Can a GMRS repeater operate on non repeater channels?

[8nannyfoe]

Hmmm

[smalpierre]

Technically they CAN, but legally absolutely without a doubt "NO".

[gortex2]

OK. You need to explain this one. There are 8 GMRS frequencies only. Repeaters always transmit LOW and is how many of the GMRS radios sold on the market support. I dont understand why you would not use defined frequency plan. I mean do you mean different TX and RX pairs ? IF so not sure why again.

 

Please explain your question.

[8nannyfoe]

OK. You need to explain this one. There are 8 GMRS frequencies only. Repeaters always transmit LOW and is how many of the GMRS radios sold on the market support. I don't understand why you would not use defined frequency plan. I mean do you mean different TX and RX pairs ? IF so not sure why again.

 

Please explain your question.

So my wife and I live off grid with no cell service.  We purchased a pair of Motorola T800s.   They have a really nice feature that allows location to be transmitted at the push of a button in an emergency.    The problem is they are a bit weak and need a range boost.   I then purchased a Wouxon 805 that easily covers the area we want, but the location safety feature found on the Motorola is not on the Wouxon.   I was thinking of using a repeater but didn't realize the step issue needed for the repeater would put it on the FRS channel at .5 watts which would alleviate the repeater.   Looking for solutions.

[MacJack]

The short answer no FRS repeating... No on GMRS repeater if your handheld as not set to do offsets for repeater channels.  If you want to do your own repeater will be based on the location that will cover your area of need as well on placement of antenna and wattage going out the antenna.  Now I like all the features of Motorola T800 BUT what I see they are not Repeater Able...  I do not think they do GMRS channels as well, nor can they do the offset +5 that is needs for repeaters.  But do reach out to Motorola and ask them if it is repeater capable (I have no clue and others will comment who have this same issue).  

 

I have a KG-805G as well and it is a killer on local privately owned repeater... plus the 2 plus miles just on a GMRS channel.  I get 30 plus miles in the mountains of WNC as the repeater I have access to is on one of the highest plus well located mountain.  So no need for me to put up a repeater as this is great owner and group of folks.

 

So I like and looked at your Motorola T800, they are great for hiking, campground, looking for your wife in the Mall, all within a few miles (I wanted more coverage as we are short on cell coverage).  Do you have a repeater in your area... otherwise check out all the chat about setting up your own repeaters in this forum.... (do not spend more then $5-600).  O and get another KG-805G and program it with cable and software to your needs like your own repeaters or others channels.

 

Hope this help, the above is IMHO and non techie... Just what this newbie has learned from some of the great mentors on the forum.  I'm like a translator for those that have all the technical jargon and I'm just more practical and how do I make it work for my family needs.

 

Jack

So my wife and I live off grid with no cell service.  We purchased a pair of Motorola T800s.   They have a really nice feature that allows location to be transmitted at the push of a button in an emergency.    The problem is they are a bit weak and need a range boost.   I then purchased a Wouxon 805 that easily covers the area we want, but the location safety feature found on the Motorola is not on the Wouxon.   I was thinking of using a repeater but didn't realize the step issue needed for the repeater would put it on the FRS channel at .5 watts which would alleviate the repeater.   Looking for solutions.

 

Edit.... We winter in Fort Myers... I looked up repeaters in your area... https://mygmrs.com/repeater/291 and in Fort Myers https://mygmrs.com/repeater/2391  Turn on your 805G on and listen to channel 15-21 and if you hear morse code CW sound, get an app for your iPhone and pickup call signs for who repeater owner is.   

[8nannyfoe]

The short answer no FRS repeating... No on GMRS repeater if your handheld as not set to do offsets for repeater channels.  If you want to do your own repeater will be based on the location that will cover your area of need as well on placement of antenna and wattage going out the antenna.  Now I like all the features of Motorola T800 BUT what I see they are not Repeater Able...  I do not think they do GMRS channels as well, nor can they do the offset +5 that is needs for repeaters.  But do reach out to Motorola and ask them if it is repeater capable (I have no clue and others will comment who have this same issue).  

