mbrun

Would those of you that are moderators or admins of this site please private message me so I know who you are? When you message me, could you also please let me know your role, how long you have been doing it, and how much time you generally have to spend per week doing it? If I don’t hear directly from the forum administrator, and you moderators know who it is, could you please let me know who it is ask them to PM me as well? This request is made in connection with the thread concerning getting a master list of part 95 products documented on the site. Looking to start the discussion. Thanks in advance. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

IronArcher, Behind the scenes I imagine that the information would live in a spreadsheet or some form of database, but mainly as a means for the admin/moderator to keep all the information and facts organized. Part of me wants to keep the look and feel of the forum with users connected to, reading and interacting with the forum posts. I certainly would not rule out a hardcopy download at some time. Advanced formatting with the body of the message could be a nice touch so long as it carries through to all forum reader apps people use. I agree with your sentiment regarding wanting to flag items that aren’t to ‘spec’ so to speak. That type of designation would not likely be prudent from a risk-management perspective at the forum moderator/admin level, but would probably be better off left for members to assert. The main two levels (Items) of this information as I suggested in my previous post should be nothing more that facts that can be substantiated from first-part sources such as the FCC and the Manufacturer. No opinions there. Levels (Items) 3 and 4 in my suggestion are where the public gets to jump in and offer their opinions and independent findings. I am glad to hear you like the concept. Michael WHRS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Jerry, I too would like to see the FCC officially clarify explicitly that part 90 certified equipment is usable for GMRS. At a minimum, it needs to be done to allow commercial grade repeaters to be used, provided of course they are configure per the GMRS rules. The market is not likely enough to justify the overhead for a manufacture to obtain a less stringent technical certification. That repeater is not going to passed around daily to family members that are going to play with front panel controls and screw it up like a BF UV5R. I am conformable they can easily amend part 95 with appropriate language to make it legal without adding loads of bureaucracy. I do not currently see myself ever purchasing and installing one, but I would like to see this legal clarification for all those with the will and means to do so. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You’re a good man G. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Here are some of my thoughts regarding what I believe would be useful to forum members. It is not perfect, but it is a positive start. Item 1: Master List of Approved Radios A single master, living, breathing post (not open to discussion) that contains a list of all radios that are FCC approved for use on the GMRS radio service. Only moderators/administrators would be permitted to add/edit this post. The contents of the post would be organized by station type (Mobile, Base, Handheld, Repeater etc...) The post would include the following simple information. Manufacturer, Model, Validated FCC ID. When a radio goes out of production, the radio gets designated EoL (End of Life) A single link for each model to another master post on this forum containing moderator-managed information for that model. See Item 2 below. A single link to each model’s official Pros/Cons thread. See Item 3 below. Item 2: Master Model Thread, One Thread per Model Post created by and edited only by moderator(s). Containing only information pertaining to one model. An attachment containing the official manufacturer’s data sheet (not a link, the file needs to live with the post). A link to the manufacturer’s website where users can obtain updated information. Redirected by moderator if manufacture changes it. A convenience link to the FCC certification information for the model. An embedded image of the Radio, no links to be broken. An abbreviated list of the most common and important set of radio specifications. Convenience Link to the Official Pros/Cons thread for the model (see Item 3 below). Optional Convenience Link(s) to various technical validations or comparison posts (Item 4 below). Item 3: Pros/Cons thread, One Official Thread per Model. First post in the thread containing a consistent message as every other official Pros/Cons thread. Message should describe the purpose of and expectations of posts in that thread. First post containing a link back to the master list of approved radios (Item 1 above). First post containing a link back to the Master Thread for that model (Item 2 above). First post created by moderator/administrator. All subsequent posts provided by the MyGRMS membership. Moderators intervene, redirect or delete messages when they run off topic and dilute the purpose and usefulness of the thread. Item 4: Technical Validations or Comparisons Threads (optional) Created by the membership. As time goes on and we have members willing and capable of conducting actual measurements and/or side-by-side field comparisons between two or more radios, that information would live here. When it appears high quality work has been submitted, the moderator would edit the master thread for the models compared to this comparison information. Summary All in all I believe this methodology would be useful to new and existing members. I think this effort is doable and manageable, but it does require a commitment. The hardest part I believe is reaching agreement on the structure (organization) and contents of the moderator managed portions of the information. Then we need to agree on how the moderators receive new information to include on the posts they would be responsible for managing. Then we need to find a way to make sure the the Master list of Approved radios is always one of the first things a new member sees when joining. Some modification to the naming and organization of the equipment discussion area may be needed. I also accept that this may not be doable because of forum software limitations. That I cannot speak to. I hope this input is useful in furthering this discussion. Perhaps we can get this done. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

And that is the reason that I started the other thread, to get that discussion going. This forum could provide a great service to current and future members if it could curate facts about radios presently authorized by FCC for on use on GMRS in one place. I love reading all the posts, contributing my own and helping folks out. But too easily good factual information gets buried in a mound of forum BS to be lost to all but the best forensic forum scientist to uncover. Because it takes months for some to find the information they really needed, out of now where it is suddenly to late for them. I am currently of the opinion that it will take a moderator/administrator to set up the framework. I am also of the opinion that certain rules would need to be followed/enforced by said moderators. Perhaps its doable, perhaps not. I know not who the moderators are, nor what their capabilities are. I will jump over to the thread I started and offer more opinion there. Regards Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I do not know for 100% certain how to determine the firmware version of the radio. The firmware version does not display in the manufacturer’s software that I have found yet. However, it may be one of the values that can be displayed on the radio if you do the following: Power down the radio. Press and hold the ‘Up’ button on the front of the radio. Turn the power back on. Release the ‘Up’ button. Press the ‘Up’ button multiple times to step through a series of values. One of those may be firmware version. Honestly, if I were the FCC, I would not allow field upgradeable firmware in a Personal Radio Service Radio. Doing so would open the door to greater misuse and conversion of a radio authorized for one specific service into a radio that operates on another given current hardware designs. It is mostly, if not only, the firmware today that determines whether some radios performs as one model vs another. Honestly, I would expect the FCC to mandate firmware updates be done by the Importer/manufacturer in much the same way that product recalls are handled. Updates that fix FCC compliance issues free. Feature updates perhaps at a nominal cost. Don’t get me wrong, I am a technical person and like to do things myself. I also recognize however that there are way to many out there that would do this for nefarious reasons. The easier it is to do, the more rampant it would become. Just like folks buying certain BaoFeng radios for $29 intended for licensed amateur use only and then using them on GMRS for which they are not authorized. They are so cheap, the issue appears widespread. Regards, Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

There was no intent whatsoever to assert the radio better or worse than another. It was a “Pros/Cons” opinion of one author according to the current title of the thread. The post was made in an attempt to leverage the “existing” pros/cons thread referenced elsewhere on this forum in recent days/weeks in-order to spur others to do the same. Perhaps the title of the thread should be changed to clarify which brands are permitted to be commented on this thread. I deleted my post so no one else will get the wrong idea. Respectfully, Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Wouxon KG-805G Handheld Portable Pros: FCC Part 95e Certified FCC ID: WTWWOUXUN16 5w and .5w power settings. Wideband and Narrowband capable. Pre-programmed for 22 simplex channels and 8 repeater pairs. 128 Software programmable programmable memories. Interoperable with FRS on all channels, Rx and Tx. CTCSS and DCS squelch code support, usable in any Rx/Tx combination. Replaceable/upgradable antenna. Usable in vehicle with mobile antenna. Ability to customize channel names (6 alpha-numeric characters). Display channel info by Name, Frequency or Memory (channel) number. Scan all memories. Software programmable scan channel skip. Backlit LCD display, usable outdoors in bright sun or a night. High and low capacity batteries. Subjectively high-quality receive and transmit audio quality. Bright indicator to visually identify if a channel is in use (even when current squelch code does not match radio squelch code). Software programmable Busy Channel Lockout. Front panel lockout capability, including auto-lock feature. Time out Timer to limit transmit duration. FM radio for those that find this beneficial. 3-Channel Scan Modes. Sufficient audio level, even when operating in closed vehicle. Multiple battery capacity sizes available. Cons: Flawed Firmware. Radio not properly locked down to prevent unauthorized Tx on other services. Rotating channel knob does not increment one channel per click unless rotated slowly. A real problem when high-memory count is used. Signal level meter inaccurate. No built-in repeater talk-around feature; must be user programmed as a channel instead. No ability to switch from high and low power in the field to reduce power consumption when high power is not needed. No NOAA support for those that truly desire that in an HT. Scan stops and holds on channels even when receive signal does not contain the squelch code set in that channel. Would not likely survive a drop on solid ground from 6’. Not going to test. Range could be improved with better receiver. No ability to scan for squelch codes. Overall Impression. I find this be a good entry level HT in the world of GMRS repeater-capable radios, and am glad I purchased it. Subjectively I find the simplex performance (with stock antenna) only marginally better than the 5-watt early generation Midland GXT1000 radios I have, which suggests similar real-world sensitivity and selectivity. However the audio quality is noticeably better and range is improved to some degree with a premium aftermarket antenna so the ability to upgrade antenna, as well use external antennas is a real plus. It was worth its purchase price when compared to the GXT1000 simplex-only radios. The power output measured was on par with manufacturer published values. Would I buy it again if I needed more radios? Yes. All else being equal but bugs were fixed, I may spend twice for this exact same radio if it featured substantially improved sensitivity and selectivity performance that translated into 2x or more real-world simplex distance when compared to the current generation KG-805G. I would expect some additional features would be necessary to sway others. Just one man’s opinion. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Content Deleted. Moved to another thread.

You’re welcome. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes. The language can be found in 95.1751. The language for Id’ing uses the word ‘station’. You’re HT, Mobile, and base and repeater are all separate stations. The only exception in the code is for a repeater station (see 95.1751.c) where it describes that repeater does not need to identify if it is only used by persons operating under the authority of the “individual license” under which it operates. This means you and your family members. The moment anyone other than you or your immediate family keys up the repeater, now the repeater is required to ID. One of the reasons I conclude it is set up this way is that to ensure that an ID (English or Morse Code) is associated with all transmissions, on all frequencies. When using a repeater, two frequencies are in use. One is the frequency your radio uses to transmit to the repeater, the other is the frequency that the repeater transmits on. Your HT is transmitting on one frequency, so that station must ID on the frequency in use. When your repeater is re-transmitting your signal, it retransmits your ID because you gave it during your transmission, so now both stations have ID’d. Everyone listening (regardless of frequency) then knows who is responsible for the transmissions. Now, when you let non family members use your repeater, the repeater now MUST id separately. Now the world will here two IDs. First the ID of the party using your repeater, then your repeater. Why, because each station must identify, and there are two separate license involved. Hope this clarify’s it for you. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It is possible it would work but it is not tuned for GMRS. Antennas that are not tuned for the frequencies you transmit on present a higher SWR to the radio. The higher the SWR, the stronger the signal reflected back from the antenna to the radio. Some folks have reported for example that Midland GMRS radios can only handle a max SWR of 1.5:1 and anything more than that warranty is void. If that is true and you put an antenna on that exceeds that value you are living on borrowed time. Some radios can handle SWR upwards of 3:1. (Some high power expensive amateur rigs have built in automatic antenna tuners). High SWR support is great on one hand as it means the radio will survive and your investment is reasonably protected from a poorly tuned antenna. On the other hand, an unnecessarily high SWR number means you are wasting extra power in your cable, thus reducing your range. If you had a quality SWR meter and you have confirmed it was within a safe range for your radio, buy all means use it. If you do so without verifying, by all means put your radio in lowest power mode to prevent letting the magic smoke out. BTW, about a month ago I checked my personal Comet Dual Band Amateur antenna with an antenna analyzer for the exact same reason as you. While I do not recall the exact number, I concluded it was too high risk for my radio. So I carry two antenna in my car. I swap them as needed to suit the service I want to use. Regarding antenna recommendation. I shared that I personaly use the Midland MXTA-26A. I have no complaints with it. I would buy it again. Welcome to the world of radio. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That antenna is a dual band amateur radio antenna. While it may work, it is not designed/optimized for GMRS frequencies. I would expect the SWR to be high, perhaps higher than your radio will safely tolerate. I personally would not use it without first verifying SWR is appropriate and modifying it to suite for GMRS. Modifying a dual band antenna is not for the faint of heart. Purchasing one designed for GMRS frequencies is what I recommend. I personally use the Midland MXTA-26A GMRS antenna and have zero complaints. Michael WHRS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think your application is an appropriate use for a low power portable repeater. Yes you could use a standard mobile antenna on top of camper as that would definitely make it higher than your HT antenna so that would have a positive effect on your effective range. You might also give consideration to getting your antenna up higher, perhaps an additional 10-15-20 feet. You could do that by using one of the readily accessible push-up fiber glass antenna masts available from various amateur radio supply shops. They collapse and store easily. You could set this on the ground next to camper, raise it up and secure to side of your camper. There are tripods available for some also. For those new to GMRS and reading this message, antenna height is more way more important than power when it comes to range. Your investment in height will pay more in dividends than any high-powered expensive radio. One special reason for height in a tightly packed KOA campground is all the metal sided campers. The more of those campers in the path of your signal, the greater your signal loss and reduction in effective range. I would start with your initial idea. See if it works to your satisfaction. If range is acceptable, let it fly. If you need more range, raise the antenna. Regards, Michael WHRS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

There is no consequential prohibition on which frequencies the radio can receive on, there are restrictions on which frequencies the radio can transmit on. NOAA frequencies live in the VHF Spectrum. GMRS is the UHF spectrum. The radio that the 805G is based on is a UHF only radio so it does not have NOAA capability. There are many GMRS radios with NOAA capability, the 805G is just not one of them. Wouxun does have a model pending FCC approval that will have NOAA plus a basic 7-band analog scanner. The radio is already advertised and will cost twice as much (KG-UV9G). Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

A GMRS Part 95e radio is not legally permitted to also be an ‘Amateur’ radio according to FCC regs, it is expressly disallowed (95.1761.c). I find it interesting how the vendor on amazon refers to the radio as ‘Amateur Mobile Transceiver’. Almost a dead give away that it is (Wink Wink). I bet we are dealing with yet another radio where the manufacturer has pulled the wool over the FCC’s eyes, yet behind the scenes the user can program this radio to operate unrestricted on multiple bands, multiple services using disallowed emissions and power levels. Yes, I read the specs, and on the surface it seems to comply. The only way this radio can comply is if the radio is locked down at the firmware level. Call me highly skeptical. C’mon FCC, I hope you are doing your job. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

In Cincinnati GMRS is tool too. It is most active during drive times, around local Net time, and in the evenings. There are some locals that are always scanning, and some that rag-chew late at night. Seldom is the case when I cannot get a response from someone out there listening to at least one of the local repeaters. Yes, some amateur repeaters are far more active than GMRS, but there also some amateur repeaters that see only a fraction of use compared to GMRS. All-in-all amateur wins as far as traffic. What I have noticed is that activity breeds activity. When folks hear activity they are motivated to become radio active themselves. If my radio is on and I can get into the repeater myself, when I hear someone looking for a radio check, I will most certainly respond. Welcome to GMRS. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

In 95.345, .347 and .349 of part 95 rules disallow remote control, automatic control and network connection for all services, unless expressly allowed for it within the sub-part text for that service. The following is extracted directly from the sub part 95E text for GMRS. § 95.1745 GMRS remote control. Notwithstanding the prohibition in § 95.345, GMRS repeater, base and fixed stations may be operated by remote control. § 95.1747 GMRS automatic control. Notwithstanding the prohibition in § 95.347, GMRS repeater stations may be operated by automatic control. § 95.1749 GMRS network connection. Operation of a GMRS station with a telephone connection is prohibited, as in § 95.349. GMRS repeater, base and fixed stations, however, may be connected to the public switched network or other networks for the sole purpose of operation by remote control pursuant to § 95.1745 Hope this helps. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

