best ⅝ wave GMRS high gain NMO antenna

[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

I'm not worried as much about cost as I am having the best long range NMO no ground plane GMRS antenna I can get, prefer at least ⅝ wave.

Nothing under 5db gain and it should also be able to do 2m. A plus if it can do: 136-180 VHF • 219-250 VHF • 350-512 UHF • 700-960 UHF quad-band, with GMRS being the necessity.

I've already wasted money on the Diamond and Tram junk, now I'm wanting the best. I'm using a magnet mount, as a necessity as well, albeit I'm open for a better model of it as well. I'm looking for at least 5" magnet for stability. Going on a leased Nissan Rogue, can't be permanent mount.

[WRZM228]

On 11/16/2023 at 11:34 AM, kidphc said:

Higher gain normally is going to cost you bandwidth.

⁵/8 over 5/8th best I have had for gmrs was my laird. But only going to do between 450-470.

Big thing here is the more bands you add. The harder it gets, because more comprimises are added. So one band ends up at the bad end and one of the other bands is acceptable, then the last band becomes meh. Best = least comprimises.

Closet to what to what you want is going to be something on the lines like the nmo 150/450/800 or nmo150/460/700. Note no 200mhz. They are also designed for the public safety focus (ems/fire/police). They have acceptable (depends on what think is acceptable) swr for amateur services. No, they are not tuneable.

There is the 2x24sr. Very stiff, meh for me at least performance wise.


You can use diplexers/triplexers and separate antennas? Are some bands listen only?


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I just bought a Laird antenna on magna mount. Its all the way to the red on GMRS. Anything under that frequency is dead on 1.02 It feels like the whip that I have feels short or not design for this. Not enough pull to adjust. However the magnetic base is superb. The cable is LMR-240 with a very strong magnet for its size no wonder its expensive. Any takes?

B4503: 450-470 MHz Mobile Base Coil NMO Mount Antenna- Metalic Ground Plane Required

 

 

 

[kidphc]

I don't remember a tuning chart for it. But you should be in the middle of the factory tune.

What is "red"? What are you using to analyze it?

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[WRZM228]

swr

[kidphc]

swr

Readings? I was actually asking what meter.

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[WRZM228]

4 minutes ago, kidphc said:

Readings? I was actually asking what meter.

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the reading is 5 and the lowest after adjustment is 4 on SWR on GMRS Frequency.

Below the 450 frequency is perfect! 1.02 SWR

[WRZM228]

I'll just buy a different antenna in this caliber.

[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

31 minutes ago, WRZM228 said:

I just bought a Laird antenna on magna mount. Its all the way to the red on GMRS. Anything under that frequency is dead on 1.02 It feels like the whip that I have feels short or not design for this. Not enough pull to adjust. However the magnetic base is superb. The cable is LMR-240 with a very strong magnet for its size no wonder its expensive. Any takes?

B4503: 450-470 MHz Mobile Base Coil NMO Mount Antenna- Metalic Ground Plane Required

 

 

 

The 4505CN is more aligned with GMRS then the 4503, which is more towards 70cm. Which is why you're not getting as good a signal reading. I've been researching this particular line for a few days now and leaning towards the (B)B4505CN due to this. There's a Larsen 405 that's similar but, I'm leaning more towards the Laird.

[kidphc]

the reading is 5 and the lowest after adjustment is 4 on SWR on GMRS Frequency.
Below the 450 frequency is perfect! 1.02 SWR

Yeah something isn't right... it's not even in the specified ranges.

How big is the ground plane? Aka where on the roof is it stuck to?

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[WRZM228]

11 minutes ago, CyborgAlienWRYG738 said:

The 4505CN is more aligned with GMRS then the 4503, which is more towards 70cm. Which is why you're not getting as good a signal reading. I've been researching this particular line for a few days now and leaning towards the (B)B4505CN due to this. There's a Larsen 405 that's similar but, I'm leaning more towards the Laird.

Yes. It feels like there is something missing like the length of the whip. It needs to go longer which this antenna youre showing is 3 feet vs the one I got was  half the length. It would have been a blast. I have owned different antennas from original K40, audio king, wilson of the 80's. The Laird is total craftsmanship! I'll tell them to send me this. I'll ask them if I can use the same magnamount. This thing is smaller than the ones I used before but strong. Stronger than the K40 magnamount.

 

[WRZM228]

This new base antenna is really good. I cant believe that walkie-talkie can even travel that far. Cant wait to setup my base radio tomorrow for I have to buy a regulated power supply an its a good thing they'll deliver soon.

[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

58 minutes ago, WRZM228 said:

Yes. It feels like there is something missing like the length of the whip. It needs to go longer which this antenna youre showing is 3 feet vs the one I got was  half the length. It would have been a blast. I have owned different antennas from original K40, audio king, wilson of the 80's. The Laird is total craftsmanship! I'll tell them to send me this. I'll ask them if I can use the same magnamount. This thing is smaller than the ones I used before but strong. Stronger than the K40 magnamount.

 

The B4505CN doesn't require the ground plain which is what the N means, the B4505C is the same antenna which would work with the ground plain mount your using. ENG_DS_ANT-DS-Mobile-Load-Coil_B3.pdf

[WRZM228]

28 minutes ago, CyborgAlienWRYG738 said:

The B4505CN doesn't require the ground plain which is what the N means, the B4505C is the same antenna which would work with the ground plain mount your using. ENG_DS_ANT-DS-Mobile-Load-Coil_B3.pdf

Some guy just emailed me from another company about the antenna and he said i need to follow the chart and cut it. I told him not feeling confident doing that in this case. The more I pull the antenna, that's where the SWR is going down. I notice alot of people even experienced ham guys and dealers are having a rough time on GMRS antennas.

With the President radio I was able to sweep a Francis antenna no more than 1:4 from 10 to 12 meter which is a very wide frequency. I got it mounted perfect with a spring quick release. Its just too bad, I drive this pickup truck maybe once or twice a year just for home improvement use. 

 

[kidphc]

The 4505 can be tuned. The recommend lengths for the parts below the enclosed collimator coil (where cut is ) is printed on the bag.

The 4503 can be tuned a bit. First check the bottom of the coil to make sure they sent you the right one, and not miss packaged. If that fails contact the vendor. You maybe able to add a Laird spring, and cut the antenna to get it close to where you want it.

If all else fails you can buy some .150  (i think that is the right size) nitinol wire/piano wire or bug a HAM for left over whips from over cutting. Then cut it first to larger then the original whip and tune for the mid of the GMRS band. With nitinol you will have a very flexible whip that will be near indestructible.  Nitinol is basically, what laird cause a super flex, STI and signal stick/signal stalk make their antennas out of. Do not user wire cutters, it will get destroyed. Best to use a cut off wheel, still takes a while. Just be aware without a corona ball glued on it will easily take an eye out.

[WRZM228]

is that what the ball is for and nothing to do with global transmission?

[kidphc]

15 minutes ago, WRZM228 said:

Some guy just emailed me from another company about the antenna and he said i need to follow the chart and cut it. I told him not feeling confident doing that in this case. The more I pull the antenna, that's where the SWR is going down. I notice alot of people even experienced ham guys and dealers are having a rough time on GMRS antennas.

It is rough for us Hams because the 70cm and GMRS bands are to close to use a duplexer for separate antennas. But far enough apart that anything that cover both bands, that we either sacrifice part of each band, or have silly SWR at the ends of both bands. Personally, I shoot for about 450-453 Mhz, when tuning them to try to get the most bandwidth. Usually, start ending up with 1.67-1.75 on the band edges. Acceptable, for a really compromised antenna.

Easiest route is to go 1/4 wave for either band and usually will cover both bands with below 1.6 SWR. Lowest SWR will end up being in the commercial band.  But they are the broadest bandwith designs you will find. I don't use them because the roof rack shadows too much of the antenna, I end up with worse performance then with a 5/8 wave and coil design.

[SteveShannon]

1 minute ago, WRZM228 said:

is that what the ball is for and nothing to do with global transmission?

They help prevent the buildup of high voltage on sharp edges.

https://www.antennapartsoutlet.com/products/maco®-corona-balls

[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

28 minutes ago, WRZM228 said:

Some guy just emailed me from another company about the antenna and he said i need to follow the chart and cut it. I told him not feeling confident doing that in this case. The more I pull the antenna, that's where the SWR is going down. I notice alot of people even experienced ham guys and dealers are having a rough time on GMRS antennas.

With the President radio I was able to sweep a Francis antenna no more than 1:4 from 10 to 12 meter which is a very wide frequency. I got it mounted perfect with a spring quick release. Its just too bad, I drive this pickup truck maybe once or twice a year just for home improvement use. 

CB and GMRS are way different and require way different antennas...

Trim chart+:

ENG_DS_DS-ANT-B4505CN_1020-TE_A1.pdf

[WRZM228]

I have 2 choices.. Get an extra longer whip just like what the the other guy is suggesting. Its .100 of an inch obviously medium cast stainless steel family. 

Or I return this and get the B4505. which I think sounds better.

[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

13 minutes ago, kidphc said:

It is rough for us Hams because the 70cm and GMRS bands are to close to use a duplexer for separate antennas. But far enough apart that anything that cover both bands, that we either sacrifice part of each band, or have silly SWR at the ends of both bands. Personally, I shoot for about 450-453 Mhz, when tuning them to try to get the most bandwidth. Usually, start ending up with 1.67-1.75 on the band edges. Acceptable, for a really compromised antenna.

Easiest route is to go 1/4 wave for either band and usually will cover both bands with below 1.6 SWR. Lowest SWR will end up being in the commercial band.  But they are the broadest bandwith designs you will find. I don't use them because the roof rack shadows too much of the antenna, I end up with worse performance then with a 5/8 wave and coil design.

Yeah I was looking for a widebander but they're just ¼ waves and not what I require. I need at least a ⅝ wave to reach the repeaters around me. The more the gain the better. 

[WRZM228]

1 minute ago, CyborgAlienWRYG738 said:

Yeah I was looking for a widebander but they're just ¼ waves and not what I require. I need at least a ⅝ wave to reach the repeaters around me. The more the gain the better. 

what about home base antenna?

[WRZM228]

On 12/1/2023 at 12:14 PM, kidphc said:

It is rough for us Hams because the 70cm and GMRS bands are to close to use a duplexer for separate antennas. But far enough apart that anything that cover both bands, that we either sacrifice part of each band, or have silly SWR at the ends of both bands. Personally, I shoot for about 450-453 Mhz, when tuning them to try to get the most bandwidth. Usually, start ending up with 1.67-1.75 on the band edges. Acceptable, for a really compromised antenna.

Easiest route is to go 1/4 wave for either band and usually will cover both bands with below 1.6 SWR. Lowest SWR will end up being in the commercial band.  But they are the broadest bandwith designs you will find. I don't use them because the roof rack shadows too much of the antenna, I end up with worse performance then with a 5/8 wave and coil design.

BTW:

what do you think about Alinco?

[kidphc]

Sometimes...

Switching between 1/4, 1/2, 5/8 over 5/8 (4505). Even tried a ³/4 wave.

Each had its pros and cons. The 4505 reached the furthest. But worked the worse in some areas, due to the rolly terrain here.

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[kidphc]

BTW:
what do you think about Alinco DR-35T?

Never had one so can't comment. But Alinco makes decent amateur gear.

Really like the motorola xtl5k. Need to swap it out for a Harris 100m in the garage. Stopped due to the triplexers I want range between $200-600.

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[WRZM228]

On 12/1/2023 at 12:34 PM, kidphc said:

Never had one so can't comment.

Really like the motorola xtl5k. Need to swap it out for a Harris 100m in the garage. Stopped due to the triplexers I want range between $200-600.

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I used the base station where I bought it. Dxxn.. All the way 9db over 40+ miles! You wouldn't even need to add a kicker...  

[WRZM228]

9 minutes ago, kidphc said:

Never had one so can't comment. But Alinco makes decent amateur gear.

Really like the motorola xtl5k. Need to swap it out for a Harris 100m in the garage. Stopped due to the triplexers I want range between $200-600.

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Is there a way I can attach and use my old D104 silver eagle as my home base mic instead of the factory alien head controller mics? or I'm asking for a miracle?