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FCC law regarding Business use of GMRS


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#1 Logan5

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:38 AM

In my local area 2 of the GMRS/Family Radio, repeater pairs are used by a hotel group on the beach. they seem to have a 75 watt + repeater set up on 462.600/467.600 and the channel it buzy all day and night. It is obvious to me they do not have a GMRS lic. and even more unlikely that each user has the $85 lic. required for them to be even marginally compliant. I have made several formal request for them to identify their call signs. and in over a month, they refuse to reply. I need to know what to say to them before I contact my local FCC field office and make a formal compliant. I would prefer to work this out with the interfering party, with out making any FCC compliant. however they refuse to cooperate. 



#2 JohnE

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:20 PM

you have to be absolutely sure of who it is before you approach them.

make recordings/video of it and be totally sure of the freq they are on.

find their PL's and key the machine yourself to double check.

seeing as you seem to have announced yourself already you can tell them over the air that you will be going to the FCC, site what rule they are in violation of and let them know what the fines are going to be.let them know they're being recorded too.

w/that in mind do a search for GMRS fine in Scottsdale AZ a yr or 2 back for an auto dealership who got hit for IIRC $20K.

as an Individual I would not approach the business in question personally.

w/recordings/video in hand I would then approach the FCC.

PG your thoughts.

 

 

**EDIT** FOUND LINK

http://forums.radior...d-gmrs-use.html


Edited by JohnE, 24 April 2013 - 04:28 PM.

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#3 PastorGary

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 05:48 PM

Please refer to the following FCC Part 95 GMRS stipulations:

 

95.5c   (and note - the regulations state previously licensed GMRS system,  not  Part 90 BUSINESS system on those frequencies.)

 

95.7b

 

95.119

 

95.135a

 

95.179b

 

and finally -

 

95.117    for contact info.

 

Rules Link:

 

http://www.ecfr.gov/...0.1.1.5.1.139.1

 

 



#4 Logan5

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 02:40 PM

After i sent an e-mail to the Hotel group this morning:

I was just contacted by telephone by a female "General manager" of the hotel group in question, she and her group are ready to make the changes necessary to the repeater to become FCC compliant. I spent about 10 min's with her explaining how I and my group had paid for FCC licenses for the Freq. they are on and she agreed that it needed to be fixed. I told her. i had not filed a compliant with the FCC and would not as long as they made appropriate changes in a timely fashion. I also informed her that my group may not be the only compliant with the FCC and that I had no control of any other party or group. She seemed to understand the magnitude of the situation and I told her to call if she had any further questions, but that I could not offer any technical assistance.


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#5 JohnE

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 07:06 PM

glad to see you made some progress.

she or they should be talking to their radio provider at this point.

did you make them aware that they should be on commercial/land mobile freq's?

also on a side note I have heard from more than one source that the FCC is not only fining violators but also the shops that set them up. I don't know how much truth there is to this but like I said I got it from more than one place.

I use to be able to make a call to verify stuff like that but my connection to local field office retired yrs ago.

 

i had not filed a compliant with the FCC and would not as long as they made appropriate changes in a timely fashion.

that process can take 6 months or more depending on the shop , coordinator, freq's available and time to process the license.

just sayin'


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#6 quarterwave

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 01:56 PM

It's probably a lazy radio shop/guy doing an easy sale...that's probably how they ended up on GMRS anyway...it happens from time to time. 



#7 Logan5

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:14 PM

It's probably a lazy radio shop/guy doing an easy sale...that's probably how they ended up on GMRS anyway...it happens from time to time. 

She claimed that a previous employee had set them up on 462.600 and that he no longer worked for them. She also claimed she did not know what property the repeater was located. I told her that her and her commercial business group needed to be on a Business freq. and she said she understood that. Yes, JohnE I understand it may take them some time to transition but i am patient, but I warned her if there were any other party complaints, that i had no control of that. they have reduced their airtime by 50% as a result. so we are preparing to put FTL600 back on the air next week. However the duplexer won't be back till Saturday. so will be on a Yagi for receive and a whip for TX for a day or two.



#8 Logan5

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:17 PM

I also obtained a 48' telescoping and tilt over Radio tower last weekend. got the whole thing even the 250lbs pole from the ground. going to re rig it with SS and electric winches, and install it in Concrete at the new house. for now  apx. 23' to ground plane for a month to two anyway.



#9 JohnE

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 02:55 PM

I also obtained a 48' telescoping and tilt over Radio tower last weekend. got the whole thing even the 250lbs pole from the ground. going to re rig it with SS and electric winches, and install it in Concrete at the new house. for now  apx. 23' to ground plane for a month to two anyway.

NICE!


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#10 Logan5

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 03:42 PM

I know right. I ask, and the home owner indicated he did not want it. and me and 2 good neighbors made short work of it. it also has a rotor, that i want to use, but no controller, so I do not even know where to begin with that. JohnE I just looked thru your gallery, amazing view and equipment,. would love a tour when i am in NYC next. regardless I will check in on your repeater, but that won't be till next year. since we bought the house. want to get some renovations out of the way b4 any major travel plans. then I will want to know the GMRS rules for Australia and New Zealand. lol



#11 PastorGary

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 06:21 PM

For used rotor controllers, take a look at the web link below or call Ken in Michigan during regular business hours... His inventory is constantly changing, so if you don't see something listed, contact him direct for an inquiry...

 

http://www.kenselectronics.com/

 

 

 

 

 



#12 Logan5

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:56 AM

PastorGary, I need to check that link again, i am a bit confused on these rotors, not sure i am with it. also I keep seeing, "Don't paint a telescoping tower" I am planning to paint the bottom section brown, the the top section a floral green. I also want to paint the UVS200 lite blue. so the whole thing blends into the environment. I have inspected the workings of the tower and I can clearly see what parts that should not be painted. the rest looks fair game to me. and i believe if I use a nonmetallic paint on the UVS200 it should be fine as well.  Please, any sugestions on this will be greatly appreciated. I am going to go hook up this re-tuned duplexer..



#13 Logan5

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 01:24 PM

I am very pleased to announce that my local interference on FTL600 has been resolved, they have shut down their repeater.  but I have not scanned FRS and GMRS freq's enough to know for sure they have not camped out on another GMRS channel. I do hear some low power simplex operation by the same group, so it looks as though they are without a repeater for the interim. Then just 5 min's ago a friend of mine proposed  that this hotel group is likely mob owned and that I risk my safety messing with them? I was like, "what the heck"? This person also believes that 911 was our own government hoax.  



#14 PastorGary

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 03:40 PM

At least for the moment your GMRS channel is clear - hope it stays that way.

 

Regarding tower paint...  I've gone that route in the past and one of the reasons that (Rohn) doesn't recomemnd painting the sections is for lightning conductivity.  If you take a hit with a non-painted tower, there isn't any high resistance junction area where the tower sections ride in the guides.  If those areas are painted, the lightning will do weird things in getting down to ground  -  like splashing over and following your feedline into the shack or involving the winch power feeds.  Painting the tower, so there is not a continuous top to bottom tower ground, can also increase the SWR in certain cases, so look things over carefully before you decide.  I painted one of mine, but left the section to section contact points paint free and that seemed to be OK.

 

Please keep us posted.


PastorGary -

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#15 Billy

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 06:33 PM

At least for the moment your GMRS channel is clear - hope it stays that way.

 

Regarding tower paint...  I've gone that route in the past and one of the reasons that (Rohn) doesn't recomemnd painting the sections is for lightning conductivity.  If you take a hit with a non-painted tower, there isn't any high resistance junction area where the tower sections ride in the guides.  If those areas are painted, the lightning will do weird things in getting down to ground  -  like splashing over and following your feedline into the shack or involving the winch power feeds.  Painting the tower, so there is not a continuous top to bottom tower ground, can also increase the SWR in certain cases, so look things over carefully before you decide.  I painted one of mine, but left the section to section contact points paint free and that seemed to be OK.

 

Please keep us posted.

Good Points Gary.  Sectioned towers are relatively easy to install but the sections can cause all kinds of unknown RF and electric anomolies.   Always better with a direct path to ground and good grounding materials.  I trick I learned when installing towers was to use 8' of threaded rod for the base fastners.   Even though one will only use a few feet of concrete by driving in the threaded rod 8' down the structure itself will provide its own grounding. 

 

A good and untapped source of radio towers are old street lamp posts.   They have nice bases for rotors (with access panels) and are usually in excess of 24 foot.  One can easily put up another 10 foot or mast without guy wires.  As for weight they are cast aluminum and not hard to handle, hard to get home but not hard to errect.  I had one with a my back yard growing up with a 11 meter beam.   Best darn CB setup I have ever seen.  My father had four 1" pieces of rod, 8 foot down.  I personally observed it take a lightning strike that shook the house, deflected and found the a broken TV antenna down the block.  We were fine but the Fire Department had to visit that house.  But that is the way most municipalities ground their street lighting and a good tip.   Voltage through coax is another topic all together however. 



#16 obxjeepguy

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 03:52 PM

Did you by chance do an FCC license check of this hotel? You DO realize that there are still some grandfathered businesses that use the same frequency pairs as GMRS?



#17 obxjeepguy

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 03:56 PM

Here are a couple of examples in my state:

 

http://wireless2.fcc...p?licKey=195393

 

http://wireless2.fcc...p?licKey=197038



#18 obxjeepguy

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 03:59 PM

And now looking at Florida, I see SEVERAL townships, Scools, and businesses carrying current GMRS licensing... I sure hope you didn't set yourself up for embarrassment....



#19 Logan5

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 04:30 PM

Yes we did much research and they had no license at all. and they moved their communications now and the community has a repeater for watch and emergency communications. Yes I do hear much business communications on GMRS channels, I use a 13.8 DB HOZ. yagi antenna and a rotor at 20 feet or so to scan and I can not find any other business repeaters on the GMRS services. but lot's of Taxi cab's and other simplex business communications for sure. less than 10% of the GMRS communications I hear are even close to legal. even the citizens on our community repeater, seldom announce their call sign's, so I usually have to announce mine to make up for it. all and all it's ok with me. it's all for the good of seniors and the neighborhoods involved.  none the less the Hotel group is probably better off on a more private channel anyway. they may even upgraded and have all the features we only dream of.



#20 Logan5

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 11:18 AM

I have yet another repeater on our groups pair. they had over a dozen users till I contacted them 2 weeks ago, now it's just 3 or so users, each time they communicate, I simply announce "Your communication is not secure and is not Legal" sometimes I explain that the frequency they have chosen to use illegally is not secure, since a radio could be obtained from Terget or K-mark, and that tenants and guest would be horrified if they were aware their names were being shared on such an illegal unsecured radio system.

I expect them to change frequency soon. I hope they get compliant as well. I wish I knew who is going around town setting up these illegal systems.






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