mbrun

For about nine months I used two different Ed-Fong roll-up J-Pole antennas for GMRS and amateur radio services in my home. I operated them at 5W using an HT. They can be used at higher power if you wish, but you should operate further away from them if doing so as @IanM pointed out. In my case, I hung them from existing ceiling plant hangers and curtain rods near the windows in a couple of rooms. Although I have external antennas feeding radios in my shack, those Ed-Fong antennas remain hanging in those rooms for ready and easy connection to my HTs when I want to use them. They are easy to take down, roll-up, pack and take camping as well. Good luck on your endeavor. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

The shortest range outdoors that I have personally experienced with those radios is a little over 1/2 mile. The maximum I have ever personally experienced has been around 2-1/2 miles. Most typically however for me range has been between 1/2-1 mile where I have used them. The flatter, more open the terrain and the fewer obstacles between the radios the better. If you are standing on a boat out on a huge open lake you might achieve 4-6 miles with those radios. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I have the RT Systems software for this and a number of other radios. I grabbed it the first I learned of it. The $25 fee is a small price to pay for a good user experience. A couple of notes for those that have not used RT System software. 1) The RT System cable for Wouxun radios works with both RT System software and the manufacturer’s software. If you buy RT Software you don’t need to by the Wouxun cable or another to use Wouxun software. 2) The RT System software will permit you to open a file for a different radio (e.g. KG-1000G) within the application for a different radio (e.g. KG935). These makes it super simple to import channel configurations from one model into another. For example, I was able to open open my KG-1000G file inside the 935G app and download that configuration directly into the 935. 3) The RT Systems software gives you the option to store channel configuration settings separate from radio menu preferences settings. This makes it further possible to share channel configurations between radios without messing up your radio setting preferences. 4) The current version of the 935 software has a bug in that it will not let you choose medium power when using the 462 interstitials. It limits you to Low (1/2 watt) setting, despite being permitted 5W per the FCC. While power can still be changed on the radio it is not a show stopper, but it is an inconvenient annoyance. One thing that CHIRP does that RT Systems does not is provide the ability to toggle the display between showing all channels and only used channels. Chirp also provides the ability to limit displayed channels to only those within a given range, whereas RT Systems does not. When working with large (or spread out) channel sets these features are true assets. I wish RT Systems would upgrade all their programmers to include this capability. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

You are the first person on this forum to mention the backwards menu operation. I reported that to BTWR the day after I received the radio. At that point in time the rotary knob did not operate when the function menu was live. I reported that I felt dyslectic using the up and down keys. That dual line display needs to go unless the menu can be made to behave like every other scrolling menu in the world. Fortunately the knob issue has since been resolved. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

First off, welcome to GMRS. Those radio are officially GMRS radios because power is just over 2w which is one of the crossover points from FRS to GMRS. I have four of them from back when they were rated at 5-watt. Yes, it is protocol to use your callsign for legal operation under your license. As you might expect, my wife and I both use the same callsign. However, when we are communicating with each other we append ‘Base’ ‘Mobile’ ‘Unit 1’ ‘Unit 2’ etc… depending which radio we are using. Our radios have labels on them, so if another family member is using one of them they too know what to append to the call sign. Using the callsign takes getting use to when you first start out, but it becomes second nature with practice. In some cases, it is so much so that you may find yourself repeating it far more that you legally need to. But is is also good practice IMO starting out. When you switch to radios that use repeaters, in all likelihood the repeater owners will want you and others to comply with the FCC rules regarding callsign usage. Again, welcome. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Hello Ian, Thanks for the continued tips. I set out to try this myself but was met with two separate and distinct viruses present inside the latest version of the Wouxun software I downloaded so I have no way to experiment until that issue is resolved. The virus details have been submitted to BTWR. Latest version of Norton immediately uninstalls the app and reports the issues upon an attempt to install. I agree that the feature is likely of little practical use for the masses, but as a supposed feature of the radio my objective really is about ‘does it work at all’, ‘how does it work’ and ‘what practical use for it is for the typical GMRS user?’ But I can immediately see benefits in a commercial fleet environment. Honestly, I rarely hear DTMF on the local GMRS repeaters, and when I do I surmise it is mostly the repeater owner remotely changing settings, based on conversations heard bounding the commands. I theorize there would be a lot of local pushback if suddenly the typical user had DTMF commands as part of their everyday transmissions. All of the Wouxun radios I have usability quirks that frustrate me, including the 905. In some cases it is the absence of the ability to configure something via the radio controls vs software that makes the radio feel 1/2 finished. I will admit one feature I would have liked to see work is the remote monitor/inspect. Of course this requires working DTMF. When I am doing simplex range testing I thought that could be a novel feature to leverage when doing some solo range testing. Regards, Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

@ElPaso on the surface it sounds like perhaps a defective radio. But there is more to try. One item is to confirm that receive and transmit frequency are in-fact correct. Consider switching the radio to VFO mode, or at least switching to the mode where channel number and frequency are displayed simultaneously. When receiving, is the displayed frequency correct for the GMRS channel you are intending to use? Does the frequency remain unchanged when you key the radio? On simplex both should be the same. Do your handhelds experience any level of noise/static like the 1000g or are they perfectly clear? Have you performed a factory reset since you began experiencing the issue? I have recent experience with another Wouxun radio model that had strange noises and static until a factory reset was performed. I like the idea of trying the battery only operation as already suggested. I like the idea of taking the KG-1000G outdoors, perhaps a 100’ or more away and seeing if there is any change. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I own the same radio and us it as a base also. Do you own any other compatible radios available to use for comparison with, perhaps radios that you could use to do you own communication experiments with the KG-1000G? Could you explain your base setup to us? What kind and size of supply, type and length of coax, location, elevation and type of antenna?, Are you communicating simplex, or duplex through a repeater when you have your issues. Do you live in or near a big city, or out in the country? All of these are just fishing questions that might lead to a nugget of insight that may allow us to help you. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Yes. If the repeater requires a code to open it up, and it transmits one also, then yes it sounds like you are set up correct. Yes, it is entirely possible the repeater is not working, or that you are out of the listening range of the repeater. Are you hearing any traffic on that frequency? Do you hear it while using 151.4 as your Rx code? It is fairly common for a repeater to continue to transmit for 1-5 seconds after it has ceased to receive a signal from someone that has successfully connected to it. Not all do though. Also, not all repeater send out a courtesy tone when a successful transmission ends. I would recommend driving to within a mile of the repeater and trying it from there. If the repeater is online, in good operational order, and your radios are programmed correctly, you should have success at that distance. Once you have success, head back home and try the repeater frequently on your way back see what kind of range you can get. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

If you are in-fact getting into the repeater, but not hearing anything on the 2nd radio, I agree with tweiss3 to put some distance between the two radios to eliminate the desense issue. If you separate them but still do not hear anything, then configuration and range come into question. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Tone mode means that your radio will be using the same squelch code when transmitting and receiving, which is most typical. I am with WyoJoe, I do not see an actual tone value in your list of settings. Do you have one entered, but forgot to list it here? Something to confirm also is if the repeater you are trying to use actually sends out a tone. If your radio is configured to require a tone on receive but the repeater does not send one out then you will not hear the repeater’s transmission. For clarity, you will never hear the squelch code. The squelch code tones (both CTCSS and DCS) are below 300Hz and filtered out of the radio’s audio. Also, repeaters do not always send out a courtesy tone (beep) at the end of a transmission, so unless you have prior knowledge/experience that a particular repeater sends out one, do not assume one will be present. Once you feel very confident that you have your radio settings correct, and you still cannot connect to the repeater, get in your vehicle and drive very close to the repeater and try again. Many repeaters have bigger mouths than they have ears. Which means you can hear them a great distances but you must be much closer to actually open it up to use it. I am dealing with one of those right now. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

A GMRS radio can only be used for business only if all parties have a license and therefor a callsign, or if the business holds a grandfathered/legacy license for using a particular GMRS frequency. Current generation FRS radios however share 21 frequencies with GMRS. The 462.7000 frequency listed above is one of those frequencies. That frequency can be used by FRS radios for simplex communication at up to 2-watts transmit power. On GMRS that same frequency can be used for simplex or duplex (repeater) communication at up to 50watts. Also, GMRS and FRS share many of the same CTCSS and DCS tones. This therefore makes it possible users of the two services to hear and/or communicate with one another even when codes are in use. Hope this helps. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Good Day Dan. Yes, the length of cable does have an effect on both transmission and reception equally. As does air, trees, buildings, antennas, hills and other medium that reside between two radios that are trying to communicate. In effect, power is lost/consumed as it travels through any medium. Yes, cable can effect SWR. If the cable is damaged or the connectors are poor quality or mate poorly the cable assembly can cause an elevated SWR, whereas a good cable assembly that is particularly long and otherwise has excessive loss can make the SWR misleadingly low. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Good Day Jim. Welcome to the forum. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Thanks for tracking down and posting the requested link. I did not get around to it this morning but observed you had already done so. While the linked report out did focus on HT testing, mobile/base units have been measured during my play since then. Of the sensitivity numbers I mentioned earlier, the radio with the least basic sensitivity is a 50w mobile. Thanks again. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

The basic sensitivity of all radios I own open squelch between -124dBm and -119dBm and provide full quieting around 12dBm higher. These are numbers as measured in a closed circuit connected directly to test equipment. All radios are affected by the presence of off-channel signals. The the better the front end filtering the less the radio is affected. The effective sensitivity therefore is the net usable sensitivity of the radio within a given RF environment. Measured effective sensitivity will almost always be worse than basic sensitivity except when the radio is used in a low noise environment. For example. If I measure the basic sensitivity of a radio in a closed circuit it might be -122dBm. If I perform an effective sensitivity of the same radio operating in my shack it might drop to -100dBm. If I then hook that same radio up to the outdoor antenna 40’ in the air, the effective value might change to -110dBm. If I then perform the same tests using a higher end radio under the exact same conditions the basic sensitivity might be exactly the same, but the effective sensitivity number might be -109dBm and -118dBm respectively. So, despite equal base sensitivity, the radios with better front-end filtering will effectively receive better in noisy environments, but will not receive any better in low-noise environments. As a point of reference, a year ago a generous friend of this forum loaned me (7) commercial radios so i could conduct field experiments against less costly products in my low-noise environment. Results were enlightening. Findings were reported on this forum. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I find zero correlation between measured sensitivity of any of my radios and their output power capability. All radios (HT, mobile and base alike) have basic sensitivity within a few dBm of one another. I have not measured any of the radios with non-removable antenna. The degree to which radios are desensed by other RF signals in the area is a separate topic. I would expect the higher-end radios with good front-end filtering to appear substantially more sensitive and usable in noisy environments. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Got it. Yes you can do that. For proper control over the radio I would expect the electronics interface to have the ability to regulate the flow of audio from one radio to the next so that when the someone is talking remotely over the network that the local receiver’s audio and COR are ignored, so that when someone is talking locally audio is passed through to the transmitter, and so CW can be injected/mixed with audio from either network or local receiver to comply with station identification requirements. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

No, I do not have definitive details on the pins labeled as ‘TBD’. On the mic connector, I expect those pins are used for signaling from the keypad keys and microphone audio. I feel very confident you could readily interface the programming ports from a repeater-pair of these radios to a Pi for the purpose you describe. What is the purpose of board you describe? Do you have some onboard functionality in mind? Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Good Day DownEastNC. An antenna that has been optimized for GMRS frequencies will equally well for both transmit and receive. It will receive almost all other frequencies too, but it will not perform as well as an antenna that has been optimized for the other frequency(s) of concern. The same can be said about a dual-band amateur radio antenna. Said antenna will perform best on the frequencies for which it has been designed/optimized (2m & 70cm). A few designs might have characteristics that make it acceptable for use also on GMRS but they will have lesser performance than a similar design optimized for GMRS. So, the bottom line is YES. If you are using an antenna optimized for amateur frequencies you are indeed compromising GMRS communications. Whether that compromise is material to you is totally up to you. I own both GMRS and amateur radios and antenna. Where weak stations are concerned, the GMRS multi-band radio used with the GMRS antenna receives GMRS signals more strongly than its amateur radio antenna and receiver. The reverse is also true. If I switch the GMRS radio to receive VHF frequencies, the amateur radio receives the signals more strongly. In both cases this is due to what the antenna is are optimized for. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Let’s not derail this thread. If the original poster wants to start a GMRS radio group, that is their right. If one individual is not blessed to have the discretionary resources for original equipment plus the ongoing operating and maintenance expenses for a repeater and a group of folks decide to share the expense of doing so, so be it. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

For reference, the power draw of the XS20G’s big brother, the KG-1000G, is as follows: @Idle @5w @20w @50w Conventional wisdom is to choose/design a power system so that the steady/continuous draw of the load is no more than 80% of the power system. For the 20w setting above, this would suggest a 7.5A supply.. However, this theory does not necessarily account for power-up surges which can be high. A 1.5-2x (and more) increase in power supply system capacity can at times be required. This would suggest a supply that can handle surges 9-12A (which would explain the 15A fuse). Most power supplies include some degree of surge capacity, which may be very well be 10% and more of their continuous rating. A well designed 10A continuous rated supply therefore would, in all probability, comfortably hand surges of 11A and greater. So assuming the KG-XS20G falls into the same 6A load draw as its big brother, a 10A + continuous rated supply would seem to be of sufficient size. While smaller sizes may also work well on receive, depending upon the quality of design and internal headroom of the supply and how long your transmission are, you may experience performance gremlins that have you scratching your head when transmitting. In the end, there is nothing wrong with the manufacturer’s 15A recommended power supply. It provides a very good and responsible safety margin. It also provides some extra power available for other things when you need it. Regards. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Here a link to the spec sheet for standard LMR400 https://timesmicrowave.com/DataSheets/CableProducts/LMR-400.pdf. Bend radius specifications are included within. They give two ratings. A once and done installation rating and another where repeated flex will occur. Yes, you can using a different cable for jumper, but is should be a 50-ohm jumper. Use the shortest practical length that suits your application. Do not deform your cable. Do not kink it. Do not secure it so tight that shape of the cable changes. Take and record reference measurements of your antenna system (feed-line, adapters, antenna) before permanently installing anything. Make sure all is acceptable first. If all is good, then install. Take SWR measurements along the journey so you can immediately spot any issues you have caused (such as kinking or deforming cable, effect of adapters, etc…). Yes, in most cases you can leave an SWR meter in circuit. Mine remains in circuit full time. I power it up when I need or want view readings, otherwise it remains off. It continues to pass signal when no power is applied. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

My personal experience over the last two years has been 10-48 hours. During that time, I have applied for license using the ULS for myself, and on behalf of some blind operators. Feel free to log back in to the FCC using your FRN number and double check your status. If a callsign appears you are golden. Check the data you entered while there to make sure it is all correct too, including your email. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Does anyone have a link to an audio file of what the existing data transmissions sounds like that the current legal crop of GMRS radios with location and texting data bursts produce? Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM