cdfa1:g:EhwAAOSwNDVfnQra
 
Mic here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RMN5052A-Mic-For-Motorola-XPR4300-XPR4300-XPR4500-XPR4550-XPR5550-XiRM8260-radio/124480973478?hash=item1cfba4eaa6:g:p1AAAOSw96Ff0lMp
 
Here is the cable:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Programming-Cable-441-Motorola-MOTOTRBO-XPR4550-XPR4580-XPR5350-PMKN4010B-USB/351924161247?hash=item51f0508adf:g:Kh0AAOxy0rZRFnXY
 
Here is the CPS:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Programming-Disk-CD-For-M-16-0-SL300-XPR7550-XPR4550-XPR6550-CM200D-CP200D-DMR/264975585174?hash=item3db1c68f96:g:YkcAAOSweMZc5GfY
 
That should get you started in the world of Motorola radios... if you need help with the programming send me a PM... I walk you through the basics. There are also a lot of Motorola CPS tutorials on youtube... either way.
 
/End of daily Motorolian Empire propaganda...
 
G.

Wow, you say you paid 69 dollars for that Bao...?? man, that is bad... sounds like you got ripped off...  I paid 29 bucks for an UV-82FHP (8w) back in 2018...  
 
G.

Well, I think you get heated more from sun exposure than by 25w VHF/UHF RF exposure... we are exposed to so much RF that a few extra watts here and there I don't think is going to make much of a difference in the long run...
 
 
G.

That is an excellent point regarding potential saturation of some components. It is a certainty that there will be some specific conditions where the presence of a static magnetic field in the presence of some equipment and components will have negative consequences and many where it will not. It comes down to the circuit, the components used, intensity of the field and degree of shielding among other factors.
 
Sounds like a great research project for one of our readers aspiring to get their PhD.
 
Best regards,
 
Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM
 
 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hi all.  I'm new here.  Posted the other day in some of the forums, but figured I'd make it official here.  I thought HTs would be good for keeping in touch with family that live near me.  One household is 5000 feet away in the next neighborhood and the other is 2 miles the opposite direction (both straight-line distances).  Looks like we're all going to have to upgrade to mobile/base stations with an elevated antenna. 
 
I receive on a repeater, but no idea if I could transmit through it (definitely not on the HTs unless there's an unmarked one very close).  The maps/DB here don't show any in a decent range.
 
I also thought I'd stop at GMRS, but will be taking the amateur tech license test in January.  I think I caught "the bug."  
 
I keep the money tree watered and fertilized, but no fruit yet.

Thanks for the detailed write up! I’ll have to go over it in more detail later. Out of all the CCR’s you tested which seems to be the best?

Select, copy, paste.  
 
Thanks G! 

Thanks Michael.  I had not considered shutting down various other home AC power circuits for my tests.  I’ll try it somehow, but it will be difficult (wife probably not going to appreciate me shutting down her internet/satelliteTV/phone/lights just so to test my radio system, but maybe I’ll wait till she’s napping, ha).  Some good nuggets there and your hybrid method seems like a sound approach.
 
And thank you also Gman and Admiral:
I am 11.2 km (6.95 miles) LOS from the Greater Houston antenna farm.  Wow!  I don’t know why I didn’t think about it before.  Here is some info from the internet about the farm:
 
“…eight antenna towers that provide television and FM radio broadcast capabilities for the Greater Houston area, serving 46 television stations (including digital, low power and translator stations), and 23 FM radio stations.”
 
Two of the towers there are about 2000 feet high and so must be some of those “angry RF firebreathing broadcast towers” Gman was talking about.  Being only 7 miles away, it’s likely I’m being blitzed as you suggested.  This does explain some things, but it also leaves me with a few more questions. 
Are the static blasts I’m receiving simply bleed-over from other frequencies, and not actually on 462.650? What triggers the blasts?  They only seem to occur randomly while someone is modulating, never during standby, and only last for 3-5 seconds, maybe once per minute or two. Why only is my one antenna is being affected?  Is it because it is the highest, and is external to my house/roof and thus the best for receiving?  The lower, inside the attic mounted antenna is not picking up the blasts even when I swap my primary radio to use it. I didn’t know what intermod was, or a preselector, but after you mentioned it, I Bing’d it and now have an idea.  I found THIS article on Intermodulation.  It is a long read, and way over my head, but the first section on “Symptoms” helps me understand things better.  A preselector could be a solution (albeit not a cheap one).  Such is my luck living so close to the fire-breathers (Gman, you've coined a new phrase).
 
