mbrun

@Music2Me one thing you can do is to check your radio against another radio. If I understand correctly, your key concern is determining if you have a defective radio, and if so, you want to be proactive in getting it replaced. Does this sum it up? Suggestion: Get your hands on another current generation radio (same model or higher quality) that you can use as a test transmitter source. Set this Tx radio to a frequency/channel you are authorized to operate on that is shared with your 935G. Set your receive radio to the same frequency. Test every CTCSS and DCS code on your transmit radio. Using your receive radio, scan for the codes that your transmitter is sending. Scan upwards and downwards to confirm the receiver stops reliably on the expected code. Start your test by using the same two codes that experienced your 935G picking up the 70cm repeater with. Then work through all the rest. So that you don’t burn out your test Tx radio, set its power to low. If you have a dummy load available, hook the Tx radio to the dummy load instead of an antenna. Doing this will still give your Rx radio a good usable signal, but at a level that simulates more real-world levels. As long as you are seeing 50% or more on the meter of your Rx radio you should be good to go. Keep track of which codes are reliably caught when scanning up and down and which ones are unreliable. If you end up with a high percentage of repeatable failures, then you may have found a justification for requesting a replacement, or for returning the radio and purchasing a different model. I hope this idea helps. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Something in the mix sounds defective. Defective/incorrect antenna, defective mount, open circuit or short circuit in the RF path, defective meter, etc… I am not familiar with the antenna referenced, but it does not appear it needs to be or can be tuned from what I see at one website I looked. And WOW! The antenna manufacturer is boasting 400 watt capability for a service that is only allowed 2. Very interesting. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

You need height to get the most out of any repeater. At only 40’ AGL I suspect you may achieve less than 1 perhaps out to 2 miles. Perhaps only just enough that you can use HTs while walking around your neighborhood. Off course, I do not know you specific conditions and it could be more or less. I do not have any suggestions for you as far as HOA are concerned. I will let others tackle that issue. But a super tall antenna is not a common staple of acceptability in an HOA. As far as ‘how much is too much cable’. That is truly relative to a lot of factors that play together to meet your objectives. Hypothetically, though, if you put 300’ of LMR between the Retevis 5 watt repeater (or any other 5 watt radio) and an antenna, there would only be about 1/2 watt of signal left making it to the antenna. The rest would be lost in the cable. This means your transmission coverage would be reduced substantially, as would your ability to pick up weak signals. This translates into transmit performance equal to or less than a FRS radio set to low power, and receive performance perhaps equal to or worse than the poorest of all FRS radios made. In a quality repeater setting, the antenna often finds itself 100s of feet in the air. And while there is likely many 100s of feet of feed-line between the radio and antenna, the cable used is way better and substantially more expensive than the $1.10/ft for LMR400, has super low loss and is like running running copper water pipe and uses connectors more expensive than a lot of HTs. In these installations too, the repeater is located in a building directly at the base of the antenna tower or mast. Spend some time learning about radio. Perhaps even install a base antenna on your home for simplex use. You will learn a lot by doing. Good luck. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Welcome to myGMRS. Yes, there are quite a number of repeaters in Ohio. I cannot speak to whether there any near you however. If you perform a search at https://mygmrs.com/repeaters you should be able to see those repeaters. Use the advanced filter and search by State, and choose the option to include stale repeaters. Stale repeaters might still be online, but have not be confirmed as being online by their owner for some time. You can only use repeaters that are within radio range of you and for which you have the owner’s permission to use. Always remember that repeaters are private property and usable with permission. If there are no repeaters within radio range of you, your options are limited to talking simplex with your friends and family, making an investment to put up and maintain your own repeater, or wait until someone else in your area puts one up and chooses to make it publicly available. If you put one up that is high performance and high profile enough it could be you that is doing a service for the community. Perhaps you and your family could pull resources to cover the capital and operating costs of one. If you go the simplex route, consider a base for your home and an external antenna as high as you can practically afford to get it so as to give you the best possible reach you can from your location. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

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The quality of decoding in a given radio can be an issue, as can the quality/accuracy of encoding by the transmitter. The quality/strength of signal you receive can play into this also. I learned long ago that some CTCSS and DCS codes work better (are more reliable) than others, but I do not have the research to back that up. I suspect the commercial radio companies like Motorola have the data to substantiate this. Over the last couple of years I have experienced similar issues with a couple of weak amateur radio repeaters where it seemed that one day one code was required and on a different day another code was required. I doubted the codes changed. In one particular test I did, I found was it was just one of my radios having difficultly decoding those particular repeaters. I do not have the equipment to accurately determine the accuracy of the tone being sent out, so it is hard to validate how accurate the Tx code really is. At present, I am inclined to blame weak signal and less than optimal Rx decoding. Perhaps other will have more to share.

You will find loads of pictures of antenna masts with vertical antennas on the net. Here is an outdated picture of mine. I believe you question is more about where to mount the repeater? Is that correct? That is you decision. You could install repeater indoors and route the coax through the wall out to your antenna on a mast. Or you could install repeater outdoors, securing it to your home or the antenna mast directly and then locate the power supply indoors, running the cable through the wall out and out to the repeater. If you have a power outlet outdoors you can perhaps avoid the need to feed power from inside the building. Mounting the repeater outdoors on the mast has the benefit of reducing your expense for feed-line (coax). If you were putting up a commercial repeater, you will want to be very selective in your antenna choices. For getting started, and given that cost is a concern, just about any GMRS antenna will work. When you are putting up a commercial repeater, you will want to be very selective in your feed-line choice. But getting started, LMR400 coax will be an acceptable choice. You can reuse that with your base when the time comes. When you are ready and can afford some serious gear, expect to upgrade your antenna, feed-line when you upgrade your repeater, if you take the budget approach initially. Good luck. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Although approved, no change expected until the FCC gets their systems updated to support the new process and fee for amateur radio. I have heard no specific date it will take affect. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

An external mobile mounted antenna with your HT will be a huge improvement over the use of an HT with its rubber duck (or even the 771G) antenna. I ran that way for over a year, and was very pleased with the outcome. The good news is that you can use that same antenna when you decide to put a KG-1000G or other mobile radio in your vehicle. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I feel your pain. Fortunately, I have been able to power through with nothing more than a small sledge. In the past I have read up on alternative techniques that are permitted for use when a direct drive rod is not possible or electrically unsatisfactory. I just can not recall the variant’s off the top of my head. You my wish to check out https://www.mikeholt.com. He runs an internet site many electricians turn to to learn and to work through challenges like yours. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Travel tone is the term that has evolved to refer the specific CTCSS tone of 141.3Hz. It stems from the historic ‘Open Repeater Initiative’ and its attempt to standardize the CTCSS tone that folks traveling could use to access select repeaters along the route of their travels. So now days when you hear ‘Travel Tone’, think CTCSS 141.3Hz. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Your situation suggests that you may not have the “clear shot to that repeater” you suggest. 14 miles with truly a clear shot should result in very good strength (perhaps 40dB of more to spare), and with minimal effect from the environment. Given that pickup is touchy in the garage and that you are also having communications using the antenna on the roof, there are other factors that coming into play. These could very well be losses caused by many obstructions in the signal path and reflections caused by the environment. Changing the physical location (horizontally and/or vertically) may make a difference. Marc makes some good suggestions. Heed them. Always start your troubleshooting by making sure first that your antenna, then your complete antenna system, making sure both show they tuned correctly. You may wish to invest in and learn how to use a NanoVNA. I concur that your antennas are too close together. Depending upon your operating power you could perhaps damage one radio while transmitting on the other, but this is a completely separate concern from what you brought up. For example, if your antennas are 3 feet apart, one antenna has a gain of 9dBi, one of 5dBi and assuming your amateur radio transmits at 100 watts on 70cm, the GMRS radio could see as much as 10 watts coming back in if my calculations are correct. If your radios cannot handle that in a sustained way you could experience a failure. Consider arraying your antennas vertically rather than horizontally if they are going to installed in close proximity so that you can benefit from the axial losses in their coverage patterns. As far as additional troubleshooting is concerned. Consider getting on the roof and trying operation merely with a 5w HT at various locations to see which locations might exhibit stronger signals. It would be interesting for you to contrast the results against your chimney mounted GMRS antenna and perhaps there is some insight to be gained. When you are operating in the fringe area of a repeater for what ever reason it is fringe, the smallest physical displacement of an antenna can make the difference between whether you receive or do not receive a signal. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Being Monday is MLK day, there could be an even further delay, if the government computers get the day off too. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

As has been mentioned, the ARRL has a book on the subject of Ground and bonding. Information can be found here: http://www.arrl.org/grounding-and-bonding-for-the-amateur. If you are in the mode of learning, purchase and read it. The ARRL also has links to a lot of other references for those that care to dig in deeper. But be aware that there are competing theories amongst true experts about the ‘Best’ way. From a pure safety standpoint, the National Electric Code describes the minimum requirements. This means, in part, that the NEC does not concern itself with RF grounding in any way that may help or hinder radio performance. Anything you may choose to do special for RF is over and above. So, at a minimum, follow the national electric code. At least if when you do, should you have a lose from lighting, your insurance company should have no leg to stand-on in denying your claim. Now, let’s consider a common installation and a common and appropriate method of grounding. Here is the scenario. You have a 30 foot metal antenna mast mounted outside, next to and attached to your home. A vertical antenna is mounted to the top of the mast. Your radio will be located in a first floor room or in the basement. The coaxial cable will enter the home within a few feet of the mast. Hear are the steps involved. A ground rod would be driven into the ground within a couple feet of the base of the mast. A heavy copper wire (#6 AWG) or larger would be used to interconnect the mast to this ground rod. Clamps made for this purpose would be used to secure the wire at both ends. A coax of appropriate type and length is attached to your antenna. The coax runs down and is secured to the mast periodically so it does not flail in the wind. A coaxial cable lighting arrestor gets attached directly to the ground rod. The antenna coax attaches to the appropriate port on the arrestor. A 2nd coax connects to the remaining port on the arrestor and is runs into your home and connects to your radio. The penetration into the home is sealed well against moisture ingress. A #6AWG copper bonding conduction is then run below ground between your new ground rod to your home’s main/primary electrical ground rod. This bonding conductor is then securely connected to both ground rods. Clamps made for exactly this purpose are used. This step ensures both ground rods are now at the same voltage potential. If your conditions are different, then some additions to, or modifications of this basic scenario will be warranted. In the end however, the basic principles will still be applied, just perhaps in a more complex configuration. In summary, the mast gets connected to its own dedicated ground rod(s). A ground rod exists exists within feet of where the coaxial cable enters the home. The coaxial cable from the antenna gets connected to a lighting arrestor just before it enters the home. The lighting arrestor is either attached directly to the ground rod or interconnected to it with heavy copper cable (if it cannot be conductively mounted directly to it for some reason). All ground rods are bonded together with heavy copper cable per the NEC. And there you have it, the basics. If you pursue knowledge on this topic you will learn that none of these precautions will prevent damage to and perhaps total loss of your equipment in the event of a direct hit. Direct hits do happen to home antennas, but are relatively rare. What is far more common is lighting strikes nearby that induce voltage on your antenna system, and the static build up on the antenna system that can shock you or damage your equipment. It is these later two more common conditions that these steps ultimately help you with. Good luck on your project. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

The pinout for the cable can be found on page 19 of the owner’s manual for the KG-1000G. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Yes, if you put a more powerful radio in the car I would expect you to be able to transmit a bit further. But a more powerful radio does not mean you will receive any better. On the other hand, both a higher antenna and/or antenna with higher gain help you transmit further and receive better with the radio it is connected to. When compared to an HT with rubber duck, a similar powered radio in your car using an external mobile antenna will result in greater transmit and receive range. If you add power to the mobile, yes it will transmit a bit further, but will not help it receive any better. There are three things that improve or degrade transmit and receive equally. Antenna height, antenna design/performance, coaxial cable performance. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Suggestions. 1) Before making any changes to the radio, Using the software, read from the radio, save, archive and protect from loss the original configuration. This is for your protection unless you do somehow bugger things up down the line. 2) Start you programming always by use a copy of the original configuration read from the radio. 3) Leave the original 30 channels in the radio, exactly as they were at the time of purchase. This is just for consistency and compatibility between radios. 4) Add your ‘custom’ channels to the end of the list. You can put them in any order you choose, but put them in an order that is meaningful and useful to you. I suggest putting them in the next unused “channel group” on your radio. Doing so will make it easy for you to hop to them quickly using a function key. Depending upon where you place them, you may be able to scan just your repeater channels and not everything else if you do not want to. In my case, I have the original channels programmed per the factory. Then, because I want the ability to program new repeater channels on the fly when traveling, and what all like-frequency repeaters together, I have 8 pre-configured memories in place for each of the 8 repeater pairs (64 total). They are all labelled with a number (550,575,600,625,650,675,700,725) to aligns with the frequency they operate on. They are all order. They all start out generic (without CTCSS/DCS codes) and have have a letter suffix (e.g. 700-A, 700-D, etc.). Those that get used for specific repeaters, I alter the name (e.g. 700-CNCY). For me it puts all of my 550 repeaters together, my 700 repeaters together, etc.. This pattern has worked beautifully for my needs. All of my GRMS radios, mobile, base, HT are configured this same way. While my methodology is overkill for some, it has proven to be a huge time and effort saver over the last 1-1/2 years. Good luck, and enjoy your radio. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Glad to hear your results. The expectations have now been set. Keep in mind now that no matter how much power you add to your base that it will not improve how well you hear on the base. In other words the added power will help your HT radios out in the woods to hear your base a little better, but it will not help your base hear them any better. Thanks for the update. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Marc, I took some power-output measurements and associated photos of a direct competitor of the MXT500. The configuration consists of 3-feet RG-58 between radio and power meter and 50-ohm dummy load connected directly to the meter output. The Fluke shows the voltage of the power supply feeding the radio. Both measurements represent settled voltage and power at end of 5-seconds of Tx. As you can see, power ranged from 45w-47w. i would expect Midland to meet or exceed these. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

I have heard it many times myself now. I can see why people listening to my radio complain about it. The issue occurs mostly at the beginning of Tx, but like you it does occur seemingly random during Tx as well. It definitely sounds like an internally maladjusted AGC in the outbound audio path of the radio. Adjustments for that are not accessible to the consumer, so there appears no chance of tuning it out. I expect I will be replacing the radio with another brand/model when something better comes along, as I expect zero support on the issue from Wouxun. Please let me know if your new radio has the issue as well. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Good Day Muzic2Me. There really are too many variables give you a definitive answer. There are simple objective formulas to use to estimate your range if you assume you live in outer space, if you are live on a boat on a calm ocean, or if you live on an earth that is as smooth, uniform and as free of obstacles as a ball. All of these formulas give you maximum theoretical range. Real world will be substantially less. As I am sure you have seen the absurd claims of Midland et al of 37 miles for a pair of 2-5 watt HT. Yes, in outer space. But in the real world, more typically 1/2 to 2 miles. Your topography and other natural and man-made obstructions between your antennas will dramatically limit your range well below the theoretical. Your real-world range, around your home, will be different from everyone else. Here is a website you can use, free of charge, to estimate your coverage. It factors for topography and uses statistics to help factor for probable ground cover. I and others I have heard from that have used it have found it to be pretty good, so long as it is given accurate radio system performance values as inputs. It will be better than any of us can estimate for you. http://ve2dbe.com For me, here is some of my experience. The shortest distance I have ever experienced outdoors using (2) 5-watt HTs has been 1/2 mile. The greatest distance ever experienced has been 2-1/2 to 3 miles (if I recall correctly). I can use a (5) HT with high-performance outdoor antenna at 56’ AGL and communicate over one particular repeater 50 miles away (its antenna is 900’ in the air), but I cannot get into some repeaters using a 50 watt radio as close as 8-12 miles away. If using 50-watt radios (base and mobile) I can communicate at times upwards of 8 miles in certain directions, less in others, while I can reliably communicate base to HT out to at least 1-1/2 miles in all directions but only out to 3 miles or so in others. The biggest gift you can give yourself is antenna height. You will read that over and over as you go on your radio journey. Good luck, and be sure to share your real-world experiences when you are done.

Agreed. Yep, that is the lame definition in part 95. It is nearly equivalent to Webster giving the official definition of ‘House’ as ‘a House.“. Somewhere else in the FCC legal language I have to believe lives a better definition or legal precedent-setting example. Absent further definition, it could be said that five HT used solely for communication between each other are ‘fixed’ stations, as are two cups and a string carried by kids walking down the street. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

You ask a valid question that is not easily found in the FCC documents GMRS folks are familiar with. I have never been able to read its full official definition in the FCC’s own language to this day, except that which they put in the part 95 rules. I have tried extensively to find more. Here is the understanding that I have developed over nearly 20 years. A “fixed” station is a permanently installed station that communicates solely with another permanently installed “fixed” station. Fixed stations never communication with base, mobile, or HT stations which are normally used to communicate with other like stations. Then you may ask, what is heck is left? Well, in effect one can think of them almost like radio links that are used to communicate between two repeater towers, perhaps for control purposes, or perhaps for point-to-point repeater linking using highly directional antennas (imagine complementary aimed microwave dishes). I suspect there may be another scenario or two where it would be applicable also. I understand that there is limited use of, and need for, “Fixed” stations in GMRS, but the language remains because of it’s historical and legacy significance, and perhaps an edge case need. If anyone reading this has a link to an official FCC document or legal precedent that further clarifies this, perhaps from another service, I and others would be eternally grateful. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Papatree, I took some S21 measurements of the inline SWR arrangement I am using in my shack that you might find helpful. Scenario consists of a 3-Foot RG-58 cable with PL-259 on each end, an SW-102 meter, and PL-259 to BNC adapter. Insertion loss of the whole assembly for GMRS = 1dB. First image is the test configuration. 2nd image represents insertion loss from 460-470MHz. Third image represents insertion loss from 50MHz to 900MHz. As you can see, insertion loss is less that 1dB at and below GMRS frequencies, but gets a bit wonky over 500MHz. Thought you might appreciate seeing this. Yeh, the pictures are a little dark, but you get the picture.

I have already shared my opinion and will offer none further. I do not have a dog in the hunt for what is or what becomes the official channel, if any. I will share what I currently do however. When I am traveling around town (mine or other(s) that I regularly frequent) my radio is scanning only for activity on known repeaters. Why? Because that is the dominate source of activity and I like having the ability to communicate back through those repeaters if the need arises. Now, when I outside the coverage range of these towns, I switch to scanning for activity on all FRS/GMRS frequencies using CSQ. If there is active communications along my route, odds are good I will here it. So far there is has been some, but minimal, travel-related radio traffic being heard, but no pattern discerned. Off course if what I hear is repeater traffic or otherwise uses CTCSS I cannot easily engage without tone scanning or stopping to fiddle with the radio. When caravanning, I start by using a frequency that has no activity. If activity emerges that I or others are not interested in listening too, we will either switch frequencies or enable CTCSS. It has happened a couple of times only. If I have a TDR radio in the vehicle, I generally leave one receiver tuned to the caravan channel and scan on the other, but only for as long as its activity does not interfere with internal conversations or other caravan communication activity. Everyone of us can come up with our preferred channel/frequency and why. In the end however, it will be whatever the people decide it to be…for them. If there is a substantial ground-swell of travel related activity on some particular frequency in an area, then so be it, that will be the one that folks in that area gravitate towards. Remember this phrase? “We the people…” Remember, we are not talking about making a law or rule that people must follow. Folks here are offering opinions, and hopefully making recommendations and well-informed decisions based on what they currently know. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM