mbrun

You are not alone. Same type of issue has been reported to me on many occasions. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Life is so much better with a VNA as compared just an SWR meter. It takes away so much of the guesswork. Recently I was requested by a local radio enthusiast if I was familiar with a particular antenna he had been gifted. I was not familiar with it, and neither was he. In short order with the aid of the VNA I was able to ascertain what band(s) it was suitable for and just how well it was tuned for them. I agree. If you know how to use a VNA you can tell whether the antenna has been trimmed to far or not yet enough. One thing about trimming. Take it slow. Take off less than you think you’ll need to in-order to creep up on the final length. It may take a bit long to get there but it lessens the risk of going too far and suddenly having to purchase a new antenna. Been there, done that. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Good Day mpoole. Welcome to myGMRS. I am not familiar with the term “Busy Channel” in the way you are using it. Perhaps you can clarify. At present I am interpreting that your squelch is opening up when you think it should not on a couple of channels (15 and 23), is that correct? When you don’t hear CW on the radio, and the radio appears busy (green light flashing) are you hearing anything else? Noise? Digital Sounds? The first point to note is that both channels 15 and 23 are actually the exact same receive frequency, if you are using the default configuration supplied by the manufacturer. Both use 462.5500 MHz. Now, whereas Channel 15 transmits and receives on the same frequency, channel 23 receives on one frequency and transmits on a another. This other frequency is used for communicating through repeaters. The KG-805G has squelch settings that range from zero (no-squelch/un-muted) to 9. The later will require the greatest and most noise-free signal to open up (un-mute) the radio, in the absence of it detecting a CTCSS or DCS code. If your radio is operating in an area where there is elevated RF noise on or near the frequency you are tuned to, then yes, that low setting of 1 in combination with the signals in the area will unmute the radio. Note that one (1) is the most sensitive of all the squelch settings. I live in an area with incredibly low RF noise. In most all cases I can set my radios to a squelch setting of 1 and they will never open up in the absence of someone actually communicating near me. However, if take my 805G into my office and rest it near near my desktop computer or iPAD, the RF noise being given off by either of these computers is enough to cause it to break squelch wif the radio has a squelch setting less than 5. If I hook that same radio up to my outdoor antenna I can set squelch level back to 1 without issue. I imagine your vertex repeater is using an outdoor antenna while your 805G is using a rubber duck indoors so perhaps conditions are similar. So is the radio busy when the radio is in the house, but not busy when it is outside? Also, I have found the 805G receiver to have the most sensitive receiver of all my radios, breaking squelch with levels as low as -125dBm. Perhaps this added sensitivity is affecting you. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I am loving the journal of your project. Thanks for sharing it with the community. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Welcome to myGRMS. Yes, they use the same callsign as you. As @wayoverthere has indicated, you can add a suffix to end to differentiate different parties. Some ideas include. If you have two radios, one is a mobile, one is an HT, then you can use your call sign followed by ‘mobile’ and ‘handheld’. If you have a base and a mobile, you can use your callsign followed by ‘base’ and ‘mobile’. If you have a number of radios, as many of us do, you can merely put a unique number or letter on each radio and use that value as your suffix (‘Unit 1‘, ‘Unit A’ or just ‘A’) When I am communicating with my wife, we generally use a suffix (base, mobile, unit 1). But when I alone am on the radio communicating with others, I don’t use the suffix. The suffix gets used only during active communication with family. Yesterday I heard the wife of a regular GMRSr on the radio for the very first time. She appended “B” to the end of her callsign so I was able to immediately associate her as a member his family. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I think the FCC let the cat out of bag with ‘Channel Numbers’ for GMRS when they allowed hybrid FRS/GMRS radios years ago. The masses do not easily relate to frequencies, only channels (think TV, FRS, etc.). FRS radios before hybriding (if that is a term?) were originally 1-14 so the hybrids with GMRS became 1-24 with 1-14 remaining unchanged. And now with repeater support they are all 1-30. Every FRS, Hybrid, and now the newer GRMS radio hav the concept of “channel numbers”; they are the memory numbers of the radio. On the programmable ones, the default programming of the part 95e radios uses the same memory numbers to represent the same frequencies, without exception to date. Since the programmable radios also allow for a custom name for the memory channel, they all are labeled as ‘GMRS 1’, ‘GMRS 21”, etc…). While there are many long-time GMRSrs that have never thought of GMRS frequencies in terms of ‘Channel Numbers’, for better or worse, the manufacturers of type certified radios appear to have all adopted the use of the same number to mean the same frequency. Users that think in frequencies will now need to do some mental flip-flopping. Good for building brain cell connections I guess. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I am going to break in down in a different way. - Every GMRS radio that transmits a signal is a “station”. - Every station is required to ID using the callsign of the station licensee, according the rules. - When a simplex radio transmits the operator is required to ID and it is carried on the frequency they are transmitting on. Any listener to that frequency can hear the ID. - When a duplex operator transmits from their station, the operator is required to ID. That ID is carried on their transmit frequency and it will be picked up by the repeater and any other listener to that frequency. - When a repeater owner transmits through their repeater, their ID is first carried on their radio’s transmit frequency. When the repeater receives and retransmits their signal, their ID is then carried on the frequency that the repeater sends out, thus the repeater can also be said to have identified. All stations operating under the authority of that licensee thus have been identified. - When a repeater owner is not using the repeater, but instead it is being used exclusively by others during any given 15 minute usage interval, the required ID of the station owner never occurs. While those using it may have ID’d themselves, the repeater station has technically never ID’d itself. If repeater owner is one vacation and the repeater is used by others for a whole week, then the station has, according to the rules, not identified in a week. Hope this helps some. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

You must use a meter that is designed for use on the GMRS frequencies. Good eye @axorlov . Absent that, readings are unknown. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

There is always RF noise around us. I agree that you only need to worry about the RF noise to the degree that is is adversely affecting you and to the degree you are generating noise that might adversely affect others. You take the actions necessary to solve the problem, whatever it may be. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Welcome to myGMRS. Sorry to hear of your disappointment. Been there, done that. The misleading advertising of cheap radio brands is IMHO mostly to blame for the public’s unrealistic expectations of simplex radio range. In the real-world, range is a very tiny fraction of what the manufacturers assert. In my 20 years of experience with UHF, 1/2 mile HT-HT simplex range outdoors has become my only realistic expectation of coverage. Why? Because I have not yet experience less than that outdoors. It has always been that distance or more. I always hope for more depending local conditions. I live about 20 miles SE of Cincinnati in an area where the RF noise floor is very low. When I tested range (reported on this forum) between Wouxun (KG-805G) radios and Part 90 radios (motorola and vertex ) there was no notable difference in usable range. .6 miles is all I could achieve reliably in my around-home test. Beyond that it was rapidly downhill, with hit and mis communications out to about 1-1/2 miles. Radios ranged in MSRP price from $30 each to $750. Terrain was mostly flat to slightly rolling, 60% trees, houses every 1-5 acres and some small fields. Those same 805G radios have achieved HT-HT simplex coverage out to 2-1/2 +/- miles under more open outdoor terrain (fewer obstacles) conditions. Also, when connected to the base antenna above my home, the 805G has on a number of occasions communicated successfully through a repeater 50 miles to my north and whose antenna is many 100s of feet higher in elevation than mine. They have achieved 34 miles through select repeaters while using a mobile antenna on my vehicle, but can’t open a low-profile home-owner repeater beyond 1 mile. So, my first takeaway from all this is that the more the obstacles between the radio antennas the less the usable distance. The higher the antenna, the fewer the obstacles, the greater the range. My second take away is this. There is little to no difference in usable range between the inexpensive radios and the more expensive radios when both are used in a low RF noise environment. In my case, purchasing more expensive radios for use where I live would not yield me any more usable range. If I purchased them it would be for other reasons. My third takeaway. If I were to move closer to the city or into an area with notably higher RF background noise, like perhaps where you live, I would expect my range to be reduced, perhaps even dramatically, and that to improve on that I would likely need to purchase radios with substantially more selective receivers. But even then, I would not be able to better the range I can achieve in a low noise environment. Only fewer obstacles and higher antenna elevation would help with this. Some things for you to consider. 1) Put a base radio in your home complete with an external antenna as high as you practically can afford to. Rely on that station for communication between home and your HTs while on foot in the neighborhood. 2) Purchase higher-quality radios if you are able to conclude that your range is truly being limited by off-channel RF noise and not obstacles. Some well seasoned local hams who own spectrum analyzers or other technical radio professionals could help you with this. Contact a local ham club for recommendations. 3) Consider putting up a repeater that is much closer to your home if you or a group of friends have access to a very high antenna location and could afford the capital and operating expense. If the closest repeater is truly to far away for your local use, having one that is within range could be an asset for you and the community. Height is everything. Good luck on your journey. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Yes, as @wrci350 has quoted from the rules. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Welcome to myGMRS. I own many of the GXT1000 radios. They will permit you to hear, but not talk on repeaters. They are designed for simplex communication only, and are in the same league as bubble pack FRS radios. The FRS and GMRS share 22 frequencies, all of which are used for 2-way simplex communication (radio-to-radio). Because the two services share these 22 frequencies FRS and GMRS radios may intercommunicate in the same way that FRS-to-FRS radios can. The gem of the GMRS is that repeaters are allowed, and to support this the FCC has allocated 8 additional frequencies that are reserved for communication to and through a repeater. The GXT1000 does not have those frequencies. A repeater uses two frequencies. One that is listens on, one that it transmits on. A repeater-capable GMRS radio will have the ability to use two frequencies as well. When communicating through a repeater your radio will also transmit on one frequency and receive on another. If, for example, your handheld is working is working a 575 repeater, then your radio would transmit on 467.5750 MHz, the repeater will receive your signal on 467.5750 MHz and then retransmit it on 462.5750 MHz and your radio and others will receive it on the 462.5750 MHz frequency as well. This is called Duplex communications. You can hear the repeaters on you GXT1000 because the 8 frequencies that repeaters transmit on are 8 of the same frequencies also used for simplex communications. So, the bottom line for you is that if you wish to communicate through repeaters you will need the following: - A repeater-capable radio. - Permission from the repeater owner to use their repeater. - Correct programming of the radio so that is transmitting on the correct frequency using the CTCSS or DCS code given to you by the repeater owner, and receiving on the frequency that the repeater transmits on. - Operate within the usable 2-way coverage range of the repeater and your radio. Hope this helps. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Yes, that is the correct one. Just make sure to order an NMO base to go with it. Enjoy. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

As MichaelLax has indicated, the repeater tail is a function of the repeater and is set by the repeater owner. If you were building your own repeater out of a pair of KG-1000G then you would setting the tail on one of those two radios that comprises your repeater. The KG1000 does have a setting for adjusting the tail, but it is only relevant when it is repeater mode and being used as part of a repeater system. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

The concern over the loss in the feed-line is secondary, IMO, until the duplexer issue is put to bed. I love the fact that you are doing simplex tests first using low power HT and the exact antenna system (feed-line and cable) that you’ll be using with the repeater. This is a good way to establish your best case scenario. I would advocate that approach to anyone considering installing a repeater. I do not expect the RT97 two-way line of site range to equal what you can achieve doing simplex, even when the duplex is adjusted as best as is possible. The duplexer is the limiting factor. However I would expect dramatically better Rx range than the 1000ft you have indicated you have achieved thus far. Owners and users of the RT97 are better qualified to offer real-world distances they have achieved. There is one member on this forum that has one installed in Alaska, operating on battery and solar power. I believe 10-20 miles or more have been achieved. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Best is going to be purely subjective. I cannot say what the best mobile antenna is for you. What I can say is that I have owned and continue to use the Midland 6dBi antenna and its associated Midland mag mount now for 1-1/2 years. It was impeccably tuned for GMRS from the factory and remains that way today. It has held up physically well, including surviving many tree branch and garage door opening hits, and it has weathered two summers and one winter weather thus far and continues to look great. If I were to buy another antenna today I would not hesitate to buy it again. I have no negative comments about the unit I own. Until recently the Midland was used strictly with a 5w HT and it allowed be to regularly hold conversations using that combination through a few high-profile repeaters at distances of 34 miles and more when I traveling regionally. Recently I outfitted my vehicle to accept my KG1000G. In the two weeks since I have did that I can say that my HT exhibited slightly better reception, but as I had hoped, others have reported I am getting into the repeater better. This can be attributed to the 10-fold increase in output power. When working the fringe of repeaters range, the added Tx power is a bonus. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Actually, yes. That is how I discovered it. Early on when I was getting familiar with the radio and I was using the software. I was trying to get the reset menu to appear and work, assuming it would do what the rest of the GMRS radio reset functions do. At one point in my playing I had no channels in the software. When I sent the sent to the radio it was suddenly in VFO mode, wide-band, full power, with the ability to Tx on all tunable frequencies in its supported portion of the UHF band. All I needed to do was scroll to the frequency of choice. In another case I was trying to use an existing Chirp driver configure the channels. We all know it is a lot easier to use Chirp or RT Systems than the manufacturer software. In my experiments there, I discovered again that the firmware does not limit what the radio channels can do. Although I was using a non 805 driver for my experiments, I did discover that there were no firmware safeguards to prevent Tx outside the GMRS service. It could be configured at will. Of course when I was playing with Chirp I was well aware I may brick the radio, as others should know as well. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

You are not like the first to order or build their first repeater without full awareness of duplex. Live and learn. There is much available on the net regarding them. Most repeater radios can be programmed for a wide range of frequencies, the RT97 is no exception. Duplexers are not software controlled. They are tuned circuits that require good-old-hands-on calibration by a skilled technician. The VNAs I know of include a tracking generator. The signal generated by the VNA gets passed through the duplexer and then back to the VNA to be analyzed. So there is no need for an external tracking generator. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Not, not exactly. Wouxun does have an official part 95e FRS radio (805F). They actually have an 805 F, G, and M version. The F version is the exact same radio as the 805G, but power and bandwidth are theoretically limited to FCC FRS values. I suspect the software disallows using repeater input frequencies also. One thing I learned about the 805G is that the firmware is not locked down like the rest of the line. The radio can transmit out of band, wide bandwidth, and at full power. Compliance is actually achieved at the software level, not the firmware, but I digress. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

The following post got me to thinking about how much current the Wouxun mobile radios might be drawing from the vehicle battery if left connected. Wouxun 805G Battery Drain https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=112680&share_tid=3397&url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums%2Emygmrs%2Ecom%2Findex%2Ephp%3F%2Ftopic%2F3397-Wouxun-805G-Battery-Drain&share_type=t&link_source=app I decided to put the amp meter on the radio and take two measurements. One with the radio On and scanning using both receivers and one with the radio powered off. - Radio turned on, scanning, but not reproducing audio: 410mA (.41A). - Radio powered off: 31mA (.031A). So, similar to the handheld radio in the reference post, if the radio is left connected to the battery it will draw down the battery. If left connected long enough, it will completely discharge the battery; how long it takes is clearly of function of battery type and capacity. This residual draw is not terribly significant if the vehicle is being used regularly. However, if you have a vehicle that perhaps is sitting idle for an extended period, perhaps as I had during the pandemic, the residual load is going to discharge the battery at a faster rate than if the battery was not connected to anything. The residual loads of one of my vehicles caused a two-year old battery to go completely dead 3 times during the pandemic. Worth noting. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Funny you said that. Earlier this year I did some local testing that involved use of a dummy load on radio with 1/2 watt. Signal was receivable 1/3-1/2 mile away. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

The KG-805F is not dual watch, but it is legal for transmitting on FRS as well as listening to a chunk of the UHF spectrum, so long as you program in the specific frequencies you want him to have access to. All other dual-watch radios I know of require a GMRS or Amateur radio license. The KG-935G as True Dual Receive radio and legally transmit on all GMRS frequencies and can listen to NOAA and wide range of VHF and UHF spectrum. Radio is probably a bit big for a 5 year old, but with a handheld mic he could key it easily. I honestly believe you could coach your son into using a call sign acceptably. One thing you could do with the radio to minimize is reach is to remove the repeater channels from the radio until his radio etiquette has improved to your liking, and you can turn the power down on all channels to 1/2 watt, comparable to FRS. You could even switch all the Tx channels to narrow band, again comparable to FRS. Just some additional thoughts for you. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Good Day Matt. Your symptoms are indicative of desense, most likely caused by incorrect adjustment of the repeater’s duplexer. The purpose of the duplexer is to prevent leakage of the repeater’s transmit signal back into the repeater’s RF input. If it leaks in it will drown out/cover up/mask the signal received from your HTs and other radios trying to use the repeater. To achieve optimum performance, the duplexer must be calibrated for the specific frequencies that your repeater is set to operate on. When repeater frequencies change, the duplex has to be re-tuned/calibrated for the frequencies in use. So although your repeater can change is frequencies, a duplexer needs to be recalibrated for each change. I cannot speak to what frequency pair your particular duplexer might have been tuned for at the factory, or even it was tuned at all. But your symptoms strongly suggest it is not the 650 frequency pair. But even if it was once tuned for 650, changes caused by jostling in transit could have thrown it out. In order to tune the duplexer yourself you will need to possess the knowledge and test equipment to do so. If you do not have both, then you will need to seek out a person that does. A radio service shop or an amateur radio operator that actively maintains repeater sites are both candidates for this. A precision lab-grade VNA is the typical instrument required for doing this. On the net you will find many videos that cover duplexer tuning, so the procedure is well documented. The fabulous but inexpensive NanoVNA does not perform well enough to calibrate a duplexer optimally. However, according to a recent YouTube post, In the hands of an experienced skilled operator, it appears that perhaps the $200 NanoVNA v2Plus4 might be able to help one get pretty close. Hope this helps.

Welcome to the forum. Enjoy GMRS and the knowledge you’ll gain here. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I own and have used both the GMRS and dual-band amateur versions. Both get used periodically and they will remain part of my radio tool kit. Although I have shack with external base antennae antenna at my home, the Ed-Fongs hang from plant hanger hooks near windows in other rooms. They provide better communications when using HTs in those spaces. I also grab them and put them into my radio bag when traveling. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM