gman1971

And the new Motorola MotoTRBO R7 is almost upon us...
https://fccid.io/AZ489FT7143
Large screen, same antenna, same charger, same belt clip, different batteries and different connector port... so APX/current XPR microphones won't be compatible with it. 
The only thing I consider an upgrade in my book, from just skimming through the FCC application is the larger screen...  I like large screens (who doesn't LOL).... but receiver specs are yet to be seen how they stack to the XPR7550e... and unless they are on another dimension good, I'll stick to the good old XPR7550e for the foreseable future. Also pricing on this thing is going to be APX level of expensive... so at that point I think it will be better to just go with APX radios altogether.
I'll reserve judgment until I see some reviews and videos of the radio, but it looks to me like the XPR7550e might be the last of a kind... 
G.

Certainly, I should probably go to Linux, but I never did get around that. I have way too many things installed running on windows that at this point its just easier for me to stay on Win7 than move to anything else. I upgraded machine a year back, just to get the most powerful machine that still runs Win7 which should last me to the end of the decade...
I stopped purchasing new software because none of the new stuff has/does anything I really need... Word? Excel? Powerpoint? I still run my legal Office 2007 copy. Works perfect, doesn't dial home, allows me to type what I want, just like every other software I own, no dialing home, no BS. And since I only visit a few internet sites, so long a browser still works on Win7, I am good.
G.

Hats off, impressive analyzer... maybe some day I'll be able to afford one. 
Yeah, as for the Microsoft... I know exactly the feeling, that is why I am staying on Windows 7. I have a machine that should last me no problem to the end of the decade, if not more, for what I need to do with it; and then, I'll see if M$$ has gotten their heads out of their rear ends with Windows 12 or 13, or whatever, or even if its even still in business... LOL
Yep, XPR7550e is where its at IMO. I am running 2.09 on the entire fleet, no plans to upgrade to anything beyond that. I plan on keeping this radios until there are no parts available for them.
With that said, the inevitable replacement for the XPR7550e is coming out in 2 weeks . I'll reserve judgement on the new radio until there are multiple reviews on it, but the fact that it won't run the trusty 2.09 fw is already a con, as it will make me, for the first time in 2 years, have to use 2 CPS programs. The most important part, IMO, the receiver, I don't expect it to improve drastically, if at all; not given the fact that the new MotoTRBO XPR ION uses the same exact receiver as the XPR7550e, and then there is the whole chip shortage... so who knows. Currently, the XPR7550e already has the best portable digital receiver on any radio for <1k, and then some more. I've also found that my problematic areas are not due to lack of reach, is due to abnormally high noise floors, it is hard to do anything when the noise floor at an intersection is -85 dBm...
I love the idea of a larger screen, but then again, since I EDC my radio on my belt, having a giant screen is not a prime need. Now, don't get me wrong, would love to have it, and even more so if you handheld it, but for belt duty with a remote microphone there is no justification to get one just for the larger screen. Also there is the whole battery type and accessory connector port, will it be the same as the current XPR 7550e radios? or will it use a different battery type? What about a different accessory port? Same as the current line?
Last but not least, the cost. I don't expect to find the new radio for <350 bucks on eBay any time soon... so that will put the radio out of my reach for a while.
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@WRKC935 These radios are, AFAIK, all direct conversion receivers. So, there should be no first stage like a classical dual conversion superheterodyne. When the external signals exceed the "bandwidth" it has to reduce gain to fit everything within the bandwidth, otherwise you'll hear a cacophony of intermod mess.
A tracking filter that would allow for such DC to daylight listening capabilities would be far more expensive that can be fitted on a $9.95 Baofeng (overpriced to cost x5 times that sadly)...  The HF ICOM radios that have these type of sweet tracking filters cost like $3500-$13000... so... there is that.
You can help these CCRs with a preselector, or a cavity, it will be good enough, but portability and some sensitivity will be lost... so... that is one tradeoff.
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Got the radio today, genuinely impressed with it. It is certainly a huge step up from the AT-878 I tested (and returned). I would say its closer to Hytera territory in terms of RF performance; except this one is a tribander (rather than a single band radio). I think the specs printed on the brochure, based on quick testing, appear to be worse what the radio is capable of: Sensitivity is probably closer to the 0.16uV @ 12dB SINAD mark than the advertised 0.25 uV @ 12dB SINAD. It also doesn't seem to be hammered as bad as the TM-V71a on VHF with intermod, and the NOAA station that pops in and out of whatever channel I am parked at on the TM-v71a doesn't seem to be an issue with this radio, so that is huge. I will bench this radio vs the EVX-5300, hopefully tomorrow, so I can see how well it receives.
 
