mbrun

Yeh, the bottom image looks incorrect for the channel 16 repeater operation. Should be 467.575, not 462.575. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So I thought I would share the results from a quick experiment I performed today. Nothing with the transceiver, but instead with feed-line (coax type). My test objective was to see if the introduction of a static magnetic field would cause the displayed results from live VNA S11 measurements to change. I began by calibrating my NanoVNA H4. Then I connected a 12’ length of RG-58 to the VNA, and terminated with other end of cable with a 50 ohm dummy load. With simultaneously stable readings appearing on the VNA (Smith chart, SWR, MagLog) I tried all of the following: 1) Placed neodymium magnets next to the coax, approaching slowing and then rapidly. 2) Removed the magnets from the coax slowly and rapidly. 3) Placed magnets on both sides of the cable and then moved them up and down the cable at various speeds. First slowly, then as rapidly as I could. I performed the experiments using the frequency range of 450-480 MHz. Then again with the range of 50-900 MHz. During the tests, I observed no visual change in the results displayed on the VNA under the conditions described. No blips, bumps, contouring at all. This suggests to me that non of my actions had any notable affect on the frequencies under test. Take it for what it is worth. Merely an experiment performed for which I thought I would share the results. Simple and fun. Do need read anything into this test with regards to the transceiver. Regards all. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It is agreed that the information is readily available if one has the callsign. I use the ULS directly and frequently. I must admit I have on multiple occasions just wanted to know what city a particular poster was on in by looking up their profile via the post. At least in TapaTalk, the app I use for MyGRMS, the city and state does not appear there. I wish it did. Michael Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Good Morning STTScott. I occurs to me that you could be an an excellent position to do something for the MyGMRS community here. That is, assuming you do move forward with a linear for your HH in the car. It would be useful to report back your actual range in a given direction with your HH and mobile antenna and HH-Linear-mobile antenna when communicating with the same base location on the same day. Your experience could quantity for others what percentage of distance one might realistically expect to achieve achieve with that extra power, all else remaining equal. Give it some thought. Regards Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That is an excellent point regarding potential saturation of some components. It is a certainty that there will be some specific conditions where the presence of a static magnetic field in the presence of some equipment and components will have negative consequences and many where it will not. It comes down to the circuit, the components used, intensity of the field and degree of shielding among other factors. Sounds like a great research project for one of our readers aspiring to get their PhD. Best regards, Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

BINGO!!!!! BINGO!!!!! BINGO!!!!! It is not the FCC GMRS specifications (at least as currently written) that explicitly limits the output power of a hand-held transceiver across the board. Max overall power for the handheld is ultimately limited by the ability of the transceiver-antenna system to achieve SAR compliance on the frequencies of operation. For those reading this post that do not already know this, amateur radio operators are required to know how to calculate or have the ability to measure this for equipment they own and operate. They are legally required to make sure that safe SAR levels are maintained, which applies to family and the public. Kudos WPXM352! Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I was kind of suppressed this website does not do that as well. Since a user is required to have a valid FCC GMRS call-sign to have full privileges to this site it would seem a FCC lookup could occur in the background to fill in the City and State of the user automatically. It would also seem that the callsign of the user should be readily available for members to see as well. For many amateur radio forums that is exactly what they do. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes, Log Books are used almost every day by amateur radio enthusiasts. Only nowadays there are software and online versions available. I do not know that anyone uses them for everyday communication, but certainly the amateurs that live in the DX world (long-distance and world-wide communication) use them, and many still send cards to confirm the contact. I personally keep a log of new contacts I make when communicating from within my home where I have access to my log and where it is convenient and safe to do. I do this for both GMRS and Amateur contacts. I log call sign, first name, and some notes about the person to help me start the conversation next time. The log book on QRZ.com website is nice. It does not work well for GMRS. If you are a ham, and you a contesting for distance, it is a great tool because when you record your contact, it also notifies your contact so they can confirm that contact was made. Confirmation can be required at times to receive full contest points. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

As I believe you are keenly aware, repeater channels of your radio use two different frequencies. In GMRS, the main receive frequencies for Repeater operation are exactly the same as the main receive frequencies used for Simplex operation. So when you listen on rp20, that is the same frequency as channel 20. That changes however when you press the PTT button. When using rp20, if the radio is configured correctly, it will output in the 467 MHz range. Since you have a SureCom 102 meter, I believe you should be able to see that higher frequency on the display. Perhaps you are not seeing that, and that is why you are indicating you have a problem. For what is is worth, my GMRS and Amateur repeater-capable radios always display the Rx frequency only when setting and switching channels (when radio is set for frequency display mode). The moment I press the PTT, the radio display switches to reflect that actual frequency being transmitted. Perhaps there is a setting in your midland that will allow the same thing. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The issue is with the importers and manufacturer’s taking liberties that are counter the FCC regulations either explicitly or implicitly. The FCC establishes technical criteria for devices that are intended to be used in only certain radio services, to maintain the integrity of the service and to serve the best interest of the people. Without this the service falls apart, quality/reliability degrades, and the service dies. Without it, the people are not happy. I will avoid all debate on how well they do it. Each service is established with frequencies, emission types, power level limits, and how they are to be used and by whom. The radios manufactured are intended to be used in and for that service only, and intended to be operated by persons or organizations licensed to use them. Depending on the service, the persons may or may not be required to have any technical knowledge. It used to be it take a certain physical hardware design to achieve this. Certain models for certain services. This is all with the intent of making the service most useful and effective for the parties for which the service is intended to serve. Technology has evolved. Current hardware design now makes it possible to design a radio that is technically capable of operating on wide range of frequencies, all types of emissions and wide range of power settings and of various qualities. That is great, as it makes it possible for a manufacturer to perhaps use the same radio innards to serve different purposes, a cost benefit to the manufacturer and consumer. The problem comes in when the radios are not locked down to and limited to the service for which they are intended and the radios are available to persons that have limited or zero knowledge of the various services. A person gets a radio learns how to operate it and suddenly they transmitting on frequencies that adversely affect public service. Suddenly a person changes a setting and now digital communications is happening on frequencies reserved for FM. Radio only works well for for the masses when standards, rules and guidelines are followed. Yeh, isn’t it cool that now any person can afford to buy a radio that costs only $25 and that can play havoc on the amateur frequencies, public service frequencies, GMRS and FRS frequencies, etc... all in one. As a responsible licensed GMRS and Amateur Radio operator I want order on and to the airwaves. I want standards and I want the rules followed. Why, because it is this order that makes the airwaves useful when lots of people are using them. So the issue ultimately is that some manufacturers are skirting the intent of the FCC regs and selling radios that can configured by the user to operate in services that they are not certified for and at a cost that makes proliferation of the products into the hands of the neophyte easy and for nearly nothing. I reiterate a comment I made earlier. I own a recently FCC certified part 95e radio using just product supplied by the manufacture for that radio I can cause it to be suddenly have the ability to transmit on Amateur, public services, and private land mobile frequencies and at higher power than is allowed on some. Will I do it, no. Would others do it? Without a doubt. The point being, that should not be possible for a current generations GMRS radio without internals modification. This is where the manufacturer’s should be held accountable. Sadly, the offending manufacturers are all seem to be Chinese based and we do not have the ability fine them or shut them down. Then you have importers like Rugged Radio that appear to be complicit and take advantage of and propagate the weakness. Sadly, it is cost prohibitive to enforce the rules at the end-user level. We, the tax payers cannot afford that. Instead you need to go to the source of the problem - Manufacturers and Importers. Hope this helps. Michael WHRS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Agreed. I put them in the same camp as the rest of the middle to upper tier bubble pack of FRS radios. The version I have are the the original 5 watt version. They have since been scaled back to 2.x something. Don’t want to drop them. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The difference between the KG-805G and KG-805G Basic can be found here: https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2019/12/introducing-the-wouxun-kg-805-professional-gmrs-and-murs-radios.html Not surprised it died an early death. Probably best suited for a family whereby the license holder preprograms all the radios and hands them out to family members so they can’t mess them up. Michael WHRS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

BuyTwoWayRadios, although discontinued, still shows the product data for the only ‘bubble pack’ repeater capable radios I ever new existed. That ship has sailed, which is good IMO. Here is the link for your reference: https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2015/12/repeater_capable_frs_gmrs_radios.html The Wouxun KG-805G listed in the link above is actually a newer radio and the only one in the list that is current. It is is an excellent step-up from the Midland GXT1000, it is repeater capable and includes absolutely everything you need to kick start yourself into GMRS. Buy a pair of them and build your own bubble pack. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don’t want to derail this thread, but at least it is related. G, perhaps if you have some test equipment around that you could mock up a couple of tests for us. If interested, perhaps we could start a new thread. One test could be the effect on transmitter output signal integrity and another on the receiver performance before and after placement of a large static magnet field (large rare earth) directly on the exterior of a UHF radio chassis. Similar tests could also be conducted covering the effect on transmission line performance in the presence of same. I don’t have ready access to the caliber of equipment needed for this so I cannot mock it up and measure it. Admitted that is probably a better topic for those in the amateur community rather than in GMRS. Just a thought. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I expect no affect. Why? Reason 1. It is act of a changing a magnetic field that induces currents to flow in another conductor. In the case of a speaker, the permanent magnet is on the outside. The speaker coil in which currents flow is substantially confined to the interior of this otherwise large constant-magnetic-field structure. Reason 2. The frequencies at which the speaker operates are audio frequencies. The only audio frequencies used in your radio are those used to supply audio to the radio to transmit, and from the radio to a speaker for listening. When you are listening you want the speaker to reproduce the receive audio. Good there. When transmitting, the speaker is not being used. Good there. And remember of course that almost every radio has a speaker in it right next to the electronics. Hope that helps. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

A gremlin indeed. While you will invariable receive loads of ideas, I will start by throwing out the first one that came to my mind. Do with it what you will. Confirm you have a set of conditions that are repeatable every single time. Turn off AC power circuits in your home, except the circuit needed to perform your tests. Confirm if the symptom persists. It it does not persist, something powered by one the circuits you turned off is contributing. Power up one circuit at time until you find a circuit that results in the symptom occurring again. Then troubleshoot further by removing power (unplugging/removing) items from that circuit. Once you find the culprit, then we talk solutions. If turning off circuits except the one needed for your tests does not yield results, then troubleshoot further by removing power (unplugging/removing) items from that circuit. Do this one at time until you find the culprit. Once you find the culprit, then we talk solutions. If removing items from test circuit does not yield results and the only thing left connected is the offending radio, then starting powering down all battery operated devices in your home, including any device powered by a UPS. This includes cell phones, iPads, laptops etc... Blasts of GSM noise from a phone has been a common source of interface in the past and can be suspect. You could have other items in your home that contribute interference in a similar way. I am one that most generally likes to remove all variables and build back up until the problem occurs. In this case I am taking a hybrid solution. Hope there is a nugget of help in there for you. Michael WHRS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No one arguing here. I will make one point that I think is worth noting. Rules written poorly will be twisted, turned and interpreted a million different ways. Well written ones are clear, concise and explicit. However when rules are written the latter way people will complain. They will say they are strict, to inflexible. <sigh> Perhaps the FCC rules should be reclassified as “Recommendations”. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So perhaps you are looking for a go box, a box that includes a mobile radio and built in battery and even an antenna connector on the top. One that you can take in and out of the car and even use it table-top outdoors. Search the net and you surely find variety of them. Even Midland had a link to one on their website for use with their micro mobile radios last time I visit it. Just a thought. You might also be able to tuck a battery like this under one of your seats. https://www.expertpower.us/products/ep1220-20ah?variant=29702738346082&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=CjwKCAiAn7L-BRBbEiwAl9UtkDd2peqzl2Q2EQVtA2mi_TsV-QIczb-YaabLriB8K46E_IpOdD0r6xoCd_UQAvD_BwE Seeing that it is a long life battery you could cycle it almost fully without worrying about damaging it as would be the case if you use traditional lead acid batteries. And if you are using Lithium based batteries, there is generally no need to keep the battery fully charged when not using to prevent premature aging and failure (which is the case with traditional lead acid batteries). Good Luck. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Good Day SuperGoo, Thanks for posting the paragraph number. I am familiar with it and have read it again multiple times. In fact that is highlighted in my reference copy. Now I need your help once again. There are two sub-paragraphs of 95.1767 in which the term “handheld” is used. In both cases it is used under headings of “462 MHz interstitial channels” and “467 MHz interstitial channels”. In these cases it is explicit that handhelds are limited to 5 watt on the 462 interstitials, and .5 watt on the 467 interstitials. No question there. Now, what I cannot seem to find is language that is similarly explicit that limits handhelds to 5 watt on the main GMRS frequencies. Regards, Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Where do you find that explicitly stated in the FCC regs? What specific paragraph? Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Certainly doable, but generally speaking, not very practical for everyday use for the average radio user. Consider the following. If I were going to do this, I would want a high-capacity battery, one that had to power to serve me a good amount of time between charges, perhaps something likely of good physical size. Since I would not want to have a big battery occupying the floor in front of (or on) a seat in the car, I would immediately look for a place to hide this monster. This would cause me to search for some place in the car to get the blasted thing out of my way. This may lead me to the trunk, engine compartment, perhaps some fender cavity or other suitable space. Once I settled on that space I would install it there. But then, I would soon get tired of the added hassle of charging the battery, which would likely mean running extension cable and charger periodically to the car to charge it. Getting tired of that hassle, I would certainly find myself looking for how I could connect the battery to my vehicle’s charging system; this way I could use it to keep my added battery at full capacity too. Then I would certainly want to make sure that this extra battery does not run down too if I leave the car lights on. So I would add circuitry that ensures the battery is only charged by the vehicle, but not drained by it. Once complete, I would be pleased that I had this extra battery in the car. Upon reflection I would recognize that I had invested way more time and money than simply running power cables to the original car battery. I would also conclude it a well worthwhile investment if I had the practical need for it. I hope this helps. Regards, Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I am agreeing with you 100%. At least the family definition is sufficiently broad that I can give just about any close blood relative one of my radios when camping or other event and we can remain legal. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Honestly I did not try a 1/4 on my car. The 5/8 wave was first GMRS antenna on the vehicle. I use a 5w HT in the car. When not in the car the HT has a 1/2 wave Nagoya 771G on it. I have now been in a number of places (including outside my Home) where the HT and 771G may or may not open certain repeaters but result in no usable audio. When I switch to the 5/8 wave on the car I can carry on a conversation. So at least from that perspective I know for certain the midland is working better. But since I have not compared field strengths I cannot say for certain exactly what the difference is. Also, in my case I am on the fringe of all repeaters within range at home, the area around me is mostly flat and my elevation is above average terrain so I have opted for more gain on my mobile and base antenna. That may not material to others. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Multiple antennas may be mounted to same mast, but things get more complicated quick. Take a look at almost any commercial antenna tower and you will notice lots of them. The prime spot is almost always at the top and is reserved for your most prized and important service antenna. All others are mounted below it. Others are mounted lower to avoid one antenna from negatively affecting the other without very, very expensive equipment. But when you mount them lower you now have additional considerations that result in the need to mount the antennas on stand-offs out to side of the tower and away from conductive surfaces (metal tower) and the feed lines serving antennas high up to the tower. When the lower antenna is too close to the tower or a feed-line, the antenna impedance and radiation pattern of the antenna will be materially impacted. I soon will be doing this myself. Currently I will be using a GMRS collinear antenna atop a 45’ HD fiberglass mast and will be mounting a similar design dual-band amateur antenna off the side part way up. While the fiberglass mast negates concerns of a conductive tower, I still need to add separation from the vertical feed-line serves the upper antenna. Antidotally speaking, I can tell you that I tried hanging two Ed-Fong antennas from a common hook at the same elevation at my home, one for GMRS, one for amateur. Both receive and transmit range was noticeably degraded. I would easily tell because I am on the fringe of multiple repeaters in both services and my transmit and receive performance was immediately decreased. Separated them horizontally by a wavelength and seemingly back to normal. If you will search the internet would will find a variety of calculators that will inform your vertical and horizontal placement decision. Good luck. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Verbatim from the FCC Rules “(2) Any individual who holds an individual license may allow his or her immediate family members to operate his or her GMRS station or stations. Immediate family members are the licensee's spouse, children, grandchildren, stepchildren, parents, grandparents, stepparents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, and in-laws. “ and “(3) Any individual who holds an individual license may allow anyone to operate his or her GMRS station if necessary to communicate an emergency message. “. When read in full context, it is clear the licenses are individual user licenses only, ones that may be extended to immediate family members but with licensee permission only. Just thought I would inject this because of the “I dunno about employees” statement. Regards Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk