Long Wire Antenna Question

[SeldomSeen]

I need to hang a Hy Power Off Center long wire antenna over my house. It's 135' long. My roof peak runs East and West. I want the antenna to be North/South for best East/West coverage. So I will have to mount the center piece to a mast at the peak. The peak is only 15' high. The mast will raise the antenna a bit. Will this proximity to the house negatively affect the antenna's reception? My house is a log home and there is virtually no metal above the ceiling.

[marcspaz]

Horrible idea.  The antenna needs to be at least 35 feet off the ground.  A log home will cause interference, almost as if the antenna is on the ground.  I wold guess you likely will not be very interested in the expense of building a sturdy 35 foot mast on the roof of the house, unless it's your only option.

 

I would also be very, very concerned about radiation exposure for people and other living animals in the house.  You could make yourself and others fatally ill.

 

Are you going to run it as a horizontal or inverted V?  For an inverted V, the ends of the wire should be about 10 feet off the ground and the ideal angle is 45 degrees off the center vertical axis, for a total of 90 degrees between the elements.

[SeldomSeen]

That's about what I expected. What I need is a descent antenna that I can use especially for CW in the 80, 40 and up HF bands. It doesn't have to be absolutely perfect. I'd be happy to just be able to reach other operators in the lower 48 States.

[marcspaz]

I usually don't push any particular brand of product, but if you don't have the room or means to safely have a dipole, I would consider looking at a Wolf River vertical antenna.  It has a radiation pattern that is safe for mounting on the roof, it can work very well on the ground, and if you keep it in arms length, you can adjust it for whatever frequencies you want to operate on.

 

I have talked to a few people around the country who are using them with a 100w and they seemed to be working fine.

 

https://www.wolfrivercoils.com/

[SeldomSeen]

That just seems too portable; too temporary. Wires spread out all over the the ground? I can't help but grin when I think about it. I don't think it justifies the purchase of a transceiver that costs twelve hundred dollars plus all of the other accessories. There just has to be a better solution. I just finished learning the Morse code today. It took exactly one week. I should be thrilled. But now, I'm up against another brick wall.

[marcspaz]

I know the feeling.  It is pretty satisfying when you finally get it working, though.

 

Good luck! I hope you get something going,

[berkinet]

Have you considered a random long wire and an antenna tuner?

[SeldomSeen]

berkinet es all:

 

I had hoped to get the radio shack in a box Yaesu FT-991A. It has a built-in antenna tuner but that alone may not be sufficiently adjustable for making the unit resonant with a random wire. Besides, the FT-991A with a poor antenna would be like having a fine big bass boat and powering it with a 6hp motor. I will now settle for a nice simple dual-band mobile, set it up as a base radio and just talk to the repeater crowd. HF will go on the back burner for awhile. Deborah (who always supports my crazy ideas) says I tried to do too much at one time as is my usual wont. Later I can maybe get a used IC-718 or similar and a Hustler 5BTV. In the meantime I will continue to study for the General at a leisurely pace and keep improving the Morse code.

 

Thank you all for your help. Stay healthy and most importantly, have fun.

[kidphc]

FT991a can tune 3:1, otherwise it will shut down. A good external tuner is something you are going to want for any antenna, just to protect the radio. This is irregardless of what radio you plan on using.

 

Personally, I have been looking at verticals. I need a portable style antenna because of the HOA. Most verticals are going to need radials, so you are going to bury wires or have them all over the lawn. Even certain portables can be permanent mounted. A Hustler 5BT/6BT are going to perform their best when on a mast or tower. Even a zero-five flagpole is going need to radials since it is essentially a 1/4 vertical stuffed inside of a flagpole (they suggested a remote ATU). The greyline flagpole (don't buy one) is suppose to be designed with no radials still is going to want a remote ATU. You should start seeing a trend. The idea of a fan dipole is to have 1/2 resonant antenna for each band with a common feed point. With endfeds you are going to want to do some matching then a tuner.

 

You have options though https://www.qsl.net/va3iul/Antenna/Wire%20Antennas%20for%20Ham%20Radio/Wire_antennas_for_ham_radio.htm . Get the aspirin out. There is always a mag loop, cons are cost and the bands, no 60m/80m unless you home brew. 

 

The other notes that should be made when DX most are going to be horizontally polarized versus vertical polarized antennas. Which will make them a bit deaf comparatively. Doesn't matter if you spend 20k on a radio, if the antenna system is no good you won't hear or worse you will have good ears but no one will hear you. The sucky thing about CW is it the lower part of the bands. So you have to measure for the longest antenna length given for that band.

 

I never understood the whole love for the G5RV, I can see a whole mess of designs that are better.

[SeldomSeen]

I read that the G5RV was developed during the vacuum tube era and doesn't work as well with solid-state transceivers. It's good to know that you can bury the Hustler radials. The HF antenna dilemma makes Joseph Heller's Catch 22 seem like a walk in the park. Given enough time I will come up with a viable solution. CW is anachronistic but I really like old things. In my dated paradigm CW is the crown jewel of amateur radio. 

[marcspaz]

You can bury all ground radials.  They work better under ground a couple/few inches.  It helps improve ground performance by increasing the radiation pattern (more surface area in direct contact with the earth) and it gets the leads away from lawn and turf surface care.  The biggest benefit is it reduces the noise floor from electricity and electronic devices nearby. 

[SeldomSeen]

It looks llike the 5BTV won't work for me. This if from the specs: Due to the short height of these antennas and the use of a resonator for 80 meters, the natural 80 meter bandwidth is narrow. The lower end of the 75/80m band which is where CW is designated, is not covered. Even the roof mounted (no extra radials) verticals I researched have the same problem.

[kidphc]

It looks llike the 5BTV won't work for me. This if from the specs: Due to the short height of these antennas and the use of a resonator for 80 meters, the natural 80 meter bandwidth is narrow. The lower end of the 75/80m band which is where CW is designated, is not covered. Even the roof mounted (no extra radials) verticals I researched have the same problem.

 

Hence, why everyone asks if Marc's house looks like a porcupine from all the antennas. Long wire Will solve a lot of problems. End feds lot of people run multiples to get resonance on multiple bands. Concentrate on the bands you will use most often, say 20m and 40m. For a tech worry about 15m,10m, 6m and 2m. You can always add antennas.

 

I was looking at the Dxcommander antennas, this one in particular. I could build one close to the price, I however I like, his ingenious way of mounting the multiple antennas and feeding them. Plus I would spend double the price designing the same pieces.

[SeldomSeen]

Have a look at this set up. It's temporary but putting it up and down would be a snap.  https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/mfj-1982mp-end-fed-antenna.705831/

[n4gix]

For my home use I have two 32' fiberglass (8x4' sections) that I've hung a G5RV-Junior (52' length). My lot is only 100' deep, so there's no way to use a full size G5RV darn it. But all things considered it works extremely well here in NW Indiana.

 

For field use I have two of the MFJ 8' tripods, and two 50' telescoping fiberglass masts, similar to what you showed with the compression clamps. I hang a full-sized G5RV on it. It works great!

 

I also have a Wolf River Coils TIA (Take It Along) for rapid deployment. The long telescoping antenna sucks wind though since the 3/8th" stud is only crimped in one place and it loosened up after a single use. As a result it wobbles and is loose electrically...

 

I also wasted a great deal of money on a Buddipole Deluxe which has not proven to be all that terrific an antenna despite all the good press it has received.

[zibbie]

you need to get the antenna at least 30 feet or better over the roof, if not, the roof will load down the antenna and off balance it, i had a similar problem when one leg of my 75 meter full wave loop passed over my house, once i rased that leg all problems went away, the house adds capatince to the antenna, which will also mess up ur vswr

[gman1971]

An X-29 with forward swept wings!! Man, nice choice... 

 

G.

 

you need to get the antenna at least 30 feet or better over the roof, if not, the roof will load down the antenna and off balance it, i had a similar problem when one leg of my 75 meter full wave loop passed over my house, once i rased that leg all problems went away, the house adds capatince to the antenna, which will also mess up ur vswr

[OldRadioGuy]

I have an icom 718 that is made to work with the AH4 random wire auto tuner and it works great.

Because the feed point is actually at the tuner it works very well.

You can use a variety of wire lengths or even a vertical element.

 

Might be something to consider.

It's not super cheap but it works very well and is very convenient.

Just push the button and you're tuned.

 

Vince