 

I have a KG-805G as well and it is a killer on local privately owned repeater... plus the 2 plus miles just on a GMRS channel.  I get 30 plus miles in the mountains of WNC as the repeater I have access to is on one of the highest plus well located mountain.  So no need for me to put up a repeater as this is great owner and group of folks.

 

So I like and looked at your Motorola T800, they are great for hiking, campground, looking for your wife in the Mall, all within a few miles (I wanted more coverage as we are short on cell coverage).  Do you have a repeater in your area... otherwise check out all the chat about setting up your own repeaters in this forum.... (do not spend more then $5-600).  O and get another KG-805G and program it with cable and software to your needs like your own repeaters or others channels.

 

Hope this help, the above is IMHO and non techie... Just what this newbie has learned from some of the great mentors on the forum.  I'm like a translator for those that have all the technical jargon and I'm just more practical and how do I make it work for my family needs.

 

Jack

 

Edit.... We winter in Fort Myers... I looked up repeaters in your area... https://mygmrs.com/repeater/291 and in Fort Myers https://mygmrs.com/repeater/2391  Turn on your 805G on and listen to channel 15-21 and if you hear morse code CW sound, get an app for your iPhone and pickup call signs for who repeater owner is.   

 

Yes this is our winter getaway also.   I'm not so much referring to here though.   Plenty of folks around to help in an emergency,  My home up north has no cell phone service so we don't have a way to talk  It is in the sticks LOL.   I did find a repeater up there so that is HUGE!  I may be able to tap into it.  We shall see come late spring.   Do you know if a GMRS repeater carries the data signal (gps location and text messaging)?

[gortex2]

What you are trying to do will not work. Repeaters are only on GMRS. Purchase a GMRS capable radio and you can install your own small repeater. It will not be cheap endeavor to do it correct. Plan to spend a few hundred dollars at bare minimum.

[smalpierre]

So my wife and I live off grid with no cell service.  We purchased a pair of Motorola T800s.   They have a really nice feature that allows location to be transmitted at the push of a button in an emergency.    The problem is they are a bit weak and need a range boost.   I then purchased a Wouxon 805 that easily covers the area we want, but the location safety feature found on the Motorola is not on the Wouxon.   I was thinking of using a repeater but didn't realize the step issue needed for the repeater would put it on the FRS channel at .5 watts which would alleviate the repeater.   Looking for solutions.

 

Ok, now I get what you're trying to do! For one - the Motorolas I believe are FRS radios, so they're limited to 2 watts (half watt on ch 8-14, but that's GMRS too) - and the Wouxun is a GMRS radio, so it can do 5 watts instead of 2 (the vast majority of FRS only radios I'm aware of are half watt on ALL channels anyway - if any are an exception I'd expect the Motorola to tx on 2w though). That's a good part of why you get better range with them.

 

To do what you want to do on GMRS, a repeater is useless since location reporting on repeater channels is verboten by the FCC. I'm not 100% sure, but generally repeaters don't re-transmit sub audible tones like CTCSS, and digital modes don't work on an analog repeater - possibly for this reason (you need to use a digipeater, but I'm not sure the gorey details of why)...

 

There are radios that do what you want to do, do it legally, and are legit GMRS radios that transmit with 5w of power - but the only one I'm aware of is the Garmin Rino, and it's pretty costly. It also btw - is repeater capable, but I'm positive Garmin has the location service turned off when you're using repeater channels because "verboten by FCC".

 

Of note - just because it's 5w doesn't mean it'll get you the same range as the Wouxun - it might, but it might not. almost certainly get you a good bit more range than the FRS only radios though.

 

The 700 isn't the only Rino - I think the 750 is almost twice the price, there may be lower priced ones, they might not all be repeater capable, and some might not even report GPS data over the radio, but I'd think they all would since it seems to be a defining feature of that series of radios ... They look like a really nice unit though, and it doesn't require a cell phone to get GPS data among other things.

 

https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/rino700/EN-US/GUID-50387297-8833-415B-B1DF-5453CB1B4E09.html

 

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/576031

[smalpierre]

What you are trying to do will not work. Repeaters are only on GMRS. Purchase a GMRS capable radio and you can install your own small repeater. It will not be cheap endeavor to do it correct. Plan to spend a few hundred dollars at bare minimum.

Don't need a repeater to do what he wants to do. "repeater, and repeater capable radios" is the right answer, just to the wrong question. he clarified a couple of posts down from the top what his actual goal is - which is position reporting.

[8nannyfoe]

Ok, now I get what you're trying to do! For one - the Motorolas I believe are FRS radios, so they're limited to 2 watts (half watt on ch 8-14, but that's GMRS too) - and the Wouxun is a GMRS radio, so it can do 5 watts instead of 2 (the vast majority of FRS only radios I'm aware of are half watt on ALL channels anyway - if any are an exception I'd expect the Motorola to tx on 2w though). That's a good part of why you get better range with them.

 

To do what you want to do on GMRS, a repeater is useless since location reporting on repeater channels is verboten by the FCC. I'm not 100% sure, but generally repeaters don't re-transmit sub audible tones like CTCSS, and digital modes don't work on an analog repeater - possibly for this reason (you need to use a digipeater, but I'm not sure the gorey details of why)...

 

There are radios that do what you want to do, do it legally, and are legit GMRS radios that transmit with 5w of power - but the only one I'm aware of is the Garmin Rino, and it's pretty costly. It also btw - is repeater capable, but I'm positive Garmin has the location service turned off when you're using repeater channels because "verboten by FCC".

 

Of note - just because it's 5w doesn't mean it'll get you the same range as the Wouxun - it might, but it might not. almost certainly get you a good bit more range than the FRS only radios though.

 

The 700 isn't the only Rino - I think the 750 is almost twice the price, there may be lower priced ones, they might not all be repeater capable, and some might not even report GPS data over the radio, but I'd think they all would since it seems to be a defining feature of that series of radios ... They look like a really nice unit though, and it doesn't require a cell phone to get GPS data among other things.

 

https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/rino700/EN-US/GUID-50387297-8833-415B-B1DF-5453CB1B4E09.html

 

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/576031

[8nannyfoe]

 

Ok, now I get what you're trying to do! For one - the Motorolas I believe are FRS radios, so they're limited to 2 watts (half watt on ch 8-14, but that's GMRS too) - and the Wouxun is a GMRS radio, so it can do 5 watts instead of 2 (the vast majority of FRS only radios I'm aware of are half watt on ALL channels anyway - if any are an exception I'd expect the Motorola to tx on 2w though). That's a good part of why you get better range with them.

 

To do what you want to do on GMRS, a repeater is useless since location reporting on repeater channels is verboten by the FCC. I'm not 100% sure, but generally repeaters don't re-transmit sub audible tones like CTCSS, and digital modes don't work on an analog repeater - possibly for this reason (you need to use a digipeater, but I'm not sure the gorey details of why)...

 

There are radios that do what you want to do, do it legally, and are legit GMRS radios that transmit with 5w of power - but the only one I'm aware of is the Garmin Rino, and it's pretty costly. It also btw - is repeater capable, but I'm positive Garmin has the location service turned off when you're using repeater channels because "verboten by FCC".

 

Of note - just because it's 5w doesn't mean it'll get you the same range as the Wouxun - it might, but it might not. almost certainly get you a good bit more range than the FRS only radios though.

 

The 700 isn't the only Rino - I think the 750 is almost twice the price, there may be lower priced ones, they might not all be repeater capable, and some might not even report GPS data over the radio, but I'd think they all would since it seems to be a defining feature of that series of radios ... They look like a really nice unit though, and it doesn't require a cell phone to get GPS data among other things.

 

https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/rino700/EN-US/GUID-50387297-8833-415B-B1DF-5453CB1B4E09.html

 

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/576031

 

[MacJack]

I just picked up a GR1225 for $300 and power it to 25 watts for family at home then move it to RV and Jeeping.  This new purchase can run on standby 12 volt battery and trickle charge off of 110v plus I have solar charging in RV as well as an inverter that I will plug it into.  O and in the RV site plugged in... so not running battery dry.  So my two KG-805G working off our family repeater will really work well for us.

Jack 

[smalpierre]

I just picked up a GR1225 for $300 and power it to 25 watts for family at home then move it to RV and Jeeping.  This new purchase can run on standby 12 volt battery and trickle charge off of 110v plus I have solar charging in RV as well as an inverter that I will plug it into.  O and in the RV site plugged in... so not running battery dry.  So my two KG-805G working off our family repeater will really work well for us.

Jack 

Did you just pick up that GR1225 I was eyeballing? You might want to wipe the drool off of it! 300 bucks WITH the programming set, and duplexer tuned is ... I wish I would have seen that before I did what I did! But if I HAD done that, maybe I wouldn't have learned that LMR-400 isn't good for the haul between the antenna and duplexer? So I learned something new! That's gotta be worth something right?

 

Anyway - if you're going for a mobile repeater, i'm not sure - but it MIGHT be better to get a feedline that's actually "less desireable" than LMR400, because it's supposedly the braid interface with the foil that causes the problem. If it's stationary, probably hardline is best. If mobile, maybe something that's "not as good" but also not dual shielded would be better since the dual shield is what I understand causes the intermod / desense issues with full duplex.

 

Now - the battery charging system - I can most certainly help you out on that front. I have a couple of solar / battery systems going right now, and I've been involved with solar (and low voltage systems in general) for a good long while - way before solar was "cool".

 

For a mobile temporary setup thats not going to see heavy traffic (and hence heavy battery draw) - especially if most of the draw is during daylight - you have options. If you're running 120v charge maintinence you're on easy street. With mains power, get a battery charger for cars that can stop charging to avoid overcharging the battery, that can auto switch between trickle charge and "mo powa" charging. They're about 100 bucks, and they're everywhere. If it'll ramp up to at least 10a on trickle (most won't go over that range even if there's a heavy draw and they're 50A capable for "start" function) you probaby have it made in the shade. if not? Add another battery and wire in parallel. Have somebody on standby to push the "mo powa" button if needed.

 

Solar is a bit more involved, but it's doable too. a 2x4 panel on a charge controller to a similar battery setup. As long as you're not jawboning through the dark hours, you could do solar without getting too crazy.

[MacJack]

Sorry I beat you out of the GR1225.  The seller is like you, full of helpful info for success.  Thanks for your comments.  I have added them to my GR1225 ideas and instruction sheet.  As for solar my RV is all rigged out for that, BUT you offer an ideal if I put this out on a mountain top with no power.

Again sorry I beat you on this deal.

Jack

Did you just pick up that GR1225 I was eyeballing? You might want to wipe the drool off of it! 300 bucks WITH the programming set, and duplexer tuned is ... I wish I would have seen that before I did what I did! But if I HAD done that, maybe I wouldn't have learned that LMR-400 isn't good for the haul between the antenna and duplexer? So I learned something new! That's gotta be worth something right?

Anyway - if you're going for a mobile repeater, i'm not sure - but it MIGHT be better to get a feedline that's actually "less desireable" than LMR400, because it's supposedly the braid interface with the foil that causes the problem. If it's stationary, probably hardline is best. If mobile, maybe something that's "not as good" but also not dual shielded would be better since the dual shield is what I understand causes the intermod / desense issues with full duplex.

Now - the battery charging system - I can most certainly help you out on that front. I have a couple of solar / battery systems going right now, and I've been involved with solar (and low voltage systems in general) for a good long while - way before solar was "cool".

For a mobile temporary setup thats not going to see heavy traffic (and hence heavy battery draw) - especially if most of the draw is during daylight - you have options. If you're running 120v charge maintinence you're on easy street. With mains power, get a battery charger for cars that can stop charging to avoid overcharging the battery, that can auto switch between trickle charge and "mo powa" charging. They're about 100 bucks, and they're everywhere. If it'll ramp up to at least 10a on trickle (most won't go over that range even if there's a heavy draw and they're 50A capable for "start" function) you probaby have it made in the shade. if not? Add another battery and wire in parallel. Have somebody on standby to push the "mo powa" button if needed.

Solar is a bit more involved, but it's doable too. a 2x4 panel on a charge controller to a similar battery setup. As long as you're not jawboning through the dark hours, you could do solar without getting too crazy.

[berkinet]

Did you just pick up that GR1225 I was eyeballing?

 

 

 

GR1225s are available all the time on eBay.  Often with a duplexer and tuning included.  However, be aware of one thing. That radio has a very common problem of blown finals.  While it is rated at 40 watts output, it cannot do that at a 100% duty cycle. 10 watts is safe and I wouldn't suggest going over that for anything but the most minor, infrequent use, application.  So, make sure that whatever you buy is guaranteed.

[MacJack]

No smalpierre did not get it if you are talking about the one Steve sold to me.  He a great guy and help to this newbie repeater guy... Yes not running full power... 25 and 10 if need be.  Your comment are well received and like the way folks watch out for us newbies.

Jack

GR1225s are available all the time on eBay.  Often with a duplexer and tuning included.  However, be aware of one ting. That radio has a very common problem of blown finals.  While it is rated at 40 watts output, it cannot do that at a 100% duty cycle. 10 watts is safe and I wouldn't suggest going over that for anything but the most minor, infrequent use, application.  So, make sure that whatever you buy is guaranteed.

[smalpierre]

GR1225s are available all the time on eBay.  Often with a duplexer and tuning included.  However, be aware of one thing. That radio has a very common problem of blown finals.  While it is rated at 40 watts output, it cannot do that at a 100% duty cycle. 10 watts is safe and I wouldn't suggest going over that for anything but the most minor, infrequent use, application.  So, make sure that whatever you buy is guaranteed.

Yeah, I kind of figured it wasn't going to be good for 40w with people talking on it all day. Generally I think it's a good idea to not run anything full tilt. There's not really a reason to unless you've got an antenna over 150 feet and you're trying to get out 50 miles anyway.

 

The setup I've got basically uses a gmrs-v1 to a 40w linear amp - but I've got the power turned down so it'll be more in the 20w output power range - just to keep it all from burning up hopefully.

 

I see them on ebay, but like right now for example - there's one for 120 bucks, but no duplexer. Then below it is a duplexer for like 300 bucks. Then you have to buy the programming gear...

 

So I do see them all the time - but this was 300 bucks for a working unit all dialed in and ready to go - more or less plug and play. Then there are other units here and there  (not gr1225) and they're generally in the 600+ range with similar issues - some have duplexers, some don't have the option for a flatpack built in etc. That's why I was kind of suprrised to see a "ready to go" unit of any kind for 300. At that price, you could spend 500 bucks on an antenna and feedline or more, and still be under $1k for the entire system. 

[berkinet]

There are loads of flat pack UHF mobile duplexers on ebay for under $100. These are often of, at best, fair quality. But, they will do the job, especially if you keep the power down. Honestly, there is very little need for a high powered repeater on UHF.  If you do set the xmit power high, you are likely to have an alligator,  big loud mouth, and little tiny ears.  I.e. users will hear the repeater, but the repeater  will not hear the users.