For clarity. Morse code is permitted for station identification on GMRS. The below text is copied verbatim from 2017 (current) version of the rules. 95.1751 paragraph ‘b’ “The call sign must be transmitted using voice in the English language or international Morse code telegraphy using an audible tone.” Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Makes no difference. The earth is a big ball and makes an excellent ground plane for many antenna. . If you were using rods for the radials you would need at least three, but more would work even better. I once used a metal trash can lid. It worked just fine. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Good morning IronArcher. When you have a poor SWR, the power readings on the SWR meter become exaggerated; read, inaccurate. The meter is merely incapable of accurately determining the radio’s real output power any longer due to timing of the various reflections in the cable. The radio is not actually outputting more. It is in-fact this reflected power that, if too high, can lead to the failure of the output stage of your radio, which in-turn is one reason why we try to keep the SWR low. One must use a non-reactive dummy load on the output end of SWR/Power meter to obtain your most accurate power reading. Thought you might appreciate knowing this. Regards Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Good Morning IronArcher. Yes, ground plane radials for a 1/4 wave GRMS antenna need to be around 7”. Larger radials are perfectly acceptable. When using the simple 1/4 GP design, bending the radials downward will improve SWR too as it helps to raise the impedance of the antenna closer to the desired 50 ohms and has the positive effect also of lowering the peak radiation angle of the antenna down closer to the horizon instead of upward angle towards the sky. Here is a link you can refer to: https://m0ukd.com/calculators/quarter-wave-ground-plane-antenna-calculator/ Good luck on your project. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hello Andy. Welcome to GMRS. Per the letter of the law, amateur radios are not legal for use on GMRS frequencies (except in life & death scenario). FCC regulations require that the radios used on GMRS (and FRS) to be part 95 certified for the service on which they operate. If you read the current regulations I believe you will conclude that is abundantly clear. Yes, there are many that operate illegally. No further discussion on that point needed. In my opinion, FRS and GMRS are very appropriate for camping activities. Camping is predominately a family and friends activity. FRS has zero barrier to entry and is perfect for close-in comms and provides the ability to intercommunicate with family and others you camp with easily. GMRS and FRS share many for the same frequencies, but obtaining a GMRS license opens you and your family up to the all the potential performance benefits you would otherwise get from operating on the 70cm UHF amateur radio service, while maintaining your ability to intercommunicate with license-fee-free FRS folks as you need. GMRS opens the door for you also to use equipment at 25 times the power of FRS (50w vs. 2w), it allows you to use better antennas, external and higher placed antennas, to use and even deploy your own repeaters. All of these lead you down the path to the potential of much greater usable range. So the end, the license gives you the ability to operate equipment that can extend your range from perhaps a mile to two to perhaps upwards of 25-50-100 miles under many, many practical everyday scenarios. In my opinion, $70 is an insignificant barrier to entry for a 10-year license that covers you and your family. In my view, it is not even worth discussion considering the benefits and scope of use that comes with your license. Your amateur license will give you the ability to talk with license amateurs only. The number of folks licensed is a small fraction of those that have FRS radios, so your pool of interoperability is limited there when it comes to camping. Add FRS to the GMRS users and the pool grows more. The effective usable range of GMRS is exactly the same as the Amateur 70cm (UHF) band when using the same caliber of equipment, antennas and power settings under the exact same set of environmental conditions. So getting an amateur license and operating on UHF is not going to be a benefit there. On thing you will get with an amateur license is access to a much larger pool of repeaters than you will find on GMRS. But this GMRS community is working to expand that. Even so, you may not find repeaters in the vicinity of where you camp (for either service) so that may not be of any material benefit to you under camping conditions. There are some portable low-power repeaters you can purchase (even here on MyGMRS) that can be excellent addition to your camping gear. Put that in your camper and travel with an antenna you can raise to 20-30 feet in the air at your sight and you will be the envy of the campground given the additional range you could potentially have. No, it is not a commercial piece of equipment, but would likely serve you well for those periodic outings. Put a mobile radio in your camper connected to an antenna you raise at your site and you will experience beneficial range increase there too when talking from your base to FRS/GMRS handhelds. BTW, I own also the GXT1000 and KG805G. Both serve a purpose for me. The 805 is now my everyday radio because I it provides repeater access for me. I carry it as well as use it in my car with a mobile antenna. Well, I hope my comments are helpful. Again, welcome. Best of luck. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Just want to be clear here. This person is not complaining just offering suggestions for the sake of convenience that potentially benefits everyone. I have already submitted a feature request to the authors of TapaTalk (the forum app I pay to use) requesting that they consider supporting display of location information (currently visible on website) plus the users GMRS and Amateur call signs. We will see what happens. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk