mbrun

The key is the word ‘operate’. In radio lingo ‘operate’ is synonymous with transmitting. For part 95e certification I interpret that that the FCC does not want user’s having the indiscriminate ability to transmit in other services, and they do prescribe what is allowed in GMRS. If the radio firmware enforces the rules, regardless of mode, I think the intent of the FCC requirements are fully satisfied. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Good day Radioguy. Good to see you back in the chat again. I think many interpret that, but that has never been my interpretation. What Wouxun seems to have done on some radios is bake the FCC rules into the radio’s firmware so that only valid combinations of frequencies and power can Tx, regardless of whether the radio is in VFO or Channel mode. And honestly, if a manufacturer is truly targeting 95e compliance, that is exactly what I would expect out of them. On some models not even a novice operator can mess it up. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

All the Wouxun GMRS radios with a VFO mode can all transmit on all GMRS frequencies while in VFO mode. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I had done some testing previously on what it takes to break squelch on a couple of different KG-1000G units. What I found was that they would break squelch with an input signal of around -125 to -123dBm. They would show all 9 bars on the meter when the signal level exceeded that break squelch point by approx 12dBm. In addition, when I performed some effectively sensitivity measurements on the radios while in my shack using two different antenna setups, I also found that 12dBm value to be the magic number for how much more the the desired signal needs to be above the noise or interference level in order for the radio to show full bars. As a result of this, I am currently associating full quieting or near full quieting with all nine bars being lit solid. Of course this is not being done with lab grade equipment so absolute values are certainly in question, but the relevant levels are useful nonetheless. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Fair enough. It is entirely possible the some tones are off-frequency just a little, the receiver decoders are off a little, or there is some noise present that is making it difficult for the decoder to do its job well on certain frequencies. There are lots of codes available and all you need is one that works well for you. Enjoy. BTW Fred, get registered and join the forum with an official user name if you can. You are still listed as “guest” on my end. Best Regards, Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I hear forward progress, so that is good news. Since there is 10dB difference between the low-power (5w) and high-power (50w) settings, and your testing seems to indicate lower power works and anything above that does not, it would seem to indicate you are in need of 10dB or more improvement in your Tx-Rx isolation. That improvement can come from either improved tuning of the duplexer if it is is not already tweaked to its maximum or you can switch to a high-quality duplexer. Duplexers can drift during transportation and with temperature shifts as I understand them. Perhaps you can connect with a local radio shop that can check the existing one out before you opt for a replacement. You may also need them to tweak the new one for you. Good job BTW in your isolation test. I believe your question regarding a second duplexer is where it would be viable to install it in the return path of between the receiver and primary duplexer so that you can take of the additional attenuation it provides? Correct? I will admit if I had one laying around I would certainly try that for experimentations sake. But if both units are lower-end units I would expect higher overall insertion losses leading to performance compromises. If I new for certain that the existing duplex was already peaked for its best performance already I believe I would cut my losses and invest in a single unit rated with the performance I needed. Perhaps others here may have some additional suggestions for you. On a different note. N1DAS brought up squelch tail. I too have and continue to use the term ‘squelch tail’ when a transmitting radio un-keys and when my local radio mutes (squelches). Years ago I learned that early CTCSS operation was achieved in part by the use of a mechanical reed switch that physically resonated. When the transmitter un-keyed the reed-switch continued to resonate for a period during which it had the effect of keeping the receiver unmuted for a short time even though Tx had stopped. This allowed noise into the receiving radio. Because this phenomena affected both simplex and duplex communication it stuck with me and has stayed even though nowadays the hold time on the repeater is an intentional and user adjustable parameter. While an official squelch tail and hold time are two different things, they both have the net affect of keeping one’s receiver unmuted (un-squelched) for a brief time after the transmission of concern has ended. N1DAS, thanks for the clarification. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Here is a link to radio that may be of some interest. https://www.amazon.com/Eton-Classic-Clear-Sounding-Shortwave-NELITE750/dp/B08BVSCY8G?ref_=ast_sto_dp A blind ham friend of mine has this radio and loves it. I played with it a bit when he first received it so I could educate him on its operation. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Great news. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To create groups you will need the software. But you can select the ‘ALL’ scan group on the radio and remove the channels you don’t want scanned. Each channel has a setting that allows you say if you do or do not want it scanned. No software needed for that. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seconding the OffRoader’s “Yes”. BTW, a repeater is considered to be under automatic control. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

You make a very good point and I appreciate saying it. How I interpret what you are saying is “with freedom and rights comes even bigger responsibility”. Thanks to you and all your fellow high profile repeater owners for sharing with the community. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I believe the radio should allow you to dial in DCS Codes of D271N and D271I (where the last digit is the letter ‘I’). Note that the letter ‘N’ standards for ‘Normal’ and the letter ‘I’ stands for ‘Inverted’. I do not know what codes are required for the NotARubicon 700 repeater so I cannot say if the codes you have are correct or not. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Yes. On that radio there is a single squelch value and it applies to all channels, whereas CTCSS and DCS values are channel memory specific. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Your comments make me wonder whether we you have a wide-band narrow-band incompatibility thing going on. All Midland GMRS radios are narrow-band out of the box. If a repeater is in the mix, perhaps it too is set for narrow-band (yes it is possible). Try changing the channels you are testing with on your 1000G and 905G to narrowband and try again. Note that the wide-band, narrow-band settings of the Wouxun radios are channel specific. Also, make sure that you do not have the compander turned on the 1000G. That is a useless feature in GMRS except when you communicating between like-model radios (which is seldom the case) and may actually prove to be an aggravator under the current circumstances. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Are you using carrier squelch or tones on the receive side of the radio? If using carrier squelch, what level setting are you using? Try the radio with no tones programmed into the Rx side of any channels and then set the squelch level to 1 to see if it makes a difference. Check the SWR on the antenna you’re using with the radio to make sure there is nothing going on there. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Glad to hear it is working out for you. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Please be sure to report back. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Glad you figured out the issue. As far as repeater tail length, you may receive a variety of personal preference opinions. As the owner that is up to you. I have worked repeaters with zero to 5-seconds and more of tail. If you include no tail then it makes for more guess work on the part of folks trying to figure out when they have had success connecting to the repeater. If you include a tail, it gives users some confidence they had enough signal to open the repeater. For an etiquette standpoint some senior radio enthusiasts long ago advised me of the following (and I paraphrase): When two or more parties are in a radio conversation they should all let the repeater squelch tail drop before keying up so as to give opportunity for a third party break in as they need to. For this purpose I personally think 3 seconds is sufficient and more than 5 seconds annoying. I agree that the wording in the manual is less clear than it could be. It is not 100% clear whether the setting in the Rx or Tx portions of the repeater is the one that actually gets used while in repeater mode. If you set both the same it should not make a difference. To know which is actually being used, set the value in one unit and test. Then set the value in the other unit and test. Based on the wording “If no valid QT/DQT is detected within the hold time”, I speculate it is the radio that serves as the Rx function in the repeater is the one that actually gets used in operation. But that is just speculation. After you test and confirm which one is being used, please report back. Congrats on getting the repeater operational. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

You have access to another radio you can use to communicate with your 1000G? If so, perhaps you can have a family member operate the 1000G while you operate a different model. That would give you first hand experience in hearing whatever the anomaly might be. Yes, it is certainly possible that there is something wrong with the radio, but it may not have anything to do with the tones. It could be something else all together. It is going to take some troubleshooting track down the issue. Once you are on the other end using a different radio, experiment with communications with and without tones. Experiment at different power levels, different mic positions and different voice levels. What you are looking for is a clear set of conditions where the issue always exists and where it always does not exist. I have heard of tones and decoders not being accurate and not doing their job well, but I cannot say I have heard of tones causing the symptoms as described. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

