best ⅝ wave GMRS high gain NMO antenna

[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

I'm not worried as much about cost as I am having the best long range NMO no ground plane GMRS antenna I can get, prefer at least ⅝ wave.

Nothing under 5db gain and it should also be able to do 2m. A plus if it can do: 136-180 VHF • 219-250 VHF • 350-512 UHF • 700-960 UHF quad-band, with GMRS being the necessity.

I've already wasted money on the Diamond and Tram junk, now I'm wanting the best. I'm using a magnet mount, as a necessity as well, albeit I'm open for a better model of it as well. I'm looking for at least 5" magnet for stability. Going on a leased Nissan Rogue, can't be permanent mount.

[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

The best antenna to do what I'm looking for is the Laird B4505CN with the GR8PI magnet mount. It's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for all the help

[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

1 hour ago, WRZM228 said:

I wanna buy the same one for emergency. Is it a one piece with magnamount?

 

The Lil Wil is a mag mount, yes, for CB is it 1 piece, not really the whip separates from the base, it's adjustable and you really should set the SWR when you use it the first time. I've used them for years for my CBs in my personal vehicles because of how great they are and easily movable. If you need one that can separate easily from the whip, the 1000 even comes with a cover for the base thread mount to keep it dry in carwashes.

[Sshannon]

One thing Joel is correct about is that a person must read their manual correctly. 
The Anytone at-778uv is a 25 watt radio. The factory fuses are rated for 10 amps, which is less than the current many power ports are fused to handle. 
The section that recommends 12 amps (3.2) has nothing to do with installation in a vehicle. It’s specifically making a recommendation for the capacity of a base station power supply. That makes sense because you don’t want to always run at the upper limit of an AC/DC power supply. 
 

@WRUU653, I’m sorry you got pulled into this. It’s obvious that Joel has a problem dealing with people and it’s regrettable that he’s now directing his ire towards you. 

[kidphc]

Higher gain normally is going to cost you bandwidth.

⁵/8 over 5/8th best I have had for gmrs was my laird. But only going to do between 450-470.

Big thing here is the more bands you add. The harder it gets, because more comprimises are added. So one band ends up at the bad end and one of the other bands is acceptable, then the last band becomes meh. Best = least comprimises.

Closet to what to what you want is going to be something on the lines like the nmo 150/450/800 or nmo150/460/700. Note no 200mhz. They are also designed for the public safety focus (ems/fire/police). They have acceptable (depends on what think is acceptable) swr for amateur services. No, they are not tuneable.

There is the 2x24sr. Very stiff, meh for me at least performance wise.


You can use diplexers/triplexers and separate antennas? Are some bands listen only?


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[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

On 11/16/2023 at 2:34 PM, kidphc said:

Higher gain normally is going to cost you bandwidth.

⁵/8 over 5/8th best I have had for gmrs was my laird. But only going to do between 450-470.

Big thing here is the more bands you add. The harder it gets, because more comprimises are added. So one band ends up at the bad end and one of the other bands is acceptable, then the last band becomes meh. Best = least comprimises.

Closet to what to what you want is going to be something on the lines like the nmo 150/450/800 or nmo150/460/700. Note no 200mhz. They are also designed for the public safety focus (ems/fire/police). They have acceptable (depends on what think is acceptable) swr for amateur services. No, they are tuneable.

You can use diplexers/triplexers and separate antennas? Are some bands listen only?

 

I'd rather just use 1 antenna so as to keep the roof as clear of scratches as possible. Most bands are "listen only" just GMRS is transmit band and requires the most gain and best signal response for distance. The rest are relatively local frequencies.

[tcp2525]

I'll second what @kidphc says, but would like to add that using any of these "all band" is a compromise. Also, stick with a good quality commercial grade antenna manufacturer such as Laird or Larsen. I've used Larsen for decades and never had a failure and they performed really well. On my truck, I use a dual band antenna for 2m/70cm that been in service for over 10 years. I recently added an NMO antenna for GMRS that is of poor manufactured quality made by Midland. Bottom line, stick with quality commercial grade antennas and use separate antennas for multiple bands and radios.

[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

1 hour ago, tcp2525 said:

I'll second what @kidphc says, but would like to add that using any of these "all band" is a compromise. Also, stick with a good quality commercial grade antenna manufacturer such as Laird or Larsen. I've used Larsen for decades and never had a failure and they performed really well. On my truck, I use a dual band antenna for 2m/70cm that been in service for over 10 years. I recently added an NMO antenna for GMRS that is of poor manufactured quality made by Midland. Bottom line, stick with quality commercial grade antennas and use separate antennas for multiple bands and radios.

I thought Midland used Larson to make that antenna, must've been Motorola I was thinking of.

[tcp2525]

12 minutes ago, CyborgAlienWRYG738 said:

I thought Midland used Larson to make that antenna, must've been Motorola I was thinking of.

Midland=Chinese Junk!

[WRWE456]

Diamond and Tram were reputable brands last I knew. I have a few Diamonds and they work great.

[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

1 hour ago, tcp2525 said:

Midland=Chinese Junk!

LOL

[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

8 minutes ago, WRWE456 said:

Diamond and Tram were reputable brands last I knew. I have a few Diamonds and they work great.

Tram = Chinese Junk

Diamond is getting that way too from my experience. 

Larson is supposed to be the best, with Laird, Not sure about Comet heard varying opinions on it.

[tcp2525]

5 minutes ago, WRWE456 said:

Diamond and Tram were reputable brands last I knew. I have a few Diamonds and they work great.

I've had a few Diamond antennas over the years and found them to be well built and performed really well. I have a Tram 1486 on the side of my tower fed with 1/2" Heliax and it is okay considering the size and price. I guess you gotta consider its intended use. I'd rather use a StationMaster for GMRS, but I don't have the 20' space needed to mount it to the side of the tower. Once the second tower goes up I'll retire the 1486.

[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

3 minutes ago, tcp2525 said:

I've had a few Diamond antennas over the years and found them to be well built and performed really well. I have a Tram 1486 on the side of my tower fed with 1/2" Heliax and it is okay considering the size and price. I guess you gotta consider its intended use. I'd rather use a StationMaster for GMRS, but I don't have the 20' space needed to mount it to the side of the tower. Once the second tower goes up I'll retire the 1486.

Back in the day, they both used to be good brands but, lately, both have gone downhill, I have both currently and having issues with both just getting them to have good SWR's could be my meter, could use some help testing to see how far off mine is. It's a a Nissei RS-50 digital meter, brand new, supposedly but, the mail went over 1000 miles out of route to get to me and the box was crushed it came in but, it's box was in good shape. I dunno. I hate there's nowhere like the CB Shop's back in the day, to go and have it checked out with their equipment.

[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

This is what I'm getting from my Tram connected to my Wouxun KG-UV9GX. I'm using extensions to get it thru my window to my shed roof about 30' away. I am getting the same exact readings with it directly connected to the mag mount wire.

 

[wayoverthere]

On 11/18/2023 at 11:17 AM, CyborgAlienWRYG738 said:

Tram = Chinese Junk

Diamond is getting that way too from my experience. 

Larson is supposed to be the best, with Laird, Not sure about Comet heard varying opinions on it.

Comet has been solid for me so far. The 2x4sr isn't super on swr at the high end, tradeoff for the wide bandwidth. Laird have been good as well, and would be my go-to for single band stuff.

Diamond..the HT antenna has been good. The mobile (nr72b, iirc), I can't get a decent number on 2m for anything, mag mount, hard mount, bracket, whatever. It's currently on the shelf...good for 70cm limited clearance I guess.

I suspect the older Midland 3db whip (5/8 wave mxta10) was a contracted manufacture by someone commercial, it looks very similar to the lairds in build.

I also have one Browning (possibly before they were merged with Tram? Not sure) seems to be good quality and holding up well; 2x5/8 wave, with 410-490 bandwidth.

[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

36 minutes ago, wayoverthere said:

Comet has been solid for me so far. The 2x4sr isn't super on swr at the high end, tradeoff for the wide bandwidth. Laird have been good as well, and would be my go-to for single band stuff.

Diamond..the HT antenna has been good. The mobile (nr72b, iirc), I can't get a decent number on 2m for anything, mag mount, hard mount, bracket, whatever. It's currently on the shelf...good for 70cm limited clearance I guess.

I suspect the older Midland 3db whip (5/8 wave mxta10) was a contracted manufacture by someone commercial, it looks very similar to the lairds in build.

I also have one Browning (possibly before they were merged with Tram? Not sure) seems to be good quality and holding up well; 2x5/8 wave, with 410-490 bandwidth.

I have the Diamond NR73BNMO, (found here: https://www.buytwowayradios.com/diamond-antenna-nr73bnmo-4167.html), and the MR-77, (found here: https://www.buytwowayradios.com/diamond-antenna-mr77.html), that are either also not getting anything near 1.5:1 or in the case of the MR-77 is too weak being only 3dB gain, although it's better than 1.5:1. I'm not saying they're junk just their equipment isn't as available, (Diamond Antenna mag mounts are hard to get,) or not as good as can be, (only 5dB gain is best they can do on mobile antennas, NR73BNMO.) Also, the compatible, (according to Buy 2Way Radios,) antenna, SRJNR73BNMO antenna doesn't exist, and according to Diamond Antenna's US website, never did. Then again their website is missing a lot of information. I'm also using the 5½" mag mount from Tram, which isn't the best for GMRS either, it will be updated as soon as I get the chance to the Chrome Larson one along with the Chrome antenna that matches GMRS signals better.

[wayoverthere]

Honestly, the only ones covering gmrs that I've seen with a gain over 5db (even measuring in dBi, which will post a higher number than dBd) is midland's mxta26 at 6db and being a 5/8 over 5/8 wave, and the previously mentioned comet 2x4sr. The key with the Midland is getting it direct from Midland, not via amazon. The only complaints I've seen with that antenna were people that got it via amazon, and got used/damaged/modified returns.

I found a couple 2m/70cm mobile antennas on dx engineering with gains over 7dbi on 70cm (comet sbb-7 is one), but I'd be afraid of the swr jumping pretty fast once you passed 450mhz. I know that Laird I have rated for 430-450 climbs fast.

In the end, I mostly ran 2 antennas and 2 radios; one for 2m & 70cm, and 1 for gmrs. I currently have almost all of it down, though, as I'm transitioning between vehicles....cleared out the old and still getting things set up on the new (and waiting on a recent radio purchase, too).

[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

1 hour ago, wayoverthere said:

 

In the end, I mostly ran 2 antennas and 2 radios; one for 2m & 70cm, and 1 for gmrs. I currently have almost all of it down, though, as I'm transitioning between vehicles....cleared out the old and still getting things set up on the new (and waiting on a recent radio purchase, too).

What's your current setup and what are you changing to? I'm curious because I am in the market and want to make a purchase soon, probably after New Year's, and I'm trying to decide if I want a TYT MD-9600 or something else, I really want something that's going to last, be as clear as possible and be a superhet. I'm looking forward to getting my Tech around then if I decide to go ahead with it and don't get too frustrated with it. I was looking at the Wouxun KG-UV920P but, I'm wanting to go with DMR as well. I can't afford Motorola money right now but, Wouxun KG-1000G+, isn't out of the equation, price wise. Midland I've never had any luck with, so I'm not interested in their radios, though I was looking at the MXT-500, I don't know if it will last more than a warranty period. I don't think I want a Quad-Bander like the MD-9800 or UV980P, I can use CB for the 10m I want to talk on. Not really interested in 6m. 6GHz maybe...

[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

1 hour ago, wayoverthere said:

Honestly, the only ones covering gmrs that I've seen with a gain over 5db (even measuring in dBi, which will post a higher number than dBd) is midland's mxta26 at 6db and being a 5/8 over 5/8 wave, and the previously mentioned comet 2x4sr. The key with the Midland is getting it direct from Midland, not via amazon. The only complaints I've seen with that antenna were people that got it via amazon, and got used/damaged/modified returns.

I found a couple 2m/70cm mobile antennas on dx engineering with gains over 7dbi on 70cm (comet sbb-7 is one), but I'd be afraid of the swr jumping pretty fast once you passed 450mhz. I know that Laird I have rated for 430-450 climbs fast.

Back to the antennas, I have been looking at a couple of Laird's that were tuned to 480 on the UHF band, which should put their main freq near the 165 mark I am looking for, if not, it shouldn't be hard to hit. The bands are more towards the NOAA Freqs but, that's ok too, for now. Although I think one was 138-148 and 400-480. The UHF was 5.? dB so I guess it's sufficient, I have to get something with distance in mind because there's nothing local to me. Repeaters or family. I need to use repeaters to talk to family...

[wayoverthere]

53 minutes ago, CyborgAlienWRYG738 said:

What's your current setup and what are you changing to? I'm curious because I am in the market and want to make a purchase soon, probably after New Year's, and I'm trying to decide if I want a TYT MD-9600 or something else, I really want something that's going to last, be as clear as possible and be a superhet. I'm looking forward to getting my Tech around then if I decide to go ahead with it and don't get too frustrated with it. I was looking at the Wouxun KG-UV920P but, I'm wanting to go with DMR as well. I can't afford Motorola money right now but, Wouxun KG-1000G+, isn't out of the equation, price wise. Midland I've never had any luck with, so I'm not interested in their radios, though I was looking at the MXT-500, I don't know if it will last more than a warranty period. I don't think I want a Quad-Bander like the MD-9800 or UV980P, I can use CB for the 10m I want to talk on. Not really interested in 6m. 6GHz maybe...

What was in the old truck was an Icom 2730a/Comet SBB-5 on a fender mount and Anytone AT779UV/MXTA10 on a mag mount, centered on the roof for GMRS.  I've changed antennas a few times; used a mag mount prior to the fender mount (centered), which at various times ran the 2x4sr, 1/4 wave signal stalk, Comet SBB-1, and a Laird BB4303 (a small 5/8 wave for 430-450mhz, with the 2nd for GMRS offset to the passenger side for GMRS (which has also carried a Browning BR-1713-BS (double 5/8 wave with a 410-490mhz bandwidth).  I also occasionally ran an old radio shack CB and mag mount antenna, offset to the driver's side.

(note: when i first got my tech, i was running a dual certified Vertex VX4207 for ham & GMRS, hence some of the single band antennas)

Current plan: incoming FTM-500 + SBB-5 on the a fender mount; haven't figured out mounting for a second antenna yet, so GMRS is on hold, but it'll likely be the Anytone/MXTA10 combo again there unless i can find space for the vertex.  GMRS is fairly quiet in my area, unfortunately, much more of the "bring your own contacts" situation.  Icom is currently in my shack, but will go to better half's car (with a mag mount and the signal stalk), and the FTM400 that WAS headed for the truck will stay on shack duty. 

I've been eyeing  UV920P too (mainly for 220 capability), but at least at current discounts, it's not a big jump to yaesu (FTM-6000R is currently $259, vs $239 for the 920p).  There doesn't seem to be a TON of options for DMR mobiles; the Anytone 578 is a common choice, and the bluetooth display/mic simplifies the mounting/mic situation some.  If you're okay diving into commercial software, maybe consider a Vertex VXD-7200; this one is a 403-470mhz, so good for ham bands, and it'll be part 90 approved (though i don't think this one 95a certified).  if you've looked at motorola's XPR line, it should look pretty familiar, especially the power and antenna connectors.  I have no experience with TYT, so I can't say what their reliability is like.

42 minutes ago, CyborgAlienWRYG738 said:

Back to the antennas, I have been looking at a couple of Laird's that were tuned to 480 on the UHF band, which should put their main freq near the 165 mark I am looking for, if not, it shouldn't be hard to hit. The bands are more towards the NOAA Freqs but, that's ok too, for now. Although I think one was 138-148 and 400-480. The UHF was 5.? dB so I guess it's sufficient, I have to get something with distance in mind because there's nothing local to me. Repeaters or family. I need to use repeaters to talk to family...

If you aren't using it to transmit, having it tuned close should be more than good enough. Terrain between you and the repeater, and where the repeater is sited will play a big part in getting through. I've managed 60+ mile shots on that "3db" MXTA10, that or longer on 5 watt handhelds (both GMRS and 70cm), and 120ish over the valley on the Comet 2x4SR (on 70cm with 15 watts). have also responded to a couple SOTA (summits on the air) calls with the comet on 146.520, providing contacts for people 70-80 miles away near the national parks.

 

IMO, the KG1000G is the radio to get if you want a full power GMRS mobile.  Midland used to be solid, though seem to be having a few issues with some newer batches, my biggest issue is (lack of) flexibility/features. I and a couple others haven't had good luck with the Btech mobiles. Remote heads are awesome for flexibility in mobile installs,too, which leads back to running GMRS separate, do a single band antenna appropriate for that (which will still receive NOAA alright) and set up 2m/70cm separately when you're go for that.

[kidphc]

Remote heads are awesome for flexibility in mobile installs,too, which leads back to running GMRS separate, do a single band antenna appropriate for that (which will still receive NOAA alright) and set up 2m/70cm separately when you're go for that.

I second this.

Trying to find a triplexer for my for my Harris 100m. While not impossible hurts, cheaper ones are +280 and commercial ones average $600+ for used ones.

Note:
watch antenna spacing. My xtl5k (set for gmrs and p25 65cm/70cm) when at full tilt has blasted my ftm400. That is with the 5/8th for the xtl at the back 1/3 of the roof ND the 2/70sh on the driver front fender. Doesn't happen the other way around with the ftm400 on 70cm and the xtl5k on gmrs. The xtl is just has better selectivity. I have to turn off the ftm400, when using the xtl.

Marc has toasted a vhf xtl. Not sure if has to do with the proximity of his uhf xtl. Maybe he can chime in.


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[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

1 hour ago, kidphc said:

 

 

I second this.

Trying to find a triplexer for my for my Harris 100m. While not impossible hurts, cheaper ones are +280 and commercial ones average $600+ for used ones.

Note:
watch antenna spacing. My xtl5k (set for gmrs and p25 65cm/70cm) when at full tilt has blasted my ftm400. That is with the 5/8th for the xtl at the back 1/3 of the roof ND the 2/70sh on the driver front fender. Doesn't happen the other way around with the ftm400 on 70cm and the xtl5k on gmrs. The xtl is just has better selectivity. I have to turn off the ftm400, when using the xtl.

Marc has toasted a vhf xtl. Not sure if has to do with the proximity of his uhf xtl. Maybe he can chime in.


Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 

 

About how far apart is too close, also how much power were you swinging?

[kidphc]

Get them as far apart as possible, especially if they are close in frequency or hamonics.

Mine are about 6 feet apart, on two different planes.

22w low 48 watts high, out from the rf port on the xtl5k


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[CyborgAlienWRYG738]

17 minutes ago, kidphc said:

Get them as far apart as possible, especially if they are close in frequency or hamonics.

Mine are about 6 feet apart, on two different planes.

22w low 48 watts high, out from the rf port on the xtl5k


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I don't have anywhere near that space on the roof of my 23 Nissan Rogue, maybe at best a couple of feet, if I set one beside the main car antenna, which also has GPS in it. Hence why I'd like to go with a combo antenna. Especially, in the vehicle, while it's in there, it's mostly going to be in my "shack". But, I'm only wanting to use the 1 antenna, since I will be moving it until I can afford the exterior antenna.

[JohnE]

have been using these for decades but single band

https://d3dqzy9ky05fbv.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/ASP-Mosaic-Series.pdf

also have been using a Laird B4505 for a few yrs now and I find it comparable to the Mosaic