Using a mobile radio as a base station

[Savage]

After posting about how to do an install of a mobile (Midland MXT115) in a car I realized that I'm so new to this that I should wait to do any hole cutting and cable running in my car, particularly since I spend about 30 minutes every week in it now with covid era work from home, and setup the radio in my house.

 

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/2103-installationmounting-in-vehicle/

 

Some great information in the previous thread on the power supply, etc... and now I'm wondering about running antenna cable from the room to the roof, what antenna, etc. so am starting a new thread as suggested.

 

Here we go...

[Savage]

Here's a couple key pieces on this topic.

 

Power

 

 

Neither one. I would put that into this: https://www.trcelectronics.com/View/Mean-Well/ENP-180-12.shtml It's a true commercial power supply that should handle a 50W radio without straining,

 

Adapter to connect power to the Midland

 

If his is anything like mine, it came with a 12v plug already attached. However, 12v receptacles are pretty easy to source (the second is what I used, but paired with a powerpole connector for my power supply)

https://www.walmart.com/ip/12V-Cigarette-Lighter-Socket-Power-Outlet-Receptacle-for-Car-Boat-Marine-Motorcycle-Scooter-with-Wire-Fuse-DIY-Kit/212423496

https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GC018-Adapter-Socket-Terminal/dp/B00G8WLW2Y/

[WRAK968]

This is rather easy, Look for a way to route the wire from inside of the house to the outside (usually done through an eve or a vent) then what I did was mount the antenna to a vent pipe that stuck out of the roof. You could use zip ties as a temporary hold, or do what I did and buy 6" hose clamps from home depot. Thats rather easy.

 

As for the power supply, you want something that will supply at least 12-13VDC and 15-20 amps. It is recommended to use a radio power supply as it prevents noise from getting into your signal however I've had no issues with using a general PS.

[Savage]

This is rather easy, Look for a way to route the wire from inside of the house to the outside (usually done through an eve or a vent) then what I did was mount the antenna to a vent pipe that stuck out of the roof. You could use zip ties as a temporary hold, or do what I did and buy 6" hose clamps from home depot. Thats rather easy.

 

As for the power supply, you want something that will supply at least 12-13VDC and 15-20 amps. It is recommended to use a radio power supply as it prevents noise from getting into your signal however I've had no issues with using a general PS.

 

Thanks for the info.  Which general PS are you using?  

[WRAK968]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EWG6YT8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Savage]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EWG6YT8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I'm very much a power dummy... so I'd grab that PSU and (figure out where) attach this to it?  I'm wanting to keep the wiring intact on the Midland so I can still easily throw it in my car and use aux power.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00G8WLW2Y/?coliid=IG4PJT5HK4K7A&colid=3SGB1VHXDD1KT&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

[WRAK968]

You could do that, or buy a second power lead (I think they are $10 but dont hold me to it, I would need to research however I am about to head to work) Or direct wire (the power supply uses screw terminals) all are viable ways of doing it, just need to make sure you wire it correctly. Also note, you have mains voltage going into the same terminal. if you do not know how to wire 120VAC powerlines you may be better off letting a pro do it so you or anyone else doesnt get hurt.

[BoxCar]

Look at the data sheet on the Meanwell. It specifically states radio as a use so it has all the filtering needed. Pay attention to the maximum ripple and the stated output over temperature and input power range. You won't find a better one anywhere near that price range. (If some other supply has specs that match or come close, you can bet its a repackaged one.)

[Savage]

Look at the data sheet on the Meanwell. It specifically states radio as a use so it has all the filtering needed. Pay attention to the maximum ripple and the stated output over temperature and input power range. You won't find a better one anywhere near that price range. (If some other supply has specs that match or come close, you can bet its a repackaged one.)

 

All Greek to me but I went ahead and ordered it.  Now... an antenna and cable.  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... and of course another thread already has me wanting to try a Kenwood TK-8180 and I haven't even put power to my Midland.

 

I'm rationalizing though - the Midland could go in my wife's car. 

[wayoverthere]

I'm rationalizing though - the Midland could go in my wife's car.

Easily...and while it has its limitations, it's hard to beat for being ready to go out of the box.

[WRAK968]

All Greek to me but I went ahead and ordered it.  Now... an antenna and cable.  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... and of course another thread already has me wanting to try a Kenwood TK-8180 and I haven't even put power to my Midland.

 

I'm rationalizing though - the Midland could go in my wife's car. 

sounds like you caught the bug, quick hide the paypal codes and credit cards LOL

[Savage]

Alright - any advise on an antenna and cable for a base station?  The peak of my roof is almost right above the room I'll put the radio so I have an easy mounting point where I can screw into wood with a bracket and run the cable through the attic, out the vent to the antenna.

 

I'm not looking to break the bank on this - if I find myself addicted to radio I can always upgrade later plus I'll just be using the MXT115 for now (power supply will be here next week).

 

 

[wayoverthere]

My thought would be a 5/8 over 5/8 nmo mobile antenna with a right angle mount....this gives some gain, with the ability to be used for base or mobile, such as this:https://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/laird-technologies-bb4505cn-5691

 

For mount/cable, something like this may work, though getting the terminal and mount separately may be better to run better/longer cable, If the premade lengths aren't enough. https://www.amazon.com/Bracket-Fender-PL-259-Connector-RG-58U/dp/B072XB5H4H/ (I searched "nmo mount", and all the options I mention are on the first page of results)

[Savage]

My thought would be a 5/8 over 5/8 nmo mobile antenna with a right angle mount....this gives some gain, with the ability to be used for base or mobile, such as this:https://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/laird-technologies-bb4505cn-5691

 

For mount/cable, something like this may work, though getting the terminal and mount separately may be better to run better/longer cable, If the premade lengths aren't enough. https://www.amazon.com/Bracket-Fender-PL-259-Connector-RG-58U/dp/B072XB5H4H/ (I searched "nmo mount", and all the options I mention are on the first page of results)

 

That would certainly be easy to install.  

 

would you recommend that over these?  Keeping in mind I know nothing of antennas, they just seem... bigger.

https://shop.mygmrs.com/collections/antennas/products/retevis-ma02-vhf-uhf-omnidirectional-fiberglass-base-station-antenna

https://shop.mygmrs.com/collections/antennas/products/retevis-ma01-uhf-omnidirectional-base-station-antenna

https://shop.mygmrs.com/collections/antennas/products/tram-1486-uhf-fiberglass-base-antenna

[wayoverthere]

That would certainly be easy to install.

 

would you recommend that over these? Keeping in mind I know nothing of antennas, they just seem... bigger.

https://shop.mygmrs.com/collections/antennas/products/retevis-ma02-vhf-uhf-omnidirectional-fiberglass-base-station-antenna

https://shop.mygmrs.com/collections/antennas/products/retevis-ma01-uhf-omnidirectional-base-station-antenna

https://shop.mygmrs.com/collections/antennas/products/tram-1486-uhf-fiberglass-base-antenna

Those are definitely bigger and likely better, honestly. The main trade-off is versatility, as they're dedicated base antennas, while what I posted is really a mobile that adapts well to a base use too.

 

If you can go with a dedicated base antenna and don't need the option of using it as a mobile too, I absolutely would. (I've been eyeing that Tram for a bit myself)

[Savage]

Those are definitely bigger and likely better, honestly. The main trade-off is versatility, as they're dedicated base antennas, while what I posted is really a mobile that adapts well to a base use too.

 

If you can go with a dedicated base antenna and don't need the option of using it as a mobile too, I absolutely would. (I've been eyeing that team for a bit myself)

Admittedly, I was hoping you were going to say the other is better, since it’s less costly.  

 

the place I can mount is almost 16’ up so I won’t be moving the antenna back and forth.

 

Alright, I guess I need to grab one of those, 25’ or so of cable and drill some holes.  My wife is going to love this, though she ought to be used to it after all these years.

[wayoverthere]

Admittedly, I was hoping you were going to say the other is better, since it’s less costly.  

 

the place I can mount is almost 16’ up so I won’t be moving the antenna back and forth.

 

Alright, I guess I need to grab one of those, 25’ or so of cable and drill some holes.  My wife is going to love this, though she ought to be used to it after all these years.

in either case, some height will definitely help.  another option to look into are the ed fong antennas...as far as i know, they'll fall between the base ones you linked and the mobile i linked in size,  and they're a bit less expensive than all of the above. they may also score a little better on the wife approval scale.

 

i remember there being at least a couple members on the site with experience with them, too.

 

edit: some links.

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/2076-newb-questions-about-gmrs-roof-antenna/?p=18186

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/2070-looking-at-two-antennas/?do=findComment&comment=18141

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/2034-rollup-slim-jim-antenna/?hl=fong

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/1671-what-base-antenna-is-the-best-bang-for-the-money/?do=findComment&comment=17749

[Savage]

in either case, some height will definitely help.  another option to look into are the ed fong antennas...as far as i know, they'll fall between the base ones you linked and the mobile i linked in size,  and they're a bit less expensive than all of the above. they may also score a little better on the wife approval scale.

 

i remember there being at least a couple members on the site with experience with them, too.

 

edit: some links.

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/2076-newb-questions-about-gmrs-roof-antenna/?p=18186

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/2070-looking-at-two-antennas/?do=findComment&comment=18141

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/2034-rollup-slim-jim-antenna/?hl=fong

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/1671-what-base-antenna-is-the-best-bang-for-the-money/?do=findComment&comment=17749

 

I found the Tram for a really good price so bought it.   Since I pretty much know nothing about the connectors and such other than what you've mentioned I'll wait until it arrives and I am certain about the mounting spot before I grab the rest of what I need.  Looking around the house, I think the peak on the back of the house might be a better place so it's not visible at all from the street whereas on the side it will have some visibility at certain angles and at the back, it's still not that far from the room.

[wayoverthere]

I found the Tram for a really good price so bought it.   Since I pretty much know nothing about the connectors and such other than what you've mentioned I'll wait until it arrives and I am certain about the mounting spot before I grab the rest of what I need.  Looking around the house, I think the peak on the back of the house might be a better place so it's not visible at all from the street whereas on the side it will have some visibility at certain angles and at the back, it's still not that far from the room.

connector wise: the ad shows it with a standard uhf female (so-239) connector which will be the same as what's on your radio.  the matching cable will be uhf male (pl-259) which is fairly common.  having an idea of the length needed before you buy is best; it's minor, but every connection loses a little bit of power.  (good example with pictures here)

 

one other consideration with mounting outside is lightning protection...some people choose not to.  being mostly plastic/fiberglass does reduce the chances of getting hit, but not eliminate; disconnecting when there's lightning around is cheap insurance. here is a bit i was able to gather off of the web, but hopefully those with more knowledge than i will chime in.

 

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/1828-antenna-grounding/?hl=lightning

http://www.arrl.org/grounding

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/60-proper-antenna-grounding/

 

i've avoided the issue with my current setup by parking a smaller antenna in a corner of the attic (midland 5/8 wave, mag mounted to a chunk of sheet metal for ground plane).  the tram/browning 5/8 over 5/8 would be more gain, but won't fit the current space it's hiding in.  i'm throwing a bit more power at it, but it works well enough to reach a repeater a little over 60 miles away on high power, reasonably clear.

[Savage]

connector wise: the ad shows it with a standard uhf female (so-239) connector which will be the same as what's on your radio.  the matching cable will be uhf male (pl-259) which is fairly common.  having an idea of the length needed before you buy is best; it's minor, but every connection loses a little bit of power.  (good example with pictures here)

 

one other consideration with mounting outside is lightning protection...some people choose not to.  being mostly plastic/fiberglass does reduce the chances of getting hit, but not eliminate; disconnecting when there's lightning around is cheap insurance. here is a bit i was able to gather off of the web, but hopefully those with more knowledge than i will chime in.

 

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/1828-antenna-grounding/?hl=lightning

http://www.arrl.org/grounding

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/60-proper-antenna-grounding/

 

i've avoided the issue with my current setup by parking a smaller antenna in a corner of the attic (midland 5/8 wave, mag mounted to a chunk of sheet metal for ground plane).  the tram/browning 5/8 over 5/8 would be more gain, but won't fit the current space it's hiding in.  i'm throwing a bit more power at it, but it works well enough to reach a repeater a little over 60 miles away on high power, reasonably clear.

Now we’re well over my head and reading some of the info at the arrl.org link has me thinking this is too complicated.  The fortunate thing is I’m in Southern California (fortunate... for the weather) and we rarely have lightning at all.

 

Question about the attic - I probably have enough headroom to stand this up in the attic. Is the attic perhaps a better option, similar to what you’ve done?  is the attic a compromise?  

[wayoverthere]

Question about the attic - I probably have enough headroom to stand this up in the attic. Is the attic perhaps a better option, similar to what you’ve done? is the attic a compromise?

It IS a compromise, no doubt. How much of a compromise depends on what you have going on, construction wise. If you have a metal roof, or radiant barrier insulation (foil is a dead giveaway), it's less feasible, as that will block a lot of the signal.

 

If it's more basic wood/tar paper/comp shingles, it's less of an issue, and the fact that I have solar panels toward the front and back of the house from where the antenna sits hasn't seemed to be an issue, and not having to worry about weather overall has seemed worth the trade so far.

[BoxCar]

The attic is a compromise usually done to thwart the HOA police. There is one rule for radio overage area -- height. The higher your antenna is above ground the greater the coverage area. There are additional rules about antenna height but, generally, 20 feet above the structure they are mounted on.

[Savage]

It IS a compromise, no doubt. How much of a compromise depends on what you have going on, construction wise. If you have a metal roof, or radiant barrier insulation (foil is a dead giveaway), it's less feasible, as that will block a lot of the signal.

 

If it's more basic wood/tar paper/comp shingles, it's less of an issue, and the fact that I have solar panels toward the front and back of the house from where the antenna sits hasn't seemed to be an issue, and not having to worry about weather overall has seemed worth the trade so far.

 

I'm in a wood framed, asphalt shingle house so no stone or brick although the exterior does have stucco.  In the end, if the attic really isn't a deterrent for lightning strikes there's probably no sense in me putting it there but as usual, the opinions are all over the place.  

 

The attic is a compromise usually done to thwart the HOA police. There is one rule for radio overage area -- height. The higher your antenna is above ground the greater the coverage area. There are additional rules about antenna height but, generally, 20 feet above the structure they are mounted on.

 

We have an HOA but it's a skeleton HOA (houses from the late 60's) and they really only keep up the club/pool/tennis courts and do no enforcements of any of the minimal rules that nobody has probably read in 30 years.

 

That said, I'm not going to get anywhere near 20 feet in fact I'm planning on screwing it into the fascia board (I think there's another name for it - the wood that frames the eaves) so it will be about 5' above the crest (unless I go with the attic).  I figure that's better than an antenna sitting in the room with me. 

[berkinet]

... although the exterior does have stucco. ...

Not that it will not matter much in your case with an attic location, but, stucco is usually applied over a chickenwire or other metal mesh base. So, while the thin layer of stucco will have minimal effect of RF transmission/reception, the chickenwire might.

[Savage]

Not that it will not matter much in your case with an attic location, but, stucco is usually applies over a chickenwire or other metal mesh base. So, while the thin layer of stucco will have minimal effect of RF transmission/reception, the chickenwire might.

 

Didn't even think about that - it's definitely on top of a metal mesh.  

 

If I can get convinced of the grounding safety I'll just place it on the exterior.

 

I don't have it anymore (cut the cord), but when I had satellite TV, I think their ground looked something like 12 gauge wire down to the side yard but I can't recall whether they had it attached to the metal gas pipe (thinking about it, wouldn't that be a bad idea?) or if I removed a post hammered into the dirt when I took everything out.