WRKC935

And the other issue is personalities and 'friends and not so much / enemies' on a forum.  Keeping personal feelings out of it can be difficult.  You and I have had a couple 'issues' of course.  Not a big secret.  If either of us had been a moderator with ban hammer abilities, the other one of us would have been gone.  At least for a minute until the board owner got involved and unbanned whoever, and probably removed the other from being a moderator.  And that would have been a detriment to the board if it would have happened to either of us.    We both have made significant contributions to the 'shared knowledge' on here.
 

And I see that as being completely reasonable.  And I honestly expect it to happen here at some point with the mygmrs.com network, and in truth it seems that it already has to a degree.
Now my understanding is that mygmrs.com is repeaters only.  And possibly a leaning to high profile repeaters being strongly preferred.  And I would hope that there is some level of over site that keeps three guys on the same cul te sac from all putting up linked repeaters. 
Allowing every swinging dick in the sound of your voice to connect whatever to the system ruins the system.  Simplex nodes, and I believe they had allowed not only Zello but soft phone connections to the system and that REALLY turns into a mess.  I know that there are a couple groups that put Zello on their wide area networks as a tool for repeater owners to use on an as needed basis.  But those should never be for everyone to abandon their radio and just use Zello.  I also believe they were allowing digital ham radio 'hot spots' on the network which again has little to no coverage footprint outside someones house. 
He was doing all that by himself.  Which is a huge undertaking.  And obviously was overwhelming for him as time went on.  Someone also mentioned it was pretty thankless, and yes, I tend to agree that you don't get much outside help with this sort of stuff.  But if it's broke, everyone is quick to bitch about their FREE access to the service isn't working and they what it fixed immediately. 
 
Couple things I think we need for this system.  Of course this is strictly my opinion but I am gonna throw it out there.
First is documents on how to add a blacklist to a node.  Now that everything is immediately available for download and getting a node number is simple as clicking a link, I think we are going to need that ability as the system grows.  Knowing that the underlying system is All Star Link, there should be a document somewhere explaining how to do it but I haven't looked.  People should have the ability to block other nodes from connecting to them if they desire to do so.  It does exist right now, but there isn't specific instructions for that available. 
Guess, that was only one thing.... I guess the other would be adopt a fixed set of rules on what can be connected.  I don't know that there is documentation saying high profile repeaters only.  I don't know that there is a requirement that you can't link to a system that already has coverage in your area. I do know that one puts people into a spin, and rightly so.  There is ZERO sense in having coverage overlap of any great degree on the same system.  It's going to exist to some degree, but we shouldn't have the SAD HAM attitude of I want my call sign on a repeater too, and I want it linked to the same system that's 2 miles down the road simply because I can do it.  Right now, there isn't anything in writing to indicate that.  But I believe there needs to be.
 
 

And I see that as being completely reasonable.  And I honestly expect it to happen here at some point with the mygmrs.com network, and in truth it seems that it already has to a degree.
Now my understanding is that mygmrs.com is repeaters only.  And possibly a leaning to high profile repeaters being strongly preferred.  And I would hope that there is some level of over site that keeps three guys on the same cul te sac from all putting up linked repeaters. 
Allowing every swinging dick in the sound of your voice to connect whatever to the system ruins the system.  Simplex nodes, and I believe they had allowed not only Zello but soft phone connections to the system and that REALLY turns into a mess.  I know that there are a couple groups that put Zello on their wide area networks as a tool for repeater owners to use on an as needed basis.  But those should never be for everyone to abandon their radio and just use Zello.  I also believe they were allowing digital ham radio 'hot spots' on the network which again has little to no coverage footprint outside someones house. 
He was doing all that by himself.  Which is a huge undertaking.  And obviously was overwhelming for him as time went on.  Someone also mentioned it was pretty thankless, and yes, I tend to agree that you don't get much outside help with this sort of stuff.  But if it's broke, everyone is quick to bitch about their FREE access to the service isn't working and they what it fixed immediately. 
 
Couple things I think we need for this system.  Of course this is strictly my opinion but I am gonna throw it out there.
First is documents on how to add a blacklist to a node.  Now that everything is immediately available for download and getting a node number is simple as clicking a link, I think we are going to need that ability as the system grows.  Knowing that the underlying system is All Star Link, there should be a document somewhere explaining how to do it but I haven't looked.  People should have the ability to block other nodes from connecting to them if they desire to do so.  It does exist right now, but there isn't specific instructions for that available. 
Guess, that was only one thing.... I guess the other would be adopt a fixed set of rules on what can be connected.  I don't know that there is documentation saying high profile repeaters only.  I don't know that there is a requirement that you can't link to a system that already has coverage in your area. I do know that one puts people into a spin, and rightly so.  There is ZERO sense in having coverage overlap of any great degree on the same system.  It's going to exist to some degree, but we shouldn't have the SAD HAM attitude of I want my call sign on a repeater too, and I want it linked to the same system that's 2 miles down the road simply because I can do it.  Right now, there isn't anything in writing to indicate that.  But I believe there needs to be.
 
 

I am not sure where he is, but it might be some state law mandating that. 
Hell, you can't pump your own gas in New Jersey.  Has to be a station employee and they are all Union.  But that would be my guess. 

Yep, nodes are a point of contention around here. Some feel that nodes are BAD... The bane of GMRS and the thing that will destroy the very fabric of the service.  They are not to be allowed, nor trusted.  They bring only hate and dismay to the masses. No one in their right mind would use a linked repeater because they use NODES to do the linking.  You really need to avoid them at all costs.  Beware the Node.  They are run by communist sympathizers that are out to overthrow the government, and tax the very air you breathe. 
Or, you can realize that linked repeater systems are a good way to expand your circle of acquaintances.  If a system is large, the chances of not finding someone to chat with on a ride home, even in the middle of the night are pretty slim.  And since when do you need to keep the people you converse with within a 20 mile radius of your home?  

Yeah, I suppose a factual explanation is in order.
SO a NODE is actually a small computer (typically a Raspberry Pi) that is using an IP (Internet Protocol) based PBX (Private Branch Exchange) or telephone system (think similar to a business phone system connected on a network). 
The software uses the Internet to create 'conference bridges' more or less to link the computers together so they can carry transmit and receive audio and PTT telemetry to the other nodes that are connected.   A vast part of the nodes are a single PBX (stand alone phone system) with a single extension (the repeater connected to it) to join the conference bridges.  Now you can technically support multiple extensions on a PBX.  These can be other repeaters, or they can be SIP soft phones like Zoiper (what I use) or an actual IP telephone and those can be bridges as well.  If you are using a SIP interface, of course there is no PTT button on either the soft phone or an IP desk set so you have to use dial buttons for the keying. 
Anyone with Google can find out this will work.  I am not going to go into how it works, nor will I go into how to do it (the soft phone / IP phone thing.  I will say that it's not supported on the mygmrs.com system and messing with someone's nodes is also a big no no so don't be trying to experiment on this system. 
Although simplex nodes are possible, I don't know that is supported on here either.  But I am NOT the person to ask about that.  There are others here that can comment if they choose to. 
The previous answer was in response to the fact that there are a number of folks that don't like linking.  And there is much debate on if it's really even legal according to the FCC regulations.  To the point I had a connected repeater on the system and took it down because of the continued questions about the legality of it.  So, if you want to play in that arena, do so with your eyes wide open and understanding that questions exist about doing it.
 
I didn't want to get too deep in the weeds on how this all works.  I think this should be a reasonable explanation to give you an understanding of the underlying technology in play. 
 

Yeah, I suppose a factual explanation is in order.
SO a NODE is actually a small computer (typically a Raspberry Pi) that is using an IP (Internet Protocol) based PBX (Private Branch Exchange) or telephone system (think similar to a business phone system connected on a network). 
The software uses the Internet to create 'conference bridges' more or less to link the computers together so they can carry transmit and receive audio and PTT telemetry to the other nodes that are connected.   A vast part of the nodes are a single PBX (stand alone phone system) with a single extension (the repeater connected to it) to join the conference bridges.  Now you can technically support multiple extensions on a PBX.  These can be other repeaters, or they can be SIP soft phones like Zoiper (what I use) or an actual IP telephone and those can be bridges as well.  If you are using a SIP interface, of course there is no PTT button on either the soft phone or an IP desk set so you have to use dial buttons for the keying. 
Anyone with Google can find out this will work.  I am not going to go into how it works, nor will I go into how to do it (the soft phone / IP phone thing.  I will say that it's not supported on the mygmrs.com system and messing with someone's nodes is also a big no no so don't be trying to experiment on this system. 
Although simplex nodes are possible, I don't know that is supported on here either.  But I am NOT the person to ask about that.  There are others here that can comment if they choose to. 
The previous answer was in response to the fact that there are a number of folks that don't like linking.  And there is much debate on if it's really even legal according to the FCC regulations.  To the point I had a connected repeater on the system and took it down because of the continued questions about the legality of it.  So, if you want to play in that arena, do so with your eyes wide open and understanding that questions exist about doing it.
 
I didn't want to get too deep in the weeds on how this all works.  I think this should be a reasonable explanation to give you an understanding of the underlying technology in play. 
 

Yep, nodes are a point of contention around here. Some feel that nodes are BAD... The bane of GMRS and the thing that will destroy the very fabric of the service.  They are not to be allowed, nor trusted.  They bring only hate and dismay to the masses. No one in their right mind would use a linked repeater because they use NODES to do the linking.  You really need to avoid them at all costs.  Beware the Node.  They are run by communist sympathizers that are out to overthrow the government, and tax the very air you breathe. 
Or, you can realize that linked repeater systems are a good way to expand your circle of acquaintances.  If a system is large, the chances of not finding someone to chat with on a ride home, even in the middle of the night are pretty slim.  And since when do you need to keep the people you converse with within a 20 mile radius of your home?  

Yep, nodes are a point of contention around here. Some feel that nodes are BAD... The bane of GMRS and the thing that will destroy the very fabric of the service.  They are not to be allowed, nor trusted.  They bring only hate and dismay to the masses. No one in their right mind would use a linked repeater because they use NODES to do the linking.  You really need to avoid them at all costs.  Beware the Node.  They are run by communist sympathizers that are out to overthrow the government, and tax the very air you breathe. 
Or, you can realize that linked repeater systems are a good way to expand your circle of acquaintances.  If a system is large, the chances of not finding someone to chat with on a ride home, even in the middle of the night are pretty slim.  And since when do you need to keep the people you converse with within a 20 mile radius of your home?  

I am thinking we just talked about this.  And I was right.
 
Go give that a read and it will answer your question.
 

You are going to need to research the PL / DPL codes that the 'subchannels' have assigned to them. 
Obviously it's going to be using the assigned frequencies for the channels, so the only 'sub' to it is PL tones for transmit and receive.
 

I am thinking we just talked about this.  And I was right.
 
Go give that a read and it will answer your question.
 

I am thinking we just talked about this.  And I was right.
 
Go give that a read and it will answer your question.
 

You are going to need to research the PL / DPL codes that the 'subchannels' have assigned to them. 
Obviously it's going to be using the assigned frequencies for the channels, so the only 'sub' to it is PL tones for transmit and receive.
 

Well, because I wasn't comfortable with bootlegging.
Matt (the guy that owns the tower) had his license for several years.  We were using GMRS both on a repeater and simplex for tower operations.  He would be up the tower and we used radio's so we didn't have to holler up and down the tower.  I didn't feel comfortable about it so we were gonna switch to Itinerant's.  He told me to just get a license, but I didn't really want to spend the $70 at the time.  So I get an email from Paypal that I had a deposit from him for $70.  So I got my license.
Then I got nuts.  We put up the dual feed DB420 and connected it to the two 4 port transmit combiners and I put up the 675 and then found out about linking and put up the 600.  Matt already had the 725 on the air, but it was running on a GR1225 repeater, so I put it on a 40 watt MTR2000.  Then I put the 442.775 on the air on another MTR2000.  So I have 3 UHF repeaters that went on the air in the course of a month. 
But if Matt hadn't sent me the money for the license, I may not have ever bothered.  But I am glad he did at this point.
 

Wait.. What??? polite manner?  You some kind of kinder gentler leftist that believes words are violence or some stupid crap like that?  If someone deserves to be told to F OFF you look them in the eye like a man and tell them to F OFF.  There is no polite at that point.  If that's what they have coming, that's what they get.  You don't try to be polite.  You don't try to sugar coat it or attempt to spare their feelings.  At the point that F OFF is appropriate, that's what they get.  
Speaking of F OFF,
You sit here going on over and over on the forum that HOSTS the linking servers for the ROGUE REPEATERS and continue to pop off at the mouth about how these ROGUE REPEATERS are the bane of GMRS and will no doubt destroy the very fabric of the GMRS service, and anything else related to Part 95. 
You don't like the idea of linking repeaters.  We get it.  All too well. 
THE HORSE IS DEAD.... leave it be already. 

Now the 501C3 status is an interesting situation with tower owners. 
Because of the non-profit status, the tower owners can DONATE the tower space for an agreed to amount that is in line with standard rates and take that as a write off on their tax liabilities.  I don't know that any of them actually do that, but there is no reason they couldn't do it other than the paperwork involved. 
 

Huh?  American Tower, Crown Castle and the others give discounts for ham??? When did that start?  I know of a couple sites that they bought that the previous owners had extended low rent leases for hams that carried over.  But at least in once case, when that lease finally expired, they went to full rent of over 1K a month and then tried to force the repeater owner to have their antenna removed by one of their 'approved' tower contractors at a cost of over 5 grand.  They ended up abandoning the antenna system
 
 

And the risk aversion part is why I took my linked repeater down. 
If you get a notice from a federal agency about something you are doing, you are going to need a specialized federal lawyer that has experience with whatever you are being accused of.  The Dewey, Cheatum and How ambulance chasers on the local TV ad's that have "I SUE4U' on the license plates of their Mercedes of Cadillac are NOT even going to talk to you about your legal issues with a federal agency.  And their "I don't get paid unless YOU get paid" pricing doesn't apply to specialized federal attorneys either.  It's gonna take a couple grand just to find out how screwed you are, if that is the case.  Getting into court and fighting something coming from the federal government in a federal courtroom is gonna easily exceed 10 grand.  And the government knows this and uses it against you to just pay their fine and cease doing whatever it is they don't like. 

Yes, he plainly stated this is what a real FCC violation letter looks like.  And the reason you can't be shown the one for the repeater shutdown in NY is because there isn't one.

And the risk aversion part is why I took my linked repeater down. 
If you get a notice from a federal agency about something you are doing, you are going to need a specialized federal lawyer that has experience with whatever you are being accused of.  The Dewey, Cheatum and How ambulance chasers on the local TV ad's that have "I SUE4U' on the license plates of their Mercedes of Cadillac are NOT even going to talk to you about your legal issues with a federal agency.  And their "I don't get paid unless YOU get paid" pricing doesn't apply to specialized federal attorneys either.  It's gonna take a couple grand just to find out how screwed you are, if that is the case.  Getting into court and fighting something coming from the federal government in a federal courtroom is gonna easily exceed 10 grand.  And the government knows this and uses it against you to just pay their fine and cease doing whatever it is they don't like. 

I honestly wish they would speak up.  It would clear up the confusion a LOT.
 

@LeoG I have participated in enough court cases to know that the intent of the law/rule means nothing to a judge.  Only what is written.  I have no choice but to interpret the rules as written with the provided definitions. 
Not to mention that linked repeaters with voice communications have been around long before the changes in 2017 and there have been exactly zero actions against anyone.... not one single person in a decade or more, with hundreds of linked repeaters and 10's of thousands of users nationwide in that same time frame.  Not one single letter, accusation, fine, nothing.  And it's not like its a secret.  Leads me to think I may be right.
Words have meaning.  I agree it can be messy, but if they meant something else, they need to amend the rules and issue a clarification, which they seem wholly uninterested in.  FCC enforcement agents are on this site... they are here and reading this stuff and say nothing.  Though, I'm sure they get a good laugh from time to time.

Wait.. What??? polite manner?  You some kind of kinder gentler leftist that believes words are violence or some stupid crap like that?  If someone deserves to be told to F OFF you look them in the eye like a man and tell them to F OFF.  There is no polite at that point.  If that's what they have coming, that's what they get.  You don't try to be polite.  You don't try to sugar coat it or attempt to spare their feelings.  At the point that F OFF is appropriate, that's what they get.  
Speaking of F OFF,
You sit here going on over and over on the forum that HOSTS the linking servers for the ROGUE REPEATERS and continue to pop off at the mouth about how these ROGUE REPEATERS are the bane of GMRS and will no doubt destroy the very fabric of the GMRS service, and anything else related to Part 95. 
You don't like the idea of linking repeaters.  We get it.  All too well. 
THE HORSE IS DEAD.... leave it be already. 

Wait.. What??? polite manner?  You some kind of kinder gentler leftist that believes words are violence or some stupid crap like that?  If someone deserves to be told to F OFF you look them in the eye like a man and tell them to F OFF.  There is no polite at that point.  If that's what they have coming, that's what they get.  You don't try to be polite.  You don't try to sugar coat it or attempt to spare their feelings.  At the point that F OFF is appropriate, that's what they get.  
Speaking of F OFF,
You sit here going on over and over on the forum that HOSTS the linking servers for the ROGUE REPEATERS and continue to pop off at the mouth about how these ROGUE REPEATERS are the bane of GMRS and will no doubt destroy the very fabric of the GMRS service, and anything else related to Part 95. 
You don't like the idea of linking repeaters.  We get it.  All too well. 
THE HORSE IS DEAD.... leave it be already.