Better understanding how GMRS repeaters work

[WRQC527]

1 hour ago, Guest Templeton said:

That is amazing that a 5 watt GMRS radio could potentially transmit to orbit ! Does the ISS sometimes take random calls from GMRS operators?!

The ISS carries amateur radio equipment, and sometimes they chat with folks on Earth if their schedule allows it. No GMRS though. There's a few amateur radio satellites that are basically orbiting cross-band repeaters. Much too much to discuss here, but a visit to the AMSAT website is worth your time. But again, no, there are no GMRS satellites in space. It would be cool though. 

[SteveShannon]

5 minutes ago, WRQC527 said:

The ISS carries amateur radio equipment, and sometimes they chat with folks on Earth if their schedule allows it. No GMRS though. There's a few amateur radio satellites that are basically orbiting cross-band repeaters. Much too much to discuss here, but a visit to the AMSAT website is worth your time. But again, no, there are no GMRS satellites in space. It would be cool though. 

How do you know I haven’t done a MARS-CAP mod on Oscar?

[WRQC527]

9 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

MARS-CAP mod on Oscar?

That could get them in serious trouble with the United Federation Of Planets Communications Commission. I hear they're much more strict than the FCC!

[SteveShannon]

9 minutes ago, Guest Templeton said:

Thanks, good info. And, yes, I understand that FRS does not utilize any repeaters and that is has lower wattage than GMRS.

I have applied for a GMRS license, just waiting for it to get approved. (And, boy, a lot of steps to that process!) Is GMRS on the UHF frequency band? So, in your own experience, you have seen foliage and/or the seasons noticeably affecting your GMRS range?

I understand the different send/receive frequencies used on repeaters. But I do not at all understand the how/what/when/why of the usage of tones and GMRS repeaters. Is there a good thread (or video) you could direct me to that explains all that to a total newbie?

Yes, 3-30 MHz is HF; 30-300 MHz is VHF; 300 MHz to 3000 MHz is UHF. GMRS uses channels in 462 and 467 MHz ranges.

I’ve seen my satellite receiver fade out during heavy rains and snows. The higher the frequency the more moisture affects it. I haven’t range tested my GMRS radios in the woods.

People use receiver tones to filter the signals that are reproduced. So for instance if there were several people using their radios and i didn’t want to hear them, but I wanted to hear from you, I would set a tone on my receiver and tell you the tone so you could set it for your transmitter. Then, when you transmit using that tone (tones are usually under 300 Hz) my receiver will reproduce your transmitted sounds after filtering out the tone you sent. 
But if I want to hear everything transmitted on that frequency all I have to do is remove my receive tone. Nothing will be filtered. 
It’s the same way with a repeater. The receiver half of the repeater only transfers audio to the transmitter that have the right tones when received.

[Guest Templeton]

Ah, thanks for the info about tones. And I also looked at this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_Tone-Coded_Squelch_System

Once I get my GMRS radios, I know that I can just listen to my nearest repeater (with tones off) to find out if I can get signals from the repeater. But is there an easy test (that you can explain to a newbie) to test and confirm if can successfully transmit to the repeater?

 

[kmcdonaugh]

41 minutes ago, Guest Templeton said:

Ah, thanks for the info about tones. And I also looked at this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_Tone-Coded_Squelch_System

Once I get my GMRS radios, I know that I can just listen to my nearest repeater (with tones off) to find out if I can get signals from the repeater. But is there an easy test (that you can explain to a newbie) to test and confirm if can successfully transmit to the repeater?

 

Most if not all repeaters will have a "squelch tail". I've heard different people call it different things. But if you can receive the repeater, when you transmit to the repeater, you will hear this "squelch tail" at the end of your transmission. Some repeaters have certain noises on their squelch tails, such as beeps, and some have none. That is why you will hear people "kerchunk" a repeater. They are just testing that they can hit it. When you unkey your mic, if you don't hear this squelch tail, you aren't hitting the repeater. It is kind of hard to explain this sound as it can be different on every repeater. One repeater in my area does a small double beep, and another one doesn't so it just sounds like a quick burst of static at the end of my transmission. 

Side Note: The squelch tail is actually the end of your own transmission. due to distance and time through the duplexer, you receive your own transmission, just a few hundredths of a second behind.

[SteveShannon]

28 minutes ago, kmcdonaugh said:

Most if not all repeaters will have a "squelch tail". I've heard different people call it different things. But if you can receive the repeater, when you transmit to the repeater, you will hear this "squelch tail" at the end of your transmission. Some repeaters have certain noises on their squelch tails, such as beeps, and some have none. That is why you will hear people "kerchunk" a repeater. They are just testing that they can hit it. When you unkey your mic, if you don't hear this squelch tail, you aren't hitting the repeater. It is kind of hard to explain this sound as it can be different on every repeater. One repeater in my area does a small double beep, and another one doesn't so it just sounds like a quick burst of static at the end of my transmission. 

Side Note: The squelch tail is actually the end of your own transmission. due to distance and time through the duplexer, you receive your own transmission, just a few hundredths of a second behind.

Many repeaters have some "hang-time" programmed into them to continue transmitting for a short time after a person transmitting to the repeater stops transmitting.  This is clearly audible and an indication that you have reached the repeater and that you're using the right tone.

[Guest Nashville,Tn]

Are gmrs radios used much anymore ?

[wayoverthere]

3 hours ago, Guest Nashville,Tn said:

Are gmrs radios used much anymore ?

The growth of licenses (and site users) would seem to say yes. One of the ham clubs in my area even added a gmrs repeater, likely to give the hams a way to communicate with non-ham family.

[WRQC527]

3 hours ago, Guest Nashville,Tn said:

Are gmrs radios used much anymore ?

Oh yes. I picked up my license last year so I could contact my wife when I'm out of cell coverage in the local mountains. I'm a ham, she's not really interested, so the no-test-one-license-for-the-whole-fam-damily-for-a-penny-a-day works for us. Also, a lot of off-roaders, overlanders, etc, are using it. Maybe there's someone like that who frequents this site who can elaborate.

[wayoverthere]

1 hour ago, wayoverthere said:

The growth of licenses (and site users) would seem to say yes. One of the ham clubs in my area even added a gmrs repeater, likely to give the hams a way to communicate with non-ham family.

As a quick addition to this, I licensed up in July of 2019 for a family trip, and received a WRDT callsign. I did a quick check of ULS just now and found the sequence is up to WRWF, and there were 1,390 GMRS  licenses with a grant date in the past week alone.

[nokones]

9 hours ago, wayoverthere said:

As a quick addition to this, I licensed up in July of 2019 for a family trip, and received a WRDT callsign. I did a quick check of ULS just now and found the sequence is up to WRWF, and there were 1,390 GMRS  licenses with a grant date in the past week alone.

I don't believe the series of letters used in the callsign is inclusive to Part 95 stations only.

[SteveShannon]

According to the FCC license search utility, 1221 GMRS licenses were granted in the past week, 5,165 in the last 30 days, 65,178 in the past year.

[wayoverthere]

2 hours ago, nokones said:

I don't believe the series of letters used in the callsign is inclusive to Part 95 stations only.

I kind of suspected it wasn't 100% indicative, since I hit some spots on the sequence that weren't coming up in a gmrs license search...that's why I went for raw grant numbers too.

[Templeton]

Thanks for answering my earlier questions. Got the fcc license and am now just waiting upon some radios I ordered. Then I will test out my real world ranges.

I have read the brief fcc rules regarding call signs, but what is the typical and good etiquette for saying our family call sign when on the air? This would be for 2 parties talking via simplex and/or via repeater. When are the recommended times to transmit a call sign if there is an extended time of communication like, say, 30 minutes, but with only a few of 5 second long transmissions every 5-10 minutes?

[KAF6045]

For sporadic /short/ transmissions, where listeners can not tell that the conversation is on-going... ID at end of transmission is safest -- otherwise you run the risk of some third party taking over the frequency just when your 15-minute ID period comes up..

For those short, spread-out, transmissions, you'll probably be IDing anyways: <call>-<unit2> from <call>-<unit1>, I'm leaving the store now

[Templeton]

Thanks, good info.

But, going with doing the optimal thing for the fcc and for good etiquette too, if there are 2 members of the same family communicating with one another (so both of them are on the same GMRS certificate), do both members just say the identical call signs when they do those 'short and spread out' transmissions?

[KAF6045]

3 minutes ago, Templeton said:

Thanks, good info.

But, going with doing the optimal thing for the fcc and for good etiquette too, if there are 2 members of the same family communicating with one another (so both of them are on the same GMRS certificate), do both members just say the identical call signs when they do those 'short and spread out' transmissions?

One: there is only ONE name on the GMRS license; the regulations permit "immediate family" to use the call sign but all responsibility for correct usage is on the named licensee.

Two: when multiple members are using that regulation, they all identity with the SAME call sign -- and each MUST ID (as each radio is considered a "station"). But common practice is to append some notation identifying which member is operating which "station" (KAF6045/HT1 from KAF6045/mobile...; KAF6045/mobile, KAF6045/HT1...)

[Templeton]

Thanks, is there a more extensive thread somewhere on this site or forum that explains all this in more detail with lots of examples?

[WRQC527]

16 minutes ago, Templeton said:

Thanks, is there a more extensive thread somewhere on this site or forum that explains all this in more detail with lots of examples?

This is already the single most extensive thread on this site. If you're communicating with someone else who is covered by your license, they need to ID with that license. That's it. They can add their name, a number, a letter, a location, whatever they want, as long as they ID with that license. Simple.