Input and Output Tones

[WRUT360]

I’m a newbie to GMRS trying to program a repeater and I’m confused about INPUT and OUTPUT tones.  In other words, which one is transmit and which is receive.  Thank you in Advance. 

[wrci350]

Input is INto the repeater ... in other words, the tone your radio has to transmit to open the repeater.

Output is OUT of the repeater.  You can program this into your radio so you will only hear traffic from the repeater since the tone matches.

You can also leave the output tone out (or CSQ) but if there is other traffic on that frequency (either another repeater or simplex) you'll hear it.

[SteveShannon]

11 minutes ago, WRUT360 said:

I’m a newbie to GMRS trying to program a repeater and I’m confused about INPUT and OUTPUT tones.  In other words, which one is transmit and which is receive.  Thank you in Advance. 

When you’re looking at the information for a repeater, the Input tone is the tone your radio must transmit to the repeater.

The Output tone is the tone the repeater transmits, and which your radio receives.  At first, you’re probably better off leaving it blank.  That will allow you to hear everything. Once you know your transmissions are being received by the repeater, then you can add a receiver tone to match the repeater‘s Output tone.

[Tommy2watts]

What is a PL tone. And how do you fine it. 

[wayoverthere]

Just now, Tommy2watts said:

What is a PL tone. And how do you fine it. 

You'd look at the listing for the repeater to see what tone it wants for the input.

On your radio/software, it may be called PL tone, or it may be called ctcss. My btech/baofeng stuff shows the menu item as "t-ctcs" (transmit ctcss tone). Some radios just use the straight tones (like 141.3), while others like many Midland and the wouxun kg935g use codes that correspond to the tones. For the latter, there is usually a table in the manual that shows what code matches which tone.

[SteveShannon]

2 minutes ago, Tommy2watts said:

What is a PL tone. And how do you fine it. 

The most common type of PL tone is also called CTCSS. There’s also DCS  

To determine it you ask a repeater owner or you can scan for it with some devices. 

[wayoverthere]

2 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

There’s also DCS  

Also good to mention, though maybe not as common...these may be called DCS, or DPL.

[KAF6045]

"PL" is derived from Motorola "Private Line" -- which is anything but private; a radio with no receive tone set will hear everything on the frequency.

To the rest of the world, it is CTCSS (Continuous Tone Coded Squelch System). As that long name implies, radios with a receive tone set will not open squelch unless the transmitter is sending the tone.

DCS (digital coded squelch) is a bit of a newer scheme -- rather than just a tone on a frequency that most receivers will filter out (so the listener doesn't hear the hum), DCS sends a digital sequence using some set of tones (1 and 0).

[Tommy2watts]

Thank you all for helping me to understand what DCS is and also CTCSS.

[Tommy2watts]

I forget to ask do you set your RX tone on off all the time. I know that if your going to use a reporter and the RX tone is in the list for that reporter you have to input that RX tone. I have the New KG 905-G. Love it so far. Also how do you use the Auto Scan to fine that anyone is  on the RGT channel. Any help would be great. 

Thanks WRME377

[SteveShannon]

2 minutes ago, Tommy2watts said:

I forget to ask do you set your RX tone on off all the time. I know that if your going to use a reporter and the RX tone is in the list for that reporter you have to input that RX tone. I have the New KG 905-G. Love it so far. Also how do you use the Auto Scan to fine that anyone is  on the RGT channel. Any help would be great. 

Thanks WRME377

No, you don’t have to program a receive tone. If you leave it blank you receive everything transmitted on that frequency. I usually recommend leaving the receive tone empty until everything else is working. 
 

[wayoverthere]

2 hours ago, Tommy2watts said:

I forget to ask do you set your RX tone on off all the time. I know that if your going to use a reporter and the RX tone is in the list for that reporter you have to input that RX tone.

 

2 hours ago, Sshannon said:

No, you don’t have to program a receive tone. If you leave it blank you receive everything transmitted on that frequency. I usually recommend leaving the receive tone empty until everything else is working. 
 

I will second @Sshannon...receive tone is optional. Imo, the easiest way to think of it is like a filter. If you set a tone, you only hear signals with a matching tone. (This is why you need a tone to use the repeater). Leaving the receive tone off is equivalent to no filter, so you hear all the signals that are stronger than your squelch setting. 

While it can be nice to filter to only hear a repeater on the repeater channel, not all repeaters use an output tone, and it can complicate initial setup because it's an additional variable to make sure is correct...confirm things are working at the simplest level first.

[Tommy2watts]

Again gentlemen, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. For someone that ran a BIG RADIO at one time. This GRMS is all new to an old OUTLAW. 

Thanks. WRME-377

[Lscott]

On 12/10/2022 at 12:56 AM, wayoverthere said:

 

I will second @Sshannon...receive tone is optional. Imo, the easiest way to think of it is like a filter. If you set a tone, you only hear signals with a matching tone. (This is why you need a tone to use the repeater). Leaving the receive tone off is equivalent to no filter, so you hear all the signals that are stronger than your squelch setting. 

While it can be nice to filter to only hear a repeater on the repeater channel, not all repeaters use an output tone, and it can complicate initial setup because it's an additional variable to make sure is correct...confirm things are working at the simplest level first.

As a matter of practice I don't program in RX tones unless there is something else on frequency that is interfering with the repeater's output.

[MichaelLAX]

On 12/8/2022 at 8:14 PM, KAF6045 said:

"PL" is derived from Motorola "Private Line" -- which is anything but private; a radio with no receive tone set will hear everything on the frequency.

Back in the days when Motorola's trademark for "Private Line" was still active, I used PL to mean: "Please Leave" instead! 

[Tommy2watts]

Can someone tell if you use the Shortwave. I know the KG905-G has both. And if so what is the differences between them. 

Thanks WRME377

[SteveShannon]

Just now, Tommy2watts said:

Can someone tell if you use the Shortwave. I know the KG905-G has both. And if so what is the differences between them. 

Thanks WRME377

Shortwave?  I don’t know what you mean by that. 
Are you talking about narrowband versus wideband?

[Tommy2watts]

1 minute ago, Sshannon said:

Shortwave?  I don’t know what you mean by that. 
Are you talking about narrowband versus wideband?

Sorry, I mean Narrowband. 

[SteveShannon]

1 minute ago, Tommy2watts said:

Sorry, I mean Narrowband. 

No problem. 
Here’s a video that addresses your question:

 

[MichaelLAX]

12 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

No problem. 
Here’s a video that "skimpily" addresses your question:

 

[Tommy2watts]

22 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

No problem. 
Here’s a video that addresses your question:

 

Thank you WROM258 I got it now. It's all about AUDIO

 

10 minutes ago, MichaelLAX said:

Thank You. One more thing. My radio (KG(905-G) swings ONE WATT DEAD key. Could I use a TEXAS STAR 667 behind it. LOL

Thank You.

 

[SteveShannon]

But I’d like to try and explain it in my words as well. 
The human ear has the ability to hear over a spread of frequencies from about 10-20 Hz on up to 15,000 Hz or even up to almost 20,000 Hz. High frequencies become more difficult to hear as you get older or suffer hearing loss. So that’s a bandwidth of say 20 Hz to 15,000 Hz or 14980 Hz. 
Speech can be pretty accurately reproduced in a much narrower bandwidth, but there’s still some information at the higher frequencies that help you discern different sounds, such as an ‘f’ sound from a “th” sound or even an ‘s’ sound. 
Now imagine if someone applied a band pass filter that starts at 300 Hz and ends at 6000 Hz. That’s narrowband. 
Compare that to a filter that allows 300-12500 Hz bandwidth. More sound information that can be encoded in that bandwidth. 
A wideband signal received by a narrowband receiver has to throw some of the information away, making the sound quality less, even though there’s more signal than it knows how to handle. 
A narrowband radio encodes less information but a wideband receiver receiving that information ends up a partially empty channel, which can sound weaker. 
But narrowband sounds okay when both ends are set to narrowband and wideband sounds incrementally better when both ends are set to wideband. 

[MichaelLAX]

16 minutes ago, Tommy2watts said:

Thank You. One more thing. My radio (KG(905-G) swings ONE WATT DEAD key. Could I use a TEXAS STAR 667 behind it. LOL

Thank You.

 

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Maybe TWO WATTS?