OldRadioGuy

Hi Jack I did later see your post saving Mozart's bricked radio. I bet he was glad to get that. I have a PC so can just use the safer Wouxun software to program. I also see Michael's post that there is a new 905G coming with a power setting in the menus at least. I always have the best timing - having bought my 805G's like 3 weeks ago. I hope they still offer a firmware update allowing a power select on the 805G. Maybe I'll just keep using chans 8-14 for low power while I think about it. Vince

I sent an email to Buy Two Way Radios and they thought it would be a nice idea if they could get Wouxun to allow the a/b button or red button to serve as power level select. Maybe in the next firmware update. I guess they are going to mention it to Wouxun. So we'll see. Hey, it's worth a shot. Vince

I think your problem is mostly terrain. I have a pair of Wouxun 805G's and I can hit the repeater OK 12-15 miles away on the factory antenna and pretty darned clean with my Nagoya 771G antenna or the Smiley super stick. The repeater and I are both on slightly elevated ground. If I walk down the hill I can still trigger it but I'm not intelligible. So it doesn't take much at 460MHz. I do not see why a better brand radio with the same transmit power would have dramatically better range to the same repeater. Receivers have more latitude in quality than transmitters. So I could understand having better sensitivity on a better radio. Here's something to be cautious of. Could any of the radios involved be getting desensitized by an in band signal nearby? If I try to talk to my wife downstairs using the repeater she can not hear me at all. But the guy across town on the repeater hears me just fine and she hears him too. Her radio is getting clobbered by mine as I am transmitting to the repeater from so close by. This is pretty normal and only exceptional radios would be immune to it. One more minor point. dBi gain is "gain over isotropic" which is pretty unrealistic. There are no isotropic antennas. An isotropic antenna radiates in all directions. So it's easy to make an antenna look better by spec-ing dBi. Gain over dipole is about 2 dB less for the same antenna and a more realistic number. I doubt if this is enough to cause your problem though. Just some thoughts. Vince

Here's a simple explanation. Longer antennas (properly designed of course) focus your signal so it's concentrated towards the earth's surface. We're not talking to airplanes or other planets so why waste signal up there. We want to focus our signal at ground level (or horizon) which is where our contacts are. The gain of the antenna tells you how much it concentrates your signal where we want it.... in this case the horizon. So gain (length) and height both help. You may also need to consider the loss in your coax. You may want to run heavier and lower loss coax for the longer run then adapt to something more flexible for the last 10' or so. I would try and keep coax loss down around 2dB or less if you can. Less than 1dB would be nice. Vince

DON'T USE CHIRP for the 805G. Use only the Wouxun software. There was just a posting on one of these forums that I guy completely "bricked" his radio by using Chirp. Somehow it loaded some "bad" settings that were not recoverable even by re-loading the radio from the code-plug. I think the post was in the tech section just a day or two ago. Vince

I would not consider a corner reflector because this is not a base antenna for me. It's a portable "take down" antenna that fits in a small bag. As I remember, the gain of the 7 element Arrow is 13dB which is 20X. So makes a 5W radio look like about 100W. Not bad. Vince

I wish it had that but it doesn't. Been through the manual a dozen times hoping I just missed it. Only available through PC programming. Vince

In order to save battery it can be nice to start out with low power then switch to 5W when things get noisy. I don't think there is a way to to this "on the fly" with an 805G except for changing channels between hi and low power band segments (like 6 and 9). One problem is that if things get bad you have to way to contact the other party and have them switch to channel 6 (or whatever) for higher power. You're stuck on low power. So you have to stay on top of things of just go hi power whenever in doubt. The only way I know of to have a Low/Hi switch on a particular channel is to get the software and program the radio for two copies of each channel. So you'd have 1H, 1L, 2H, 2L... then you just change the "channel" to switch power from low to hi. Obviously this is cumbersome and you have to buy the programming cable etc. But it seems like it would do the job. Does anybody know a trick to program a button to switch between power levels? I've looked quite a bit and not found it. Sure would be nice though. Vince

If you are interested in more detail.... Your mobile radio only transmits or receives at any given time. It can use different freq for TX and RX so it is compatible with a repeater. Your radio never transmits and receives at the same time. That's the trick only a repeater system can do. It requires extreme filters to separate the TX and RX which are very close together. Think of two guys sending morse code at the same time using adjacent notes on a keyboard. You need an amazing filter to separate them. That's why repeater systems are very expensive. Ham guys can do a thing called Cross Band Repeater which is much easier. The signals are often at 440MHz and 145MHz. More like a tuba and piccolo sending morse code at the same time. So many radios are cabable of cross band repeat operation. But GMRS has only one band so no dice. I don't know if you could use a MURS radio and a GMRS. But all the users would need TWO radios also. Not very practical. OK, that was probably too much information. Vince

Since you don't have repeaters you may want to see about getting better antennas for your vehicles. I like the NMO connectors that you can permanently mount in the center of the roof. The antenna is easily removable or changeable. All of my Ham 70cm/440 antennas seem to match OK on my GMRS radio. So I just use my ham antennas for the car. The Ham guys have a few repeaters in your area in ID Falls and Iona, Roberts and Menan buttes. So maybe you'll want to try getting a ham license. I have GMRS because my wife is not a ham..... yet. Also fishing buddies etc. can use FRS. You just can't have too many radios. Vince

For this to work you would have to set the repeater radio to REVERSE the TX and RX frequencies. Ham radios all have this but I don't think GMRS radios generally do unless you program them through a computer. I don't see any advantage in using it this way because you'd still have big delays and no real way of knowing what's up. Using it simplex you'd maybe here some noise while the other person is talking before hearing the clear repeated message. So maybe you'd have a hint when the other party is talking an know to wait. I think for many situations a "human repeater" would actually work better. You get "Bob" to park up on a hill and when you can't get through to "Dave" directly you get "Bob" to relay to him. This way you have an "intelligent" simplex repeater that only repeats when necessary..... as long as Bob doesn't mind sitting up on the hill all day. Vince

You would NEVER use this on a repeater channel - EVER. Like I said, it is only for very unique situations in the middle of nowhere. Don't buy one unless you fully understand what it is - and more importantly - what it isn't. I totally agree with anyone that says it's clunky and confusing to many. It's a cool trick but only for very well informed users. VK

I have an Arrow portable "take down" beam antenna intended for 440MHx/70cm ham radio. I bought this antenna for my ham radios, before I had GMRS. Mine is the dual band version with a second set of elements for 2M but otherwise identical to the link below. http://www.arrowantennas.com/arrowii/440-7ii.html I finally got around to checking the SWR with my Wouxun 805G. It was very good - like darned near a perfect 1:1. My output power was actually a bit higher than with other antennas I've tested so somehow this antenna seems to "tickle" the 805G just right. Maybe the 805G is not a perfect 50 ohm output but this antenna is a near reciprocal match???? I'm just reporting the data. I did not talk to anyone on it but triggered the repeater 15 miles away. So I know it was transmitting. That repeater is hard to hit on a simple 1/4 wave antenna with 5W. My meter is an MFJ-842 set on the 10W range. I had about 6' of RG-58 coax in the path. Hams use RG-58 awith BNC connectors for short runs all the time on 440Mhz. Vince

You hunters may want to read my posting from this morning on Simplex repeaters in the "general" section of the forum. Vince

There is such a thing as a simplex repeater that is fairly cheap and simple, but...... This is not for socializing or that kind of thing like duplex repeaters. It is intended for emergency comms or remote areas like a hunting camp or something. Maybe you would use it for special event with a club - for essential or emergency communications only. https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=98 It is not clear to me whether the law specifically addresses these for use on GMRS. I did not find a definitive answer. Definitely check further if you are considering it seriously. This is a clever audio accessory that you can interface to just about any radio. People (who are licensed) use them on ham bands and you can use the same device with various radios as long as you get the right cable. You do not use a "repeater channel" with split frequency operation... there is no offset. It all happens on the same frequency. You use a normal simplex channel. You interface this to a radio that you place on high ground in your area of operation. Maybe you park a vehicle equipped with it on a hill above the area you are hunting. The "repeater" radio will repeat every message that it hears - delayed in time. So you will hear yourself on "the repeater" after you are done talking. If you are within "direct" range of another talker you will hear him twice - once direct and once on the repeater. Obviously this is a rather "clunky" (but clever) system intended for essential communications in remote areas. It is of very limited use but for certain situations it could be real a life saver. Of course, do not even consider buying one of these unless you FULLY understand exactly how it is used. Also, of course, you would need to be sure they are completely legal for GMRS. I did not find a clear answer. Even so, I would only consider using it "in the middle of nowhere" for special situations like hunting camps. So, do not go and buy one of these and put it up at home thinking your are going to have a "real" repeater for hanging out with your friends. That's not what it is. It's just a curiosity for most of us. I think it's "wicked" clever.... but I'm probably not going to buy one. Vince

I don't know much about this BUT our local ham repeaters system is heavily linked. Maybe you can get some good info on the technical page of their website below. The system works very well and covers almost half of Washington state. srgclub.org

This is not AM. It's FM and the "Capture Effect" will make one signal completely dominate unless they are very nearly equal. Anything more than a few dB will do the trick and you will not be interfered with by the other signal. In my example there is probably 20-40dB difference. that would even work with AM. Vince

Here's a good illustration. Let's say everyone in my example is using an FRS radio so similar power levels. Me and Bob are on the golf course only several hundred feet apart using one PL tone. Down the road is a garden center using FRS radios and a different PL but same channel. This will behave just like we are on different channels. When I'm talking to Bob the garden center's signals are well below mine and Bob will hear me even when they are talking at the same time. The reciprocal is also true. The garden center people are close to each other and their signals will dominate withing their group. So in this scenario PL tones work just the way we'd like them to. It will be just like we are on different channels. But this is probably not a real common situation. That's my point. Vince

I don't understand all of your comments but let's do the math. If the signals within my "group" are all 10db above the people outside my group (due to physical separation) we could walk within our groups at the same time without interference. So in this scenario the "virtual channels" do work. You could have a distant signal that is not so much intelligible as bothersome. But my whole point is that this situation is rather rare in my world. Also, your "privacy code" does not ensure any privacy for you. Any radio with PL tones off will hear everything you say. So it is maybe a false sense of privacy... if that's a thing. I don't see how PL tones affect manners or protocol on the radio though. I'm not telling anyone what to do. Just pointing out the limitations of PL tones. Vince

PL tones only work when you are far from the interference or other radio traffic and relatively close to your contact. This rarely happens in my world but maybe does happen in urban areas. When the PL tone is off you will hear everything on a channel including people with PL enabled. I want to know when a channel is in use because I can probably change to one that's not in use. So we almost never us PL tones. It is a myth that PL tones can effectively create more channels. This only works when you are in well separated "clusters" with members of each cluster relatively concentrated in a smaller area. So all of "our" signals are strong among our group and "their" signals are weak. I guess the other situation is where use is very infrequent so the odds of "doubling" are near zero. Some other responders have also said this - in different ways. Vince

Maybe what you are looking for is this. The web address is below (it is not a .com or .org or anything.) GMRS.network They have some videos about it on youtube as well. It's called the gmrs linked network. This uses a GMRS radio to connect to your computer then the internet does the rest. I guess it's sort of a like a chat room connected by radios on each end. I'm not sure if there are several networks or what. Check it out and see if it is what you need. Vince

This is probably not a good test. Your transmitter is too close to the test receiver which is desensitizing your wife's RX. This is a common problem and the reason a repeater needs a duplexer to work. The huge nearby in-band signal makes the receiver turn its gain way down. Of course the repeater signal is much weaker so will not be heard. You really need to get your TX a couple hundred yards, (or better yet, a mile) from your test RX. I did this same thing with a 5W radio and my wife could not hear me at all through the repeater. But I got a reply from a guy 10 miles away who could hear me fine. My wife downstairs could hear the other guy fine but her radio "plugged its ears" whenever I was transmitting. Vince

Usually you see Speech Compressors (the TX half of a compander) with SSB where it will actually increase your average TX power. It's a bit like an AGC but actually a non-linear form of it. The idea is too level things out so you can use higher gain without over modulating. With FM the benefit may not be as clear cut because carrier power is fixed. It will only increase your average modulation... which probably helps some but maybe not a lot. I never had an FM radio that has it. It does make you sound a bit nasal or something but with SSB that's not a big deal. SSB audio is often a little funky anyway. So nobody notices too much. Vince

You might try an Arrow beam made for the 70cm/440 ham band. They make some very high gain antennas. I have the moon bounce portable beam that I bought for my 2m/440 ham rig. You may find other models are better suited to your situation. I'm sure there are other makes as well. I guess the main point is that there is a lot more available for Ham 440MHz than GMRS and the match is probably good enough or tunable. My 440 mag mount antennas match pretty good on GMRS but I'm not sure if the beams are more critical. So do a little home work first. Vince

I like your thinking of getting the radio closer to the antenna. It's the way to go if you can make it work. Low loss coax is expensive and phone wire is cheap. The remote head cable on my Yeasu ham mobile is just phone cable and I think this is typical. I would bet the signals are not very hi freq. and there would not be any issues with loss. So I would think you could easily get away with 50'... and maybe a lot more. The only way to know is to test it though. I think you can use standard phone wire and connectors. So I think you could probably buy or make the cable pretty easily. Even Home Depot sells the cable and connectors. Vince