If you are doing it for “the learning experience” then go for it. That is how we all learn best We try things and learn what does and does not work. But consider it like a high-end college education, learning is expensive. For many of us the more it costs us and/or the more we get burned, the more we take away from it. What one learns however is actually quite predictable when it comes to radio since fortunately many have gone before us and have shared their knowledge with the world. Some key things we can predict will be learned. - A high antenna elevation relative to obstacles and receiving antenna are material to extending one’s useable range. - Adding more power does not translate into proportionally greater operating range. - We cannot cost-effectively and legally buy enough power to overcome insufficient antenna elevation. - Watt-for-watt, A home brew repeater will have less usable range in any given direction than operating the same radios simplex. - The average person does posses the knowledge nor the test equipment to optimize the performance of a duplexer and will need to rely on other$ for both. - A commercial-grade purpose built repeater will out perform a home-brew repeater built from consumer-grade components. If, down deep, your real hope is own a repeater that achieves some specific pre-imaged coverage range, here is my recommendation to you. Focus on simplex first. Figure out what it takes to achieve more than your must-have imagined radio-to-radio range. Figure out what type of antenna, how high it must be and with what power and type of radios. Now, once you have figured all that out and are satisfied, then let the repeater enter into the equation. For at this point you can be reasonably assured that you can achieve repeater success with the right equipment. From personal perspective, I do not own and operate a repeater. While I believe I could afford one, I cannot justify the cost of achieving the antenna elevation I need to achieve the coverage I would want to make it worth my while. While some people are blessed to have great access to antenna sites and others have high natural geography to make it viable for them, most of us do not. You may be one of the lucky ones. Whatever you do, enjoy working with radios. They are a great tool to have. Regards Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Squelch tail duration is adjustable on the radio, but it should not vary arbitrarily. Since it seems to be varying I suspect some other factor(s) are coming in to play. As Offroader mentioned, that setting is adjustable, but it is accessible only via software. The adjustment range is 0-5sec. The manual calls it “Repeat Hold Time” Make sure sure you are using CTCSS or DCS on the KG1000G unit you are using as the receiver so that the transmitter will be activated only when the receiver detects them. If you do not have tones set on the receiver then interfering noise can be picked up, the squelch will open and thus cause the transmitter to continue to Tx. Pay close attention to the Rx light on the repeater receiver when you are experiencing the long tail. Is the Rx light on the whole time, even when your radio is not transmitting? It it is, that would indicate some other signal is holding the Receiver squelch open and thus causing the Transmitter to continue longer than desired. If you are already using CTCSS or DCS codes, consider trying different ones for Rx and Tx codes to see if it yields a different behavior. The duplex tuning could also be in question. Leakage from Tx to Rx side could perhaps manifest itself in strange ways. Just food for thought. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I recommend giving BTWR a call. They should be able to give you a pretty good idea where you stand in the queue. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

The menu system on the KG-XS20G is equivalent to the KG-935G so that makes it a little easier to use all its functionality. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I use the Midland NMO mag mount on my Ford Escape. It resides top-dead center of my vehicle roof, immediately behind the first roof carrier cross bar. Cable is dressed to the roof rack members all the way back where it enters the vehicle through the hatch seam. Has worked great for me over the last year. I have two NMO antennas I use, one optimized for GMRS (the Midland MXTA26), one for ham bands (a Comet). I do swap the antennas based on the radio I am using. The SWR on both antenna is great for their intended bands, but neither is quite acceptable to me for use outside their design range, so I just switch them out. A bit inconvenient I admit, but very doable. I also use various HT in the vehicle connected to the external antenna and overall have been pleased with the results. I use the KG1000G in the home as a base. One thing I am certain you will appreciate is how loud the radio can get while in the car. Volume can be a weakness of using an HT in the vehicle, particularly if you traveling with the windows down. I admit, I have not placed a cap over NMO mount when going through the car wash. I just wipe it off good before putting the antenna back on when leaving the wash. One or the other antenna is otherwise always installed. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Good find on the o-ring and suitable replacement. Thanks for sharing. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM