Do Governmental Entities Ever Establish GMRS Repeaters?

[MichaelLAX]

I once spoke to a Malibu resident on the Topanga GMRS repeater and he told me that the City of Malibu was funding the manufacture of DB20-G GoBox's with an enclosed rechargeable battery for distribution to citizens in particularly sensitive areas of the City that are at risk for fire and flood/mud dangers.

I wish I had written down his callsign, because the whole concept sounds fascinating and I have never been able to get any followup on this project, including much use of Google on the City's website.

The VNC575 Topanga Repeater is, as to be expected, privately held.

[WRTJ223]

We have a couple of locations that the city controls. The city is willing to work with a group of involved citizens to put up a repeater. So, how would we do this?? Could a club or a group fo citizens who want to be proactive for emergency communications {in our situation flash flood alley in Texas] work with the city under FCC guidelines? Maybe these specifics will help y'all help me get this repeater up. Thank you to all for your help on this question. The grandfathering notion does not apply to our situation. 

[WRTJ223]

1 minute ago, WRTJ223 said:

We have a couple of locations that the city controls. The city is willing to work with a group of involved citizens to put up a repeater. So, how would we do this?? Could a club or a group fo citizens who want to be proactive for emergency communications {in our situation flash flood alley in Texas] work with the city under FCC guidelines? Maybe these specifics will help y'all help me get this repeater up. Thank you to all for your help on this question. The grandfathering notion does not apply to our situation. 

Or, more specifically (1) can we do this (2) how would we do this.....Im having an "ah-ha" moment. So, in essence only individuals can obtain GMRS license and not governmental entities. Correct? 

[Sshannon]

5 hours ago, WRTJ223 said:

Or, more specifically (1) can we do this (2) how would we do this.....Im having an "ah-ha" moment. So, in essence only individuals can obtain GMRS license and not governmental entities. Correct? 

Correct, only individuals may obtains new GMRS licenses. Before July 31, 1987, other types of GMRS licenses were available for other entities,such as corporations and government entities. Some of those licenses are still active (Grandfathered), but no new licenses are being issued for such entities.  Only individuals can now be newly licensed, but those grandfathered licenses can still be renewed:

Grandfathered GMRS license. A GMRS license held by a non-individual person (i.e.,a partnership, corporation, association or governmental unit) as a result of renewals of a GMRS license issued prior to July 31, 1987.

And it’s worth understanding that the station, the actual physical hardware used to transmit and receive, is not licensed. There are no restrictions on who (or what entities) may buy the hardware, but there are distinct restrictions on who may operate a Station.

From https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-E

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/section-95.1705

A valid individual license is required to operate a GMRS station. To obtain an individual license, an applicant must be eligible and follow the applicable rules and procedures set forth in this subpart and in part 1 of this chapter, and must pay the required application and regulatory fees as set forth in part 1, subpart G of this chapter. 

(a)Eligibility.This paragraph contains eligibility requirements for individual licenses in the GMRS. 

(1)Only an individual who is at least 18 years old and who meets the requirements of § 95.305 is eligible to obtain a new individual GMRS license. 

(2)Any person that holds a valid individual license is eligible to obtain a renewed license, or a modified license to reflect a change of name or address.

[weaverrm]

On 10/4/2022 at 1:22 PM, Lscott said:

Point well taken. Before going off the rails assuming illegal operation one might have stumbled on a perfectly legal grandfathered system. If it bothers somebody do some research before jumping to conclusions.

Even in the Ham world we have to be careful since Hams only have secondary status on the 70cm band, we share it with the primary user, government. I remember doing a frequency search a while back and stumbled across some public safety frequencies between 420 MHz and 430 MHz. The US Ham band officially runs from 420 MHz to 450 MHz depending on how close you are to Canada, Line-A. The 70cm band is a mine field of various users, technical requirements and restrictions.

 https://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/publications/compendium/0420.00-0450.00_01MAR14.pdf    

https://www.chp.ca.gov/find-an-office/central-division/offices/(420)-bakersfield

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf00049.html

 

Looking at your first link referenced item….  All the military comm gear I’ve ever used, repaired, deployed with, etc. was all quite wide with respect to it’s operational spectrum capabilities.  Both fixed site and tactical stuff…. Even the ‘fixed frequency’ stuff such as Air Traffic Control equipment could be easily re-tuned (involved procedures) to any frequency in a band that is quite wide when compared to GMRS and/or ham bands.

As for the main topic question, I’d like to say NO!!  No government agency, at any level of government, has a “need” for it.  Their needs can be met through other methods (other nets / frequencies).  In any and/or all instances to which someone knows of an agency that is doing such; I simply suggest that would be an agency staffed with personnel that lack the knowledge and understanding required to establish their required or necessary wireless communications capabilities… or… they are looking for a “quick fix” short-cut to an “aggravating problem” of some kind.

Look, I’ve been there, done that, and wore the t-shirt.  In my day using military equipment, I could step on just about any frequency I needed to in order to get the mission done.  BUT!!!  AIN’T NO WAY I WOULD HAVE EVER DONE THAT!!!!…because my capabilities were sufficiently robust such that there wasn’t (never would be) a ‘real need’ to do such a thing.  But, in the world of ‘local governments’ there just happens to be people that don’t know, or understand, such stuff as radio frequency communications systems and the various resources that are allocated to people, groups, organizations, businesses, governments, etc. or how to make effective use thereof.  So, wether they know it or not, there are separate sandboxes for those folks to play in.  GMRS ain’t it.

Hope I didn’t hurt anyone's feeling here by shooting off my pie hole…  

[KAF6045]

15 hours ago, WRTJ223 said:

We have a couple of locations that the city controls. The city is willing to work with a group of involved citizens to put up a repeater. So, how would we do this?? Could a club or a group fo citizens who want to be proactive for emergency communications {in our situation flash flood alley in Texas] work with the city under FCC guidelines? Maybe these specifics will help y'all help me get this repeater up. Thank you to all for your help on this question. The grandfathering notion does not apply to our situation. 

Quote

§ 95.1705 Individual licenses required; eligibility; who may operate; cooperative use.

A valid individual license is required to operate a GMRS station. To obtain an individual license, an applicant must be eligible and follow the applicable rules and procedures set forth in this subpart and in part 1 of this chapter, and must pay the required application and regulatory fees as set forth in part 1, subpart G of this chapter.

<SNIP>

(f) Cooperative use of GMRS stations. GMRS licensees may share the use of their stations with other persons eligible in the GMRS, subject to the conditions and limitations in this paragraph.

(1) The GMRS station to be shared must be individually owned by the licensee, jointly owned by the participants and the licensee, leased individually by the licensee, or leased jointly by the participants and the licensee.

(2) The licensee must maintain access to and control over all stations authorized under its license.

(3) A station may be shared only:

(i) Without charge;

(ii) On a non-profit basis, with contributions to capital and operating expenses including the cost of mobile stations and paging receivers prorated equitably among all participants; or

(iii) On a reciprocal basis, i.e., use of one licensee's stations for the use of another licensee's stations without charge for either capital or operating expenses.

(4) All sharing arrangements must be conducted in accordance with a written agreement to be kept as part of the station records.

(g) Limitations on grandfathered GMRS licenses. GMRS licenses that were issued prior to July 31, 1987 authorized GMRS station operation at specified locations, on specified channels, and with specified antenna height and transmitter power. Grandfathered GMRS licenses authorize only continued operation of those specific stations by these licensees, at the specified locations, channels, antenna heights and transmitting power. The FCC does not accept applications to modify, assign, or transfer grandfathered GMRS licenses (other than administrative updates to change contact information).

Regardless of "club" or "group" -- the repeater operates under one individual license, and that licensee must manage use of the repeater. The funds to maintain the repeater can come from "club" members (are you making this a private repeater, or will it be open to the public during non-emergency periods? You might fall under both (3)(i) and (3)(ii) -- somehow). Note that your government entity does not qualify as a "participant" ("other persons eligible in the GMRS" -- the government entity is not eligible for a GMRS license -- and if they had a grandfathered license, it can not be modified for new frequencies).

The government entity could provide a site (maybe for a nominal lease), could install a tower for antennas (especially if it has some LMR license and want to relocate their dispatch/repeater equipment), maybe a pair of shacks (one for their equipment, one for the GMRS repeater gear), have power run to the shacks (likely with independent meters so they can bill the GMRS group for power used by the repeater). They could set up a small EOC with a GMRS radio -- but that radio would only be usable by licensed individuals, not general staff.

Then there is the negotiations on /how/ the equipment will be used in an emergency (net control, chain of command for moving traffic, etc.) with concomitant training of the participants in procedures.

[WRUU653]

I think what they are saying is if you want it you are going to have to put it up yourself or with friends.