And thank you too WRAK968.  I did try shutting down and moving my cell phone away from the radio (but not my wife’s phone because she stores it some 25+ feet away from my radios, but perhaps I’ll revisit that).  And I did move the Wifi as far away as I could, about 8 feet (side note: this seemed to have helped for a day or so, static burst volume was reduced, but not eliminated, and the test was inconclusive because the higher volume bursts returned the next day….I don’t know what to think of that).
 
I’m not giving up.  The fight goes on.  Thanks much guys, for all your input.  I very much appreciate this myGRMS.com website and you pros who respond to people with issues like mine.
 
Thomas
 
…

Yes, absolutely, Lscott.
 
Equipment needed.
-RSSI meter. (Motorola radios have RSSI meters built in, make sure its calibrated, all XPR radios I own are within 0.5 dB of each other, so they are good for the sake of this test)
-Signal Generator (use a calibrated RSSI meter to ensure the signal on the display is correct, used the XPR radios here to measure)
-50 Ohm dummy load, I use a 50W one, but for the receiver sens test only you don't need anything more than 1W. (for duplexer desense you need the large one)
-ISO-tee (directional coupler)
 
Procedure:
1) If you don't have a directional coupler and you don't want to buy one, you can build your own ISO-tee using an old SO-239/PL-259 T-adapter. You need a hacksaw and a file. Unbolt the PL-259 prong from the T-adapter first, cut it with a hacksaw so it barely touches, and then, if needed, gently file it until the measured isolation is around 20-30 dBm. Remember the T adapter already has a 3dBm isolation, and it doesn't take much to file it a bit too much, so, be careful: I ruined two T adapters before getting it right... To measure the ISO-tee isolation I used the XPR6550 RSSI meter with the Signal Generator. You can also install a 20 dB attenuator on one end too I've been told... or you can just go and buy one from eBay... 
 
2) Measure the site RSSI with no signal, this is the lowest signal the radio will be able to hear, for that I used the XPR6550/7550e RSSI meter. This is the best the radio can do, if the noise threshold is -107 dBm, it will never be able to hear a -115 dBm signal... no matter what. You want the radio to be as close to this figure. Perform the ISO-tee tests on several locations to see how different noise thresholds affect receiver. Useful for mobile application. Noise threshold is not receiver desense. Desense happens in addition to the noise threshold.
 
3) Measured absolute receiver sensivitty and squelch sensitivity on the radio. 
-Set SQL to threshold.
-Connect SG to radio directly with lowest possible signal. -130 is usually a good number to start.
-Increase signal dBm until SQL opens. Record this number.
-Reduce signal dBm until SQL closes completely. Record this number.
-Keep reducing signal dBm until RX led is no longer blinking. Record this number.
 
4) Connect ISO-tee as follows:
-The vertical part of the T-adapter to the signal generator (the one you cut/filed).
-The horizontal ends one goes to the radio, the other one to a 50ohm dummy load.
 
5) Measure dummy load sensitivity.
-Set SG signal strength to lowest possible dBm.
-Increase signal dBm until SQL opens. Record this number.
-Reduce signal dBm until SQL closes completely. Record this number.
-Keep reducing signal dBm until RX led is no longer blinking. Record this number.
 
6) Replace dummy load with the antenna the radio uses and measure sensitivity again.
-Set SG signal strength to lowest possible dBm.
-Increase signal dBm until SQL opens. Record this number.
-Reduce signal dBm until SQL closes completely. Record this number.
-Keep reducing signal dBm until RX led is no longer blinking. Record this number.
 
7) Subtract the RX led sensitivity figure recorded in step #5 minus the RX led sensitivity recorded in 6.
 
8) Subtract the result calculated in step #7 from the figure recorded in step #3. That is your "effective sensitivity" which can vary quite a bit depending on location.
 
9) Subtract the result from #7 from the noise level, that will give you the desense relative to noise floor.
 
10) Now repeat step 7 8 and 9 this for the figures calculated for SQL open and close if you operate in FM, remember to set SQL to threshold, or lowest setting possible. For FM operation Squelch Performance is critical, so you will determine using this test if the radio needs its squelch aligned, tuned... etc. 
 
--You can also use this procedure to evaluate duplexer performance and see if you need additional isolation on the RX side if its desensed b/c the transmitter...etc.
 
Once I performed this test on enough of my radios I started to see an emerging pattern, a trend. After all radios were measured, most commercial gear radios I own measured a typical 3-4 dBm "desense" over the noise floor in nearly all my use case conditions, whereas nearly all CCR stuff had an average of -13 dBm desense, in VHF, and about -17 dBm desense average in UHF, again under typical use case conditions.
 
EDIT: Another trend I noticed was that for nearly all CCRs, the higher the antenna gain, the higher the desense above noise threshold, or a decrease in effective sensitivity. Using my base antenna as the ISO-tee antenna, a triple 5/8 collinear at 40 feet up, the desense measured on several CCRs was pretty bad, but honorable supersuck mention goes to all the TYT and Retevis CCR radios tested (GD77, RT52, RT82, TYT MD760) The desense over the noise floor (which was measured at -119 dBm) was on the order of -38 dBm in VHF, and -43 in UHF... so all that gain that my base antenna, all 4.5 dBb, were demolished by the massive -43 dB desense coming from the CCR landfill of garbage... A total winner in my book to buy these pieces of garbage. With the GD77/RT52/RT82/MD760 the base antenna I couldn't hear a 50W mobile beyond 2 miles. With an EVX-539 portable mated to the same antenna I could hear the same mobile, on 25W, talking from 17 miles away. Again, same antenna.
 
 
G.
 
 

Yes, absolutely, Lscott.
 
Equipment needed.
-RSSI meter. (Motorola radios have RSSI meters built in, make sure its calibrated, all XPR radios I own are within 0.5 dB of each other, so they are good for the sake of this test)
-Signal Generator (use a calibrated RSSI meter to ensure the signal on the display is correct, used the XPR radios here to measure)
-50 Ohm dummy load, I use a 50W one, but for the receiver sens test only you don't need anything more than 1W. (for duplexer desense you need the large one)
-ISO-tee (directional coupler)
 
Procedure:
1) If you don't have a directional coupler and you don't want to buy one, you can build your own ISO-tee using an old SO-239/PL-259 T-adapter. You need a hacksaw and a file. Unbolt the PL-259 prong from the T-adapter first, cut it with a hacksaw so it barely touches, and then, if needed, gently file it until the measured isolation is around 20-30 dBm. Remember the T adapter already has a 3dBm isolation, and it doesn't take much to file it a bit too much, so, be careful: I ruined two T adapters before getting it right... To measure the ISO-tee isolation I used the XPR6550 RSSI meter with the Signal Generator. You can also install a 20 dB attenuator on one end too I've been told... or you can just go and buy one from eBay... 
 
2) Measure the site RSSI with no signal, this is the lowest signal the radio will be able to hear, for that I used the XPR6550/7550e RSSI meter. This is the best the radio can do, if the noise threshold is -107 dBm, it will never be able to hear a -115 dBm signal... no matter what. You want the radio to be as close to this figure. Perform the ISO-tee tests on several locations to see how different noise thresholds affect receiver. Useful for mobile application. Noise threshold is not receiver desense. Desense happens in addition to the noise threshold.
 
3) Measured absolute receiver sensivitty and squelch sensitivity on the radio. 
-Set SQL to threshold.
-Connect SG to radio directly with lowest possible signal. -130 is usually a good number to start.
-Increase signal dBm until SQL opens. Record this number.
-Reduce signal dBm until SQL closes completely. Record this number.
-Keep reducing signal dBm until RX led is no longer blinking. Record this number.
 
4) Connect ISO-tee as follows:
-The vertical part of the T-adapter to the signal generator (the one you cut/filed).
-The horizontal ends one goes to the radio, the other one to a 50ohm dummy load.
 
5) Measure dummy load sensitivity.
-Set SG signal strength to lowest possible dBm.
-Increase signal dBm until SQL opens. Record this number.
-Reduce signal dBm until SQL closes completely. Record this number.
-Keep reducing signal dBm until RX led is no longer blinking. Record this number.
 
6) Replace dummy load with the antenna the radio uses and measure sensitivity again.
-Set SG signal strength to lowest possible dBm.
-Increase signal dBm until SQL opens. Record this number.
-Reduce signal dBm until SQL closes completely. Record this number.
-Keep reducing signal dBm until RX led is no longer blinking. Record this number.
 
7) Subtract the RX led sensitivity figure recorded in step #5 minus the RX led sensitivity recorded in 6.
 
8) Subtract the result calculated in step #7 from the figure recorded in step #3. That is your "effective sensitivity" which can vary quite a bit depending on location.
 
9) Subtract the result from #7 from the noise level, that will give you the desense relative to noise floor.
 
10) Now repeat step 7 8 and 9 this for the figures calculated for SQL open and close if you operate in FM, remember to set SQL to threshold, or lowest setting possible. For FM operation Squelch Performance is critical, so you will determine using this test if the radio needs its squelch aligned, tuned... etc. 
 
--You can also use this procedure to evaluate duplexer performance and see if you need additional isolation on the RX side if its desensed b/c the transmitter...etc.
 
Once I performed this test on enough of my radios I started to see an emerging pattern, a trend. After all radios were measured, most commercial gear radios I own measured a typical 3-4 dBm "desense" over the noise floor in nearly all my use case conditions, whereas nearly all CCR stuff had an average of -13 dBm desense, in VHF, and about -17 dBm desense average in UHF, again under typical use case conditions.
 
EDIT: Another trend I noticed was that for nearly all CCRs, the higher the antenna gain, the higher the desense above noise threshold, or a decrease in effective sensitivity. Using my base antenna as the ISO-tee antenna, a triple 5/8 collinear at 40 feet up, the desense measured on several CCRs was pretty bad, but honorable supersuck mention goes to all the TYT and Retevis CCR radios tested (GD77, RT52, RT82, TYT MD760) The desense over the noise floor (which was measured at -119 dBm) was on the order of -38 dBm in VHF, and -43 in UHF... so all that gain that my base antenna, all 4.5 dBb, were demolished by the massive -43 dB desense coming from the CCR landfill of garbage... A total winner in my book to buy these pieces of garbage. With the GD77/RT52/RT82/MD760 the base antenna I couldn't hear a 50W mobile beyond 2 miles. With an EVX-539 portable mated to the same antenna I could hear the same mobile, on 25W, talking from 17 miles away. Again, same antenna.
 
 
G.
 
 

The issue is with the importers and manufacturer’s taking liberties that are counter the FCC regulations either explicitly or implicitly.
 
The FCC establishes technical criteria for devices that are intended to be used in only certain radio services, to maintain the integrity of the service and to serve the best interest of the people. Without this the service falls apart, quality/reliability degrades, and the service dies. Without it, the people are not happy. I will avoid all debate on how well they do it.
 
Each service is established with frequencies, emission types, power level limits, and how they are to be used and by whom. The radios manufactured are intended to be used in and for that service only, and intended to be operated by persons or organizations licensed to use them. Depending on the service, the persons may or may not be required to have any technical knowledge. It used to be it take a certain physical hardware design to achieve this. Certain models for certain services. This is all with the intent of making the service most useful and effective for the parties for which the service is intended to serve.
 
Technology has evolved. Current hardware design now makes it possible to design a radio that is technically capable of operating on wide range of frequencies, all types of emissions and wide range of power settings and of various qualities. That is great, as it makes it possible for a manufacturer to perhaps use the same radio innards to serve different purposes, a cost benefit to the manufacturer and consumer.
 
The problem comes in when the radios are not locked down to and limited to the service for which they are intended and the radios are available to persons that have limited or zero knowledge of the various services. A person gets a radio learns how to operate it and suddenly they transmitting on frequencies that adversely affect public service. Suddenly a person changes a setting and now digital communications is happening on frequencies reserved for FM. Radio only works well for for the masses when standards, rules and guidelines are followed.
 
Yeh, isn’t it cool that now any person can afford to buy a radio that costs only $25 and that can play havoc on the amateur frequencies, public service frequencies, GMRS and FRS frequencies, etc... all in one.
 
As a responsible licensed GMRS and Amateur Radio operator I want order on and to the airwaves. I want standards and I want the rules followed. Why, because it is this order that makes the airwaves useful when lots of people are using them.
 
So the issue ultimately is that some manufacturers are skirting the intent of the FCC regs and selling radios that can configured by the user to operate in services that they are not certified for and at a cost that makes proliferation of the products into the hands of the neophyte easy and for nearly nothing.
 
I reiterate a comment I made earlier. I own a recently FCC certified part 95e radio using just product supplied by the manufacture for that radio I can cause it to be suddenly have the ability to transmit on Amateur, public services, and private land mobile frequencies and at higher power than is allowed on some. Will I do it, no. Would others do it? Without a doubt. The point being, that should not be possible for a current generations GMRS radio without internals modification. This is where the manufacturer’s should be held accountable.
 
Sadly, the offending manufacturers are all seem to be Chinese based and we do not have the ability fine them or shut them down. Then you have importers like Rugged Radio that appear to be complicit and take advantage of and propagate the weakness.
 
Sadly, it is cost prohibitive to enforce the rules at the end-user level. We, the tax payers cannot afford that. Instead you need to go to the source of the problem - Manufacturers and Importers.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Michael
WHRS965
KE8PLM
 
 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Uh... has this topic been discussed beyond death yet?

It will not be an issue,
 
I have built a couple "Go Boxes" in Ammo Cans with speakers and without
 
Works great

Well, I am looking to see how many other GRMS users are in the area... don't need a repeater to to talk to myself

For our MyGMRS members in Tennessee, Missouri and Arkansas - A "Critter Alert"...
 
Wild alligators have been migrating north from Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida and Georgia for many years. The State Wildlife Departments in Arkansas, Tennessee and Missouri have confirmed breeding populations present in these somewhat cooler states. According to wildlife officials, even though alligators are cold blooded and can not regulate their internal body temperature without warming themselves in the sun, they can survive cool winters by going into a hibernation-like dormancy called brumation. They can withstand periods of ice by sticking their snout out of the water before it freezes, which allows them to continue breathing.
 
This is just a caution for our friends in states that are normally not thought of as having large reptiles present. Alligators up to 11 feet in length, weighing up to 600 pounds have been confirmed in wetland areas of these states.
 
Having personally encountered 'gators in Alabama, let me just add that if you do happen to encounter an alligator in the wild during the warmer months of the year, do not approach them. An alligator can move at close to 30 miles per hour for short periods of time. Female alligators protect their young viciously and are most aggressive in August and September. However, if humans enter their territory, they will protect their habitat. That makes us the specialty of the day on their dinner menu.
 

I don’t want to derail this thread, but at least it is related. G, perhaps if you have some test equipment around that you could mock up a couple of tests for us. If interested, perhaps we could start a new thread. One test could be the effect on transmitter output signal integrity and another on the receiver performance before and after placement of a large static magnet field (large rare earth) directly on the exterior of a UHF radio chassis. Similar tests could also be conducted covering the effect on transmission line performance in the presence of same. I don’t have ready access to the caliber of equipment needed for this so I cannot mock it up and measure it. Admitted that is probably a better topic for those in the amateur community rather than in GMRS. Just a thought.
 
Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM
 
 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

As a current example, I just bought a "new, open stock" XPR5550 (not the 'e' version) for $300. I've had the CPS for several years but did have to buy a programming cable for it. The cable from "BlueMaxers" was ~$30. 
 
Now I can't find the programming cable for my darn XPR7550!

i will agree with that point as well.  there's a wide variety of quality levels.
 
that said, i see mobile as jumping into things a little deeper than just a HT, so more of a situation where if you can get "good" instead of "subpar",  for not much more, it's worth considering.

No one arguing here. I will make one point that I think is worth noting. Rules written poorly will be twisted, turned and interpreted a million different ways. Well written ones are clear, concise and explicit. However when rules are written the latter way people will complain. They will say they are strict, to inflexible. <sigh>
 
Perhaps the FCC rules should be reclassified as “Recommendations”.
 
Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM
 
 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

A gremlin indeed. While you will invariable receive loads of ideas, I will start by throwing out the first one that came to my mind. Do with it what you will.
 
Confirm you have a set of conditions that are repeatable every single time.
 
Turn off AC power circuits in your home, except the circuit needed to perform your tests. Confirm if the symptom persists. It it does not persist, something powered by one the circuits you turned off is contributing. Power up one circuit at time until you find a circuit that results in the symptom occurring again. Then troubleshoot further by removing power (unplugging/removing) items from that circuit. Once you find the culprit, then we talk solutions.
 
If turning off circuits except the one needed for your tests does not yield results, then troubleshoot further by removing power (unplugging/removing) items from that circuit. Do this one at time until you find the culprit. Once you find the culprit, then we talk solutions.
 
If removing items from test circuit does not yield results and the only thing left connected is the offending radio, then starting powering down all battery operated devices in your home, including any device powered by a UPS. This includes cell phones, iPads, laptops etc... Blasts of GSM noise from a phone has been a common source of interface in the past and can be suspect. You could have other items in your home that contribute interference in a similar way.
 
I am one that most generally likes to remove all variables and build back up until the problem occurs. In this case I am taking a hybrid solution.
 
Hope there is a nugget of help in there for you.
 
Michael
WHRS965
KE8PLM
 
 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You touch on an interesting, and IMHO too often overlooked point here. People should buy equipment that is suited for their application.  If you run a kid's day camp in a park and everyone is always within 1/2 mile, then the dirt cheap Amazon CCR special of the day may be perfect. They will cover 100% of your terrain, they can get lost, crushed, have lemonade spilled on them, etc with no worries.  On the other hand, if you are organizing a search & rescue team you would have to be bat shit crazy to get anything other than high quality Part-90 equipment.
 
Of course, the world is not binary, and there are other applications that require a lot more thought. If you are getting into UHF (GMRS or ham) as a general hobby, and do not know exactly where you will be everyday, or whom you will contact, or how (simplex or repeater) you are going to make contact, you have to look carefully at your budget and priorities before making a decision. And, of course, it is not as simple as Baofeng-888 vs Moto XPR5550e. There are high end CCRS and low end pro equipment, etc, etc.
 
To me the key point in all of this is to learn how radios work and what makes one different from an other. That knowledge, coupled with clarity on your needs will help you make the right decision.  And, building on that, the right response to "I am new to GMRS, what radio should I get?", is none, until you understand the differences and how you will use it.

Its pointless arguing with this kind of posts, b/c they lack any basis on reality, and they are usually posted by the likes of ... trolls, looking to sow doubt, and stir trouble...
 
But I'll bite...
 
First off, Motorola high end radios are not "Made in China", it seems as if you've never owned one, and it figures... they are "Made in Malaysia."
 
Also, by the same argument of where things are made, and just to pick an example: iPhones are made in China, but so are a lot of other pieces of crap no-brand phones too...  and even though iPhones aren't my thing, I would still pick an iPhone over the no-brand POS phone... if the iPhone was too expensive new, and iPhones where, again, my thing, then I would simply buy a used iPhone... which is still leaps and bounds better than the cheap garbage phone... well, the same thing applies to radios. Most people like to walk around with a fancy S20s, or whatever the latest fancy phone happens to be... but then we purchase these pieces of garbage radios?
 
Using the word "supposed" means its your opinion, and everyone has one. With that said, after measuring many of these radios with an ISO-tee, an industry standard test to diagnose receiver problems, the observed average desense in all those CCR radios was found to be around 15 dBm when compared to high end commercial grade radios, like the XPR5550e... A 15dBm difference is the equivalent of running, roughly, x16 times more power on the transmitter... but it is safe to assume that you have no idea what I am talking about, b/c you just called me a "naysayer" for sharing the results from my ISO-tee tests, and made claims devoid of any basis except for the sake of just discrediting others by sowing doubts. Not sure what to make out of that...
 
If you need moving your HT 6" around chances are you have a piece of garbage. I don't need to move any of my many XPR7550e radios to listen to base, b/c they just receive, they work, all the time... I don't like having my radios cut in and out when I am working either... but I guess that is par for the course with those CCRs... and trust me, I remember well... I still own a lot of them...
 
The legal argument to scare beginners into buying garbage radios, or the "beware of overpaying" for used commercial gear scare tactic, also geared towards scaring beginners into buying garbage radios, both are just misleading at best, won't go into what worst could be... which begs the question, are you getting paid by those companies to advertise their junk here? Using Part 90 radios on GMRS has never been a problem, it isn't a problem and it will never be a problem, b/c there isn't a shred of evidence the FCC has ever fined or taken any action based solely on the Part 90 radios, however, using pieces of garbage Part 15 CCRs, a scanner, with a PTT, actions have been taken, see Rugged Radios FCC letter... Part 90 equipment is certified to a stricter standard than the Part 95 toys you so much claim to be comparable to used commercial gear. Now, If you think you're overpaying, or getting ripped off, then you can always ask around, I did, and others have asked me, people can give you a good estimate on how much something is worth, but there is also the "completed items" option on eBay, which gives you an idea of how much something is going for... etc.
 
Also, based on how much the OP's paid, it seems that he got ripped off for a 199 CCR.So, as you can see, you can get ripped off no matter what, buying new or used, CCR or used commercial gear. I've even seen BF-888s being sold for 199 bucks a unit... 
 
G.
 

Its pointless arguing with this kind of posts, b/c they lack any basis on reality, and they are usually posted by the likes of ... trolls, looking to sow doubt, and stir trouble...
 
But I'll bite...
 
First off, Motorola high end radios are not "Made in China", it seems as if you've never owned one, and it figures... they are "Made in Malaysia."
 
Also, by the same argument of where things are made, and just to pick an example: iPhones are made in China, but so are a lot of other pieces of crap no-brand phones too...  and even though iPhones aren't my thing, I would still pick an iPhone over the no-brand POS phone... if the iPhone was too expensive new, and iPhones where, again, my thing, then I would simply buy a used iPhone... which is still leaps and bounds better than the cheap garbage phone... well, the same thing applies to radios. Most people like to walk around with a fancy S20s, or whatever the latest fancy phone happens to be... but then we purchase these pieces of garbage radios?
 
Using the word "supposed" means its your opinion, and everyone has one. With that said, after measuring many of these radios with an ISO-tee, an industry standard test to diagnose receiver problems, the observed average desense in all those CCR radios was found to be around 15 dBm when compared to high end commercial grade radios, like the XPR5550e... A 15dBm difference is the equivalent of running, roughly, x16 times more power on the transmitter... but it is safe to assume that you have no idea what I am talking about, b/c you just called me a "naysayer" for sharing the results from my ISO-tee tests, and made claims devoid of any basis except for the sake of just discrediting others by sowing doubts. Not sure what to make out of that...
 
If you need moving your HT 6" around chances are you have a piece of garbage. I don't need to move any of my many XPR7550e radios to listen to base, b/c they just receive, they work, all the time... I don't like having my radios cut in and out when I am working either... but I guess that is par for the course with those CCRs... and trust me, I remember well... I still own a lot of them...
 
The legal argument to scare beginners into buying garbage radios, or the "beware of overpaying" for used commercial gear scare tactic, also geared towards scaring beginners into buying garbage radios, both are just misleading at best, won't go into what worst could be... which begs the question, are you getting paid by those companies to advertise their junk here? Using Part 90 radios on GMRS has never been a problem, it isn't a problem and it will never be a problem, b/c there isn't a shred of evidence the FCC has ever fined or taken any action based solely on the Part 90 radios, however, using pieces of garbage Part 15 CCRs, a scanner, with a PTT, actions have been taken, see Rugged Radios FCC letter... Part 90 equipment is certified to a stricter standard than the Part 95 toys you so much claim to be comparable to used commercial gear. Now, If you think you're overpaying, or getting ripped off, then you can always ask around, I did, and others have asked me, people can give you a good estimate on how much something is worth, but there is also the "completed items" option on eBay, which gives you an idea of how much something is going for... etc.
 
Also, based on how much the OP's paid, it seems that he got ripped off for a 199 CCR.So, as you can see, you can get ripped off no matter what, buying new or used, CCR or used commercial gear. I've even seen BF-888s being sold for 199 bucks a unit... 
 
G.
 

Suite yourself. I was only trying to help you. Just keep in mind, GMRS is not really a stepping stone to ham radio. They are two separate services, each with its own purpose.  Many, many people start with ham radio because it provides what they are looking for in a general radio service. GMRS, on the other hand, while usable for local communications with strangers, like ham 440mHz, is historically, and still to a large extent, designed for communications within existing groups, like families. This is apparent from the licensing model.  For that reason. it is quite possible that you will find, as you seem to have already noticed, that there may be few to no people to talk to.  
 
And, a final point to make all of this clear. There is no GMRS equivalent of "CQ."