mbrun

I thought I would inject something about meters. While a true IARU S-meter will exhibit the behavior described, none of my radios do, and most notably the Wouxun radios. The meter on every radio I own with a meter has been measured in the past. Although varying slightly by model, the meter on every Wouxun radio I have tested will swing from zero to a full 9 bars with an input signal change of less than 14dBm when hooked directly to an FM signal generator. One unit will do so in as little as 6dBm, the rest are typically around 12dBm. So whereas the meter on my ham FT-991A require a bigger change to move (1) S-Unit (at times close to 6dBm), the Chinese GMRS radios go from zero to full bars with very little signal change. I bring this up because some folks using the cheap radios might think that when the meter on their radio changes by 1 bar they are indeed experiencing a 6dBm signal level change when in reality they may be experiencing less than 1dBm. Regards, Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I agree with those sentiments. Truly seems odd however in light of the fact that the ability to use repeaters is what truly makes GMRS special. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

The transmission path through the meter is passive, meaning the meter does not need to be powered on to pass signal. I keep mine inline with my GMRS base radio full-time and power it up periodically to confirm as appears well. The insertion loss is inconsequential at the present time. My amateur radio has one built-in, all I have to do is activate a menu item to show it. It is ultimately your preference. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Yes, the KG1000 comes factory configured with 30 standard channels. The difference lies in its ability to add and remove as needed. In my radio I have all the standard channel configurations for consistency, simplicity and compatibility, but I also have 30-40 channels with specific named local and regional repeaters in it, as well as additional slots already pre-configured to receive tones for any repeaters I may encounter in other cities that I wish to enter, name and keep from my travels. The 1000 also receives NOAA BTW, but has no weather alert capability like some other midlands do. The 1000 also offers the ability the receive two channels full-time, and/or scan two sets of channels which I use regularly, custom tone support as well as tone scan. It supports the ability to view channels by channel number, as well as channel number and name, channel number and frequency, which I use regularly. This is superior the scan and dual watch capability of other midlands (IMO). Know frequency is important in some/many GMRS circles. Yes, it does have the bonus capability of listening to over frequencies, which I admit has come in useful at times, but is not a deal breaker. But in fact I have my GMRS radios also configured to listen to certain amateur frequencies of concern to me as well as MURS and a few others, in much the same way I have my amateur radios set to listen to GMRS too. This is all unnecessary of course in a GMRS radio, but a bonus none-the-less. No, A GMRS radio does not need 999 memories like the 1000 has, but I have found for my purposes, given other radio constraints, about 128 is good number to have available in an advanced GMRS radio, of course this is my opinion. I concur that most folks needs will be met with a basic 30 channel unit. But there are those that really want more. I really thought Midland released the radio it would have had more to offer than it does. So I admit I am disappointed in their decision. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I am with others in that I believe the MXT500 will sell quite well given it is 50 watts of simple radio operation. If you can use an FRS radio, you can use the MXT500. I do think that Midland missed a great opportunity to capture the hearts of the GMRS power user community which it could have done by providing advanced programming and display modes. One that would support more than 30 memory channels, custom naming of channels, use/entry of non-standard squelch codes, ability to show actual frequency in use, and perhaps a few other features. These are features I feel certain already existed on the base radio they used as a starter. Its simplicity and brand recognition is what will cause it to sell and appeal to the masses. The absence of advanced features means others will take a pass on it in favor of less expensive but more feature rich, less refined, and lesser supported radios. With just a little work, the Chinese brands could easily upgrade their radios to achieve this same level of simplicity, while also providing the extras that are appealing to the serious radio enthusiast. As always, just one man’s opinion. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

OK, you did it again. LMAO. It is a shame Johnny Carson is not still with us. I would love you see the two of you together. 73 Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

My shack radios are connected full-time to a 100AH deep cycle AGM battery. Battery is on continuous float supplied by a 30A capacity power supply. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

The ideal situation has the arrestor located at ground level (or nearly so) and either mounted directly to the ground rod, or mounted securely nearby (within a couple of feet) and then interconnected to the ground rod with heavy copper wire. One segment of coax then runs from the antenna to the arrestor and another from the arrestor to your radio in the house. Ideally too, only a small length of coax should exist outdoors between the arrestor and where the cable enters the home. If there is something that makes that arrangement technically infeasible (like living on the top floor of a 10 story apartment building as well as other situations), then compromises are often necessitated. If you are using a metal mast, you are encouraged to connect that mast to the ground rod as well, doing so at the base of the mast. What has you thinking that the arrestor mounts up at the antenna? Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Here are the sweeps of my GP6 off a freshly calibrated VNA. GMRS band is tolerable. Not as bad as I recalling. Good luck. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I have the GP6 for my amateur rig. If performs much better on VHF than UHF. Works well for Amateur stuff, but not well for GMRS. I use use the GMRS version of the Comet 712 for use that. I can perhaps take some screen hots of the VNA this evening and post them if someone does not get them for you before then. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Glad it is working for you. A few questions. What kind of interference where you experiencing? What cables were you using when you received interference and what kind of cables are you using now? And where in the signal path did you have them? How high above ground is your antenna, and what kind of range have been able to achieve, and with what type of radio? Regards, Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

A ground rod for installation in ground just before cable enters the house. Your suppressor will connect to this. A 6AWG bonding conductor for interconnection between your new ground rod and your existing main electrical ground rod. Ground clamps for connecting the bonding conductor to both ground rods. Waterproof rubber tape to use for sealing all coaxial connectors outdoors. Coax in two lengths, one to go between ground-plane kit and the suppressor, the other to go between suppressor and radio. So make sure you either buy pre-made cables of the correct length, or purchase connectors and tools for terminating the cable yourself. A bracket or other means of attaching the suppressor directly too the ground bar. DX Engineering has these. An antenna analyzer or SWR meter so you confirm all performs well before, during and after the installation. Don’t wait to check SWR until after installation. Check things in steps. Antenna on ground plane mount, antenna on ground plane with first coax, antenna on ground plane with first coax and suppressor, then complete system. Do it in stages, before, during and after installation to catch issues early to avoid having to take it down just to troubleshoot your issues. Get your antenna as high as you can practically get it. The greater its height, the deeper into the woods it will reach, but expect the trees to retard your signal. Test your range HT to HT early by getting up on the roof and conducting tests with your wife in the woods now so you can get a sense of what to expect later. The point at which the two of you can just barely hear one another should become clear with a good base antenna installation. Good luck. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Hook the antenna up to an UHF antenna analyzer or to a VNA and run the correct tests and you should be able to find your answer. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Welcome to myGRMS. From a portability standpoint, the FRS & GMRS radios are smaller than the CD handhelds have historically been. And because they operate in the UHF band their antennas are naturally much smaller. FRS and GMRS both use FM modulation which means that atmospheric static is not introduced into the audio. CB(CBRS) using AM, USB, LSB. FM has recently been approved by the FCC for use in the CBRS, so in time that difference will become moot. FRS and GMRS hardware supports squelch codes (CTCSS & DCS) that give you and your group the ability to prevent the squelch on your radios from opening except when a transmitter using that code transmits. So if you are on a camping trip and your family all uses CTCSS 67.0, you will only hear radios that use that code. FRS and GMRS are not subjected to the gross degree of daily signal propagation changes that affect your range and the ability to communicate locally as CB is. Don’t expect skip to suddenly permit you to talk to Texas from New York because of temporarily atmospheric condition change. But you may experience conditions were perhaps you can talk another town or two away. FRS and GMRS radios can mostly interoperate because they share 22 or 30 frequencies in common. GMRS radios are permitted to use wide-band modulation, which can give some GMRS radios an audio quality advantage over FRS. FRS is limited to narrow-band modulation. GMRS requires a FCC license whereas CBRS and FRS do not. The GMRS service permits use of radios up to 50 watts. FRS maxes out at 2 and CBRS maxes out at 4. The GMRS allows for the use of repeaters. Repeaters make it to possible to increase the usable coverage range, most notably when the repeater is installed in a prime high location. It is not uncommon to have repeaters that cover an entire City, even some that will make it possible for two handhelds 40 miles and more apart to communicate. A GMRS license gives you the permission you need to put up and operate your own repeater. Antennas for GMRS do not have the 20’ above building or tree rule that the CBRS is subjected to. Instead, height limit rules are the same as for Cell Towers, TV Towers and other tall structures where the FAA rules dominate. If you can afford to put up a 200’ tower and get approved to do so from your local AHJ you can put it up. Regarding hardware. FCC rules require the use of part 95 certified hardware for CBRS, FRS and GMRS. Each service has its own set of technical certification criteria. I know of no equipment that is dual-service certified. This does not mean there is not hardware that can be modified to operate on two or more services, just that doing so violates your authority to use it. Many, including some members of this forum, choose to operate outside the rules. Hopefully this information is useful. Regards, and again, welcome to myGMRS. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

WyoJoe, the images posted appear to be from RT Systems software. If you are not using that software that would explain the differences you see. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

It is worth the call to see what they have to say, particularly if radio is new. I have done some experiments on my end and currently learning towards an internally maladjusted AGC circuit in the outbound audio path. Initial audio levels seems good when first transmitting but it includes gross audio clipping (distortion), then the audio drops down to almost nothing and then ramps back up to ‘normal’, but includes some degree of clipping. In my over-the-air experiments with some seasoned operators it has been reported that the problem seems to mostly go away when the mic is held 6-10 inches away from the mouth. This is not generally good in a mobile situation. However, if get acceptable results at this distance, I may modify the mic my mic to pad its audio down so that I can use the mic closer to the mouth to cut down on the background noise. One local swears he has read some posts overseas about folks reporting this same problem, but while using the KG-UV980 (same electronics as the KG-1000G). Reportedly at least one of them managed to get their hands on some kind of service software package which had allowed them to disable that circuit and that it solved their problem. I have looked far and wide with no luck, so I suspect he may be thinking of a different radio model. In any regards, he promised to try and find the original thread and send me a link. We will see. I will keep you in mind if such software is actually found. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

That is true of the midland accessories as well. The pin spacing of midlands is different from the Kenwood. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Good Day PartsMan. Welcome to myGMRS. By GXT1000G I assume you are referring to Midlands GXT1000 handheld radios. Is that correct? Different feature sets and uses of your radios will ultimately influence whether a keypad is beneficial to you or not. The simplicity of a radio without keyboard is nice. My EDC GMRS radio does not have a keypad. Of the radios I do own with keypads, they are all field programmable. This is a nice feature if your use of radios necessitates frequent channel additions in the field, on the fly. However programming with a keypad is very laborious (IMO) and it is not something I cherish doing. I consider it nice to have in an emergency, but not something I want to do except in an emergency. Programming with software is much more friendly and flexible. I personally have worked out a system that I use now, in all my GMRS radios, keyboard or not, that has completely eliminated the need for field programming any new GMRS repeater channel. So I have removed that obstacle for myself. A keypad is nice if you have a radio with perhaps 100s of channels programmed into it (like I do in my amateur radios). The keypad will usually allow you to directly enter the channel number you want. Of course this is an asset only if you can remember what you frequency(s) you assigned to what channel number. A keyboard can be an asset for direct entry of CTSSC or DCS codes if you change them frequently or need to enter a custom one in the field. This is so rare and such an edge case situation as to be insignificant. Every radio I own has all the standard codes available and they selected at will and saved on the fly. No keypad needed. Now, on my mobile radio, it does have a keypad. In my case I want and need the keypad because it provides access to features and settings I want direct access to that are not directly available on the radio. For example, power, squelch and some other settings are only available via the keypad in my configuration. Of course if the radio were bigger and had more buttons on its control panel then perhaps the keypad on the mic would become less of a need. Food for thought. Hope this helps. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Good evening Blaise. The actual amount of output power from a radio does not play into SWR calculations. Yes, the ratio of forward to reflected power does play into them, but not the actual power. What is mean by this is that all else being equal, tests conducted with 1 milliwatt of power and with 50 watts of power should yield the exact same SWR results, assuming of course that the measurement instruments are designed for the levels used. If you are seeing differences between readings on the same frequency, but at different power levels, I am inclined to attribute them to the instrumentation being used. For example, some SWR meters will clearly indicate in their documentation that measurement uncertainties exist below certain level(s). Additionally, the accuracy of an instrument can vary based on the levels being measured. From the numbers shared so far, I cannot conclude whether the antenna is too long or too short. To determine that one needs more data points. Personally, I would what to see a plot/chart of the antenna’s performance for a frequency window of perhaps 450-500MHz, perhaps even 400-550MHz. A VNA can do this. Given that you have indicated that your radio cannot transmit outside the GMRS frequencies it then becomes impossible to plot the SWR performance over a larger frequency range which is what we really need to learn where the real dip in SWR resides. I would encourage you to reach out to a local amateur radio club for assistance. I would expect a good percentage of their members have some form of standalone antenna analyzer, perhaps even a VNA, that reaches into the UHF spectrum. If you lived nearby I would say bring you antenna over. In minutes we would have your answer. I wish I could be of more assistance. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Contacting Midland Service/Tech Support is how some folks on this site have gotten their hands on software. I think you may need to purchase a special cable as well. If you search this site well you may find a link to the software that one of these folks may have shared. The programming flexibility of Midland radios I believe you will find to be very limited compared to the competition. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

When you are operating in the fringe area of a repeater your HT will almost always hear the repeater much better than the repeater is going to hear your HT. Why? The repeater likely has upwards of 10x +/- more power than your HT. Now, assuming a top performing repeater operating at 50 watts, and a top performing mobile or base radio operating at the same power, and assuming both have the equivalent receive sensitivity ratings, both radios should hear one another nearly equally at all distances. Given that a GMRS HT is going to be at most 5 watt, your HT has a 10dB disadvantage in transmission power over the repeater. This translates to less usable transmission range for your HT. GMRS operators that live in the fringe area of repeaters are the ones that really need to step up there game whilst those that live closer have greater flexibility. I live in the fringe area of several repeaters. While I can open certain ones with my HT and rubber duck, I cannot achieve reliable communications thru them. Things change when I use that same HT connected to my base antenna located 56’ AGL, but the signal into the repeater is still on the noisy side. However, when I switch over to the 50-watt base rig and the base antenna I can get in at or near full-quieting because now I am on more-equal footing. The later is equivalent to how my base hears the repeater, at or near full-quieting. Antenna height makes a difference; power makes a difference. As far as priority is concerned, antenna height is more important and has higher priority than raw power. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

No need to remove the boot if the SWR is within acceptable range. Feel free to remove it and compare the difference. It is your choice which to use if both yield acceptable values. My everyday mobile antenna uses a mag-mount base. SWR is exceptional whether it is mounted top-dead-center of my SUV or on a metal trash-can lid or base. The later was when I was doing some experiments. The antenna being used was the Midland 6dBi whip. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I am unaware of any repeaters except perhaps the Retevis RT97 that is part 95e certified. I don’t believe the market is viewed to be large enough by the manufacturer’s to justify the extra certification expense. It seems that most repeater owners choose to use higher quality and more prolific commercial-grade Part 90 equipment, whether it be purchased new or used. This equipment generally is considered to meet and exceed all relevant technical performance requirements of GMRS. After all, GMRS frequencies live right within the LMR spectrum where part 90 equipment is mandated. I have no first hand experience with Bridgecom, but I admit I have have considered it myself. In light of stories of poor service and customer support after the sale from a couple of owners as well as strong negative positions voiced by others that operate other commercial brands, I have closed the door on them as a future candidate. As of a few weeks ago, there where two used Motorola commercial repeaters offered by a commercial radio operator that is also a member of this forum. Price was less than $1000, complete with good faith 30 or 90 day warranty. As a ‘guest’, sadly you do not have access to that post. Perhaps when you become a member you can check them out if they are still available. Good luck on your GMRS journey. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Good day. I do not see anything strange about them. I see one repeater (the red one) that appears to be using split-tones, and two that are using DCS. Is the use of DCS what is throwing you? Is it the use of one CTCSS and one DCS that is throwing you? While most repeater owners may choose to use CTCSS Tone In and Tone Out, DCS is the equally viable digital alternative to CTCSS, so it is equally viable. Also, some repeater owners do use split tones as it takes more effort to hack into the repeater by those without permission. I cannot say whether the information is valid, only that it does not look strange. Let us know your thoughts. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

N4GIX is correct. Rule changes! The FCC screwed up when they allowed radios to support multiple services. The 2017 rule changes were part of their attempt to clean things up. But the cat was let out of the bag and there was too much product out in the market. Most of the hybrid FRS-GMRS radios got reclassified as FRS radios in 2017 when the rules changed, but this occurred only if the radio’s specs met the new FRS rules. While most did, one popular hybrid FRS-GMRS radio, the Midland GXT1000, put out too much power on some of its channels (over 2 watts). Although identical in every other technical aspect to many other midland radios, the GTX1000 requires a GMRS license where as its siblings that output less than 2 watts do not require one. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM