crossbanding

[WQBU369]

12/22/13.....at around 7:30 pm , im hearing 462.700 crossbanding on 146.52,    when did this become legal ?

[Billy]

Never!

[WQBU369]

lol...yes i know that, just wanted to see how many other people hear it in area

[PastorGary]

Frank - Welcome to the Forum...

 

Any chance that it was intermod?   If a paging transmitter on 158.090 is on at the same time as a 462.700 transmitter, one of the intermod products is 146.52.   I know that this is a remote possibility, but I'm just checking.  I'd hate to think that an amateur operator would patch a GMRS service transmission to a ham frequency. That would be grounds for revocation and fines.

 

 

[WQBU369]

not intermod, someone playing games over here, heard going through a popular uhf system which the person some times links up to 146.52 , so it all was going through 462.700 but now has been disconnected, since this post.

[PastorGary]

Please keep us posted on that situation. It is not at all difficult to locate the violator these days.

 

Thanks.

[WQBU369]

ill post if i hear it again, ive been a member of this site for a long time but never posted, so im glad i got a response and im thinking people who have done this also see these post....lol...that was the plan, now im dealing with 20 year olds that are on the local fire dept  driving around town acting like cops on .700 freq, theyre killing..lol...anyways have a good holiday to all.

[captdan]

hey Frank - from my old neighborhood - lived in Oradell as a kid. I am sure the neighborhood has changed :-)

[WQNP678]

Frank - Welcome to the Forum...

 

Any chance that it was intermod?   If a paging transmitter on 158.090 is on at the same time as a 462.700 transmitter, one of the intermod products is 146.52.   I know that this is a remote possibility, but I'm just checking.  I'd hate to think that an amateur operator would patch a GMRS service transmission to a ham frequency. That would be grounds for revocation and fines.

Unless I'm wrong on this: GMRS Repeaters cannot be linked, but the rules regarding this may have changed.  However, GMRS falls under Part 95 of the FCC while the Amateur Radio side is under FCC Part 97.  

[WQNP678]

GMRS falls under FCC Part 95 Rules & Regulations & Amateur Radio falls under Part 97 of FCC Rules & Regulations.  You cannot even link a Amateur Radio UHF Repeater to GMRS.  Two different Frequency Spectrums and too far apart from each other.  The UHF (70 cm ) portion of the Amateur Band is 420-450Mhz. whereas the GMRS is in the 462 Mhz (+5 Mhz if repeater is used).  Don't quote me on this, but is downright logical.

 

Steve Marshall

[PastorGary]

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Let me add some regulation data here - this is an excerpt from 47CFR95.29.B

 

 

 

 

B - For a mobile station, control station, or fixed station operated in the duplex mode, the following 467 MHz channels may be used only to transmit communications through a repeater station and for remotely controlling a repeater station. The licensee of the GMRS system must select the transmitting channels or channel pairs (see §95.7(a) of this part) for the stations operated in the duplex mode, from the following 467 MHz channels:

467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000, 467.6250, 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000 and 467.7250.

 

 

 

The highlighted word "ONLY" is important because ONLY the +5 mhz offset frequency of a GMRS repeater pair can LEGALLY be used to activate the repeater. If a repeater is programmed in reverse, to accept the low channel out put of another repeater to trigger it +5 mhz up as the output frequency, that is illegal.  

 

Also, just an FYI - I have heard of some ham's in the early 1970's who linked repeaters output to input with a plus or minus 600khz offset as an experiment and were able to send a final signal out from the 9th repeater in a row some 450 miles away. Hearing 9 squelch tails at the end of the line must have been really something to hear.   I don't believe, however, that this practice is something that is done these days under Part 97 rules. I am not a ham, so perhaps one of our colleagues here who is, can clarify that.

 

 

P-G

[WQBU369]

hello all again , captdan it is a small world as they say, it was someone playing games that night for sure, i had a number of hams listen and key up as it was coming over gmrs, i was using multiple radios at once and the one scanner was a bearcat 996xt so it was showing me the pl tone of a local gmrs system, personally i dont care what people do as long it doesnt bother me or broadcast me on ham simplex freqs from gmrs or the other way around..lol...when im in the shack i monitor lot of stuff and gmrs is one as i do have a low power system up myself for about 10 years here , i use the bigger systems in area when needed, ok guys ill keep an eye out here and everyone have a happy new year.

[Unit61]

Unless I'm wrong on this: GMRS Repeaters cannot be linked, but the rules regarding this may have changed.  However, GMRS falls under Part 95 of the FCC while the Amateur Radio side is under FCC Part 97.  

I would just like to add my two cents on the GMRS Repeter linking. I have read over the Rules and Regs on Part 95 Subparts a, b, d, and J extensivly over the last 5 years including what they were when GMRS was still a Business Service. In all of my reading it states nowhere that GMRS repeater cannot be linked however most when peole here linking they amediatly think of Telephone line or RF connection to create the link. As Gary stated in his post only the +5 MHz offsets can be used to control a repeater/mobile relay station "by remote". The rules also state in §95.141   Interconnection prohibited. No station in a GMRS system may be interconnected to the public switched telephone network "except" as and in accordance with the requirements and restrictions applied to a "wireline control link" (see §95.127).

 

AND

 

§ 95.127

    Controlling a station from a remote point.

 

    (a) A station operator in a GMRS system may control the station from a remote point through a control link (a connection between the remote control point and the remotely controlled station). The control link must be either:

    (1) A wireline control link solely for purposes of transmitter control (see § 95.181(i)(13)); or

    (2) A radio control link.

    ( The remotely controlled station must not make unauthorized transmissions.

    © The station operator must perform the required duties (see § 95.173) when controlling the station from a remote point the same as when controlling it locally at the station point. Should the control link fail to function so that the station operator cannot perform the required duties, the remotely controlled station must not transmit.

    (d) The FCC does not consider a station in a GMRS system as being remotely controlled if the connection is a wireline or mechanical control link, and the station and its control point are both:

    (1) On the same vehicle; or

    (2) At the same street address, or within 152 meters (500 feet) of each other.

 

    (e) Any device used to establish a wireline control link which is attached to the public switched telephone network after April 1, 1976 must be registered with the FCC and must comply with the standards incorporated in a registration program to protect the public switched telephone network from harm (see part 68 of the FCC Rules).

[quarterwave]

"No station in a GMRS system may be interconnected to the public switched telephone network "except" as and in accordance with the requirements and restrictions applied to a "wireline control link" (see §95.127)."

 

Exactly - I have been trying to get people to understand that for a long time. A leased pair from your phone company for the purpose of remote use of a radio is NOT the same as connection to the PSTN. Connection to the PSTN would refer to an "interconnect" or the device commonly used in Ham and used to be more common on commercial systems to facilitate a radio to telephone call. (also in the ancient instance of using a telephone ((initiated)) connection to talk over the base radio)  PSTN means it goes through the phone switch....dial tone...termination, etc. Using a pair of copper that you own, or lease from anyone else....has nothing to do with prohibiting linking.  

[JohnE]

also known as a radio tie line, as opposed to a "phone patch"