So, it has true dual receive, crossband repeat, and a single frequency repeater in DMR... which is awesome, so you can use a single frequency to link multiple radios... nifty little toy. You can have the audio come from the microphone, rather than the radio body, which is very nice too. So for my velomobile I can hide the radio and just leave the microphone. I will probably link the radio to my helmet Senna Bluetooth intercom, see how well it works. (haven't tried that yet)
 
Radio is fairly small, when compared to the XPR5550e this thing is a little radio; while not as short as the EVX-5300, its about the same width and height. fan is dead silent. No faceplate relocation kit as of yet, but it seems it might be coming since its just a ribbon cable with a small GPS micro coax connector, similar to the XPR radios. The included Bluetooth PTT is super nice, but requires disabling the single frequency repeater, not sure if this will change down the road. In my TYT8000E the Crossband repeater mode allows for using the radio as well, so not sure why the radio won't transmit on the band its selected.
 
There were a couple of bugs on the software that crashed to desktop, but other than that, the software seems to work well, wish it was as versatile as the Vertex CE142 CPS for some of the input stuff. I had the codeplug made from the 878 I tested (and returned) a few months ago.
 
I changed the band mode to allow for GMRS operation, with no front panel programming, nor VFO. Want to keep this like a commercial radio.  However, if need be I can re-enable that functionality back with the software, but needs a PC to do that.
 
For GMRS is probably a bit overkill, but for ham and/or commercial usage its a great radio. Wish it had airband too, and there is room in the PCB for a third receiver, which is unimplemented ATM, but when that happens I will be selling both my TM-v71A radios... listening to airband is the only reason why I am keeping those Kenwoods around. Being able to hear all the Mototrbo traffic from nearby business in both VHF and UHF is super cool; can't do that with the TM-v71a anymore... most of the stuff I hear around my house is all DMR these days... 
 
G.

I've always used a trusty old needle power meter to measure radio power... and its been pretty accurate so far, but I wanted something digital, etc.
So, I picked one of those just to see what the fuss was all about, at the time it seemed like a nice device, had digital readout, etc. I also keep seeing everyone in this board using one to measure stuff, so wanted to see first hand how accurate they really are, and potentially keep it.
Anyhow, first radio to be tested is one of my XPR5550e, placed it on the SW-102 meter, using a 50ohm dummy load, press PTT and... boom, my 5550e is now pumping 79W... hahaha.... I know the Motorola is calibrated to put 50W. Put a CDM1550LS? boom, this one is pumping 85W holy cow... I didn't know Motorolas were that good LOLOL.  I then connect it to a Vertex EVX-5300? and same deal: 78w, another EVX-5300? same thing, 80W. Then take one of my XPR6550 with SMA, low power is supposed to be 1W, not for the Surecom, it reads 1.85W, another 6550, same deal, 1.79W. high power? 6.98W... its a 4W radio... 
So I fire up the Antyone AT-578U/V just to see what is going on, the turbo mode yields 82W... Get the TM-V71a out mothballs? same deal, 79W. Basically, all my 50W mobiles read around 80W on this Surecom trash... that is super accurate. 
Then the SWR readings are also off, it reads a WHOLE lot lower than the real deal. I have several VNA analyzers and all of them agree within a small return loss percentage... even my old trusty needle meter is more accurate than this POS. 
Maybe its measuring using Cheap China waaatts, or waeetts, or maybe China Lumens like those 50000 lumen flashlights, maybe to make radios look better?... who knows, right? my advice after trying this turd is to dump it like a hot potato and get a Bird meter... or something else that is actually calibrated using standard Watts.
So, there you have it: buy cheap trash, expect piss poor outcomes.
Returning it as I type.
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Yep, I can certainly vouch for that. Since putting a super high gain antenna high up, the analyzer was reading a massive noise threshold.... needed 2 cans (cavities) to bring it down to an "acceptable" level.
 
I think the radio range these days, aside from more TX power, is also limited by receiver being overloaded by RF noise; b/c after finding out the noise threshold at my location I was blown away how high it was... so if you don't have a radio that has a tight front end you won't receive signals from very far...
 
Don't sell yourself short, Marc, you are being helpful to others, and nobody knows everything.... point is that sometimes little tidbits like that are the eureka moment that makes it, even for knowledgeable ppl.
 
G.

Yep, for LMR we use only the three letter acronym security, but even Basic Privacy on most Motorola XPR radios will thwart all CCRs and scanners.
 
DTR radios will also stop guys like Lscott in their tracks... LOLOL
 
G.

All good questions, all of which I don't know the answers.
 
But as a thought, (please don't burn me for the heresy hahahaha) why not make ALL channels narrowband 12.5, and split all the GMRS into 2 channels each? Should give more channels, potentially allow some sort of trunking?, and as a standard make the upper part of each wideband digital ONLY and the lower part of the old wideband channel ANALOG only. Again, just as a thought. Instead of 22 channels (excluding FRS and including GMRS repeater input) we would have 44 GMRS channels to chose from, so we could run more stuff and double the amount of pairs for repeater usage. But I am aware that it will be a massive change in regulations... so perhaps is not possible to implement.
 
 
G.

I'll bite!  
Well, since GMRS/FRS is meant to be "easy to use" I'd say replicate what the DTR radios on the 900mhz band are doing. Set a 16-bit or 20-bit pseudo random FHSS sequence and have them hop in the upper 12.5kHz of every wideband GMRS channel, and use the whole 12.5kHz for the FRS channels.
IMO. it doesn't get any simpler than that. Eiter 65k channels, or 1M channels, depending on 16 or 20 bit for the random FHSS sequence.
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wayoverthere and WRAK968 pretty much nailed it. Shame RAS cannot be used on FM sometimes...

I would say NanoVNA v2, it does everything you'll need.
 
 
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My first GMRS radio...

My current GMRS radio... 

G.

Well, its still a repeater, even it has limitations...
I think it can be done, but given the plethora of digital formats and modulations already in existence, throwing one more in the mix might not make much sense... we'll see.
G.

Agreed, FHSS makes so much sense, IMO, makes you hope they'll do the same for other crowded bands... it will make sharing the airwaves a lot easier too...
G.

THANKS...I found the ten-channel expandability in the software too, though I have no radios yet, so I was not aware that it would actually work. I suspect that Motorola will change that "flaw" eventually, either for all existing units, for newer ones, or will update that software with some extra bells and whistles but only six channels. Sounds like FHSS is the way to go, but will we be saying the same thing in a few years about 2.4GHz or 5GHZ compared to 900MHz? Whoever suspected that we would be walking around with phones on those bands with hidden antennæ?

The pair of DLR 1060 is here, and I had a chance to play with them in suburban environment. The setting was simple: Operator1 is riding bicycle around, Operator2 is stationary at the BBQ table at public park. Communications were happening via a pair of TK-3170 and a pair of DLRs. TK-3170 were configured at wide-band full power (4W) with DPL. DLRs are on default setting: Channel 1, no PIN. So, the DLRs did not outshoot Kenwoods, but were not than much far behind. When we lost comms on DLRs, Kenwoods demonstrated a lot of white noise, and while squelch broke reliably and spoken words were 100% discernible, my experience tells me that we would lost comms via Kenwoods in about quarter of mile. Two experiments were performed.
Experiment 1: Across the park, quarries and along the river bank with minimal obstacles. Trees are rare and foliage is not dense. Not exactly open field, but close. Comms failed when our line of sight started to go through the suburban subdivision. Distance was 1.75 miles.
Experiment 2: Through dense suburban subdivision with 1- and 2-story homes on small lots. Comms failed at approx 0.75 miles.
Unfortunately, I was not able to borrow better FRS radios like GXT1000 to make a direct comparison. But DLRs were not much worse than full-power TK-3170s, so they will leave FRS in the dust, especially crappier ones. DLR is seriously smaller and lighter  than old brick TK-3170. It can sit in the front pocket of shorts and does not impede bicycle riding, while there is no way I can stuff 3170 into the pocket, it must be on the belt.
Next test is in the mountains, but it's not going to happen soon because of some time constrains in the coming month. Besides, Operator2, colleague and friend,  borrowed DLRs for their family outing over the weekend.

we can see which poison i've chosen...tinkering.  better half asked me the other day..."when did you get so many radios?"

The "bottom line", or the "bottom of the line"... pick your poison...
G.

Absolutely, the CCRs took the market by storm. And back in 2017ish, at 9.95 for a BF-888s with Prime, shipped to your home was a thing... and I bought like 20 of those... which, at the time, If you needed something to get you by, without having to deal with old/used stuff, that was pretty much unbeatable. During that time, most of the stuff worth owning from Motorola was quite expensive too... maybe the XPR6550 was somewhat affordable, but even that was still quite expensive at the time.
Well, the same fate that happened to the US companies in the 70s/80s when the Japanese flooded the market with cheaper radios, its happening now to Japanese companies as well... Japanese people nowadays make a lot of money a year too, so the cheap inrush of radio stuff is no more... and Japan is now more like the US in terms of pay, and for any decent radio they make, its priced accordingly... you won't find any NX-5200 for 49.95 + Prime, that is for sure.
Uncertain where/how the bottom of the barrel Motorola stands in terms of performance... maybe its worth owning some, at least given the expensive prices of even the CCRs are going for right now. 
The old Moto stuff if you can find good deals is really hard to beat. Sure, I am not going to argue that it will require some time investment to grasp the CPS and the other stuff that would've came pre-programmed on dedicated GMRS radios... but again, it would also seem that a lot of the people who post here are also radioaficionados too, so having to program a more complex CPS shouldn't be too bad... IMO.
Now, for people who are not into radios at all, etc, I wouldn't recommend anything that requires any sort of tinkering.... just get the beers and pretzels Walmart Midland bubble pack and don't look back... 
I'd still take a Midland over non American brands... even if Midland is ultimately made in China... 
G.

Price, absolutely. Unfortunately, once their radios start to cope with the best of the best, price will be similar, so it won't be CCR anymore. 
They can do it b/c you are talking about employees being paid several thousands of dollars a month, vs employees being paid, if that, several thousands a year. So, the cost of living hasn't caught up there, yet, but it will eventually happen, and maybe the Baofengs will still be around, maybe not, but there will be the same thing as Japanese in the 70s-80s... however, I think that was a different situation than what we are in right now. Feels like in the 70s/80s the US failed to embrace the mass producing ideas they put into practice when Japan was rebuilt after WW2...
Its hard to compete against someone who steals your tech and packages it and sells it for 1/100th of the price...
 
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Price, absolutely. Unfortunately, once their radios start to cope with the best of the best, price will be similar, so it won't be CCR anymore. 
They can do it b/c you are talking about employees being paid several thousands of dollars a month, vs employees being paid, if that, several thousands a year. So, the cost of living hasn't caught up there, yet, but it will eventually happen, and maybe the Baofengs will still be around, maybe not, but there will be the same thing as Japanese in the 70s-80s... however, I think that was a different situation than what we are in right now. Feels like in the 70s/80s the US failed to embrace the mass producing ideas they put into practice when Japan was rebuilt after WW2...
Its hard to compete against someone who steals your tech and packages it and sells it for 1/100th of the price...
 
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Will do, thank you.
Working through initial setup teething. got ahold of CPS 16 and it straight refuses to load on the laptop. Tried it on another computer and it loads, but it isn't recognizing the radio. Going to grab the 6550 from the post office tomorrow, and see if that will play nicer.

@wayoverthereif you need help with XPR codeplugs, just PM me.
Cheers.
G.

No.  Lately you’ve been doing a great job of making your points without the vitriol. I’m very impressed.