DMK URI, MTR2K Will not pass TX unless keyed in Terminal.

[SimpliJoe]

I have a Motorola MTR 2000 repeater. I have an ICS Controller board in the J5 system connector, going to a URIxB via the DB-9 to DB-25, assembled by me. I've done days worth of research to no avail. The repeater & URI both show TX if I key the radio in the simple_usb_tune menu. Hitting the repeater with a HT, RX lights up but no TX on the URI or MTR. Not sure if this is RSS programming or on the URI/Asterisk side. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all!

[gortex2]

Which board from ICS are you using ? The passive board that goes to a DB9 ? There are a couple boards and COR comes out on a different pin for each. Looking at the MTR manual COR is on the system connector on pin B4 or C2 depending on application.

[SimpliJoe]

I’m using the passive board with the common RC 210/RPi input/output pins. I have C2 high leading to pin 7. A17 TX Audio to pin 22. C17 discriminator to pin 9. B4 carrier detect on pin 8. Those are MTR to URI. 

[gortex2]

Does it change state ? With a Digital Volt Meter ? 

 

[SimpliJoe]

Gortex, I probed the ground & pin 8 COR with multimeter. I have no voltage on COR when its idle or keyed. Its almost like COR is the issue (its driving me bonkers). The controller keys the radio, sounds great out of the repeater. I just can't get a regular TX to pass through. 

[gortex2]

If your getting no COR then that's your issue. I'd need to dig out my W95 computer and look at a codeplug. I don't recall there being options other than wireline that could be changed in the base. Did you look over the service manual for this ? 

 

https://manuals.repeater-builder.com/mo-files2/-MTR2000/MTR2000 UHF service 6881096E35-A.pdf

[gortex2]

So looking at the document you had it appears the controller may be looking at both COR and PL Detect ? Can you change it to only use COR ? But B4 should have some voltage (maybe +/-) 5 volts DC ? 

 

On page 148 it is the AUX I/O board. It talks about a CSS Setting for GPIO14. IF so I would think that's in the AUX I/O setting on the PC

 

OK found my software. Do you have the AUX i/o board in your MTR ? 

 

Also how is your "channel info" setup ? It is set for Carrier and PL Correct ? 

 

Station setup as Base Correct ? 

 

 

[SimpliJoe]

Already so appreciative of the information! So the controller has output pins for both COR & CTCSS. (https://dmkeng.com/images/URIx Data Sheet.pdf) I unfortunately do not have a Wildcard board, I do however have a wireline, which I'm attempting to use for TX/RX audio. My MTR is set for Carrier & PL/DPL. I have tried using Wireline, Aux audio & wireline, Aux Audio to which none of those options have worked. I've read over the manual along with probably every link I can find relating to this haha.  MTR is set for Base operation, Aux TX Flat, I've tried using no PL tone (CSQ), & have attempted to use 100.0 for both TX & RX. Would I need to throw a resistor or anything to that effect in-line with pin B4, going to the controller? If you'd like me to get screenshots of my RSS or any additional photos/documents, just let me know. Again, thank you so much for taking the time! Side note - I have also tried using "USB" & "USBINVERT" inside the SimpleUsb.conf. I know those settings work due to the MTR staying keyed constantly if I invert the PTT, & returning to normal after switching back.

[gortex2]

I need to run out tomorrow. I can try to get in the shop on Sunday and test one of my MTR's. no promisses but I'll try. 

 

[SimpliJoe]

My man! Thank you

[Radioguy7268]

Using the Wireline audio is the way to go if you want the MTR2K to do the PL/DPL. There is a procedure to follow to set up the levels on the wireline audio if it was never before configured. That requires test equipment and some know-how, but the procedure is in the manual.

Go read up at repeater-builder.com :

https://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/mtr2k/more-mtr2k-int/mtr2000-interfacing-followup.html

According to the "Installation and Operation manual", System Connector pin C10 (External Tx. keying signal) states:

 

"Grounding Ext. PTT pin causes Tx to key. 5.0Vdc on pin when Tx is not keyed. Note: To transmit signaling code (PL / DPL) by external PTT, it should be mapped (via RSS) to Wireline, and external modulation input should be routed to wireline."

 

They should have made the language a bit stronger, as this information MUST be followed exactly in order for this to work.

On the "Personality", "Channel Information", "PTT" page, set the "External PTT mapping" to "Wireline". IT WILL NOT WORK IF YOU DO NOT MAP THE AUDIO!! This is the only option that will pass external audio and internal PL/DPL. Make sure you UNCHECK the box next to "Wireline" in the "PTT Timeout Timer" area so the station doesn't time out when the external repeater controller keys it.

[SimpliJoe]

Radioguy, I've read every article on repeater builder, I've read the service manual, etc. I am currently using wireline for my TX/RX audio. PL isn't my problem.. Heck, I'd run carrier squelch if I could just get the dang thing to key up from a radio lol. Its gotta be something I'm wiring wrong. First time ever interfacing with an external controller (apart from 2 SM50's I had running with a ID-O-Matic. I have  COR on controller going  to B4 Carrier Detect on the MTR2K. Should I try using the COR & CTCSS on 1 pin together?

[SimpliJoe]

Let me add on.. I can key the MTR from a radio, the "receive" light comes on and stays solid until I unkey the radio. The received audio (in BASE station mode) does not get passed the controller, into the transmitter. 

[SimpliJoe]

& yes, I have attempted to adjust the levels in the "Station Alignment" via RSS

[gortex2]

So stupid question what are you gaining by using a controller ? Why not just use it as a repeater ? 

Anyway one test to try is to change back to repeater and make sure it repeats that way. Its still 24 here so until It warms a bit I'm not going to my barn to play radio

The issue you have is the COR. Until you have COR the repeater will never key from an external controller. I'd double check manual. But I think you need the AUX I/O board to get COR in looking at the manual. If it warms up enough I have a MTR without an AUX I/O and I'll check the pins your using to verify if they work or not. 

[SimpliJoe]

Attempting to get it live on the net lol. I used it as a standalone repeater for months & it was great. I’ll switch it back later today & give it a go. In the 30’s here so I hear you through & through. Moved my soldering station inside as a matter of fact haha. I’m leaning towards your statement, considering no voltage at idle or keyed, & thats coming right off System Connector J5. I’ll keep you posted & I greatly appreciate everything! After attempting to find a “Aux I/O” board, I’m now wondering if there is a way to do the same functions without the board. Build a board, etc? 

[Radioguy7268]

When the MTR2K is in "Base" mode, you need to have a signal to actually key the machine to act as a repeater. It will not automatically repeat just because you've got a PL/DPL or CSQ light on. I'm not seeing that you have anything strapped to C10. It appears that you need to strap Pin3 from your URIx to C10 on the J5. C10 needs to be pulled to ground in order to key the MTR2K when it's in Base mode.

[SimpliJoe]

Alright gentlemen, I read into the URIxB's manual. Overlooked the part regarding the 6db gain amplifier. I wired this directly to 12v from the MTR. I soldered a jumper from pin 23 -> 24, changed simpleusb to pick up voice from the Right Output & still nothing. Radioguy, that sheet you saw was the System connecter J5 to the DB9 on the ICS interface board.

Please correct me if I have this mixed up; When interfacing to a controller, does the Radio TX go to the controllers receive audio & Radio RX goes to the controller  TX audio?  Essentially Input goes to Output, Output goes to input?? I tried putting the CTCSS & Cor on PIN 8 of the URI. (Cor_Det) to no avail. 

I will include some more pics to hopefully not confuse y'all more than I already have. When using the "flash" feature in simpleusb menu, it sounds spectacular. I'm to invested at this point to give up haha. What can I say, I like to learn. Thank you both, I hope to stop bugging you soon.

[Radioguy7268]

Either I'm not understanding what you're saying, or there's an issue I'm not seeing. You seem to be saying that you cannot get the MTR to key (and pass audio) from a portable, but in one of your posts, you state "I can key the MTR from a radio, the "receive" light comes on and stays solid until I unkey the radio. The received audio (in BASE station mode) does not get passed the controller, into the transmitter."  When that receive light comes on (I'm assuming we are talking about the Rx LED on the MTR2K) - does your MTR also have a Transmit LED?  To me, "keyed" means transmitting.

What I do see is that your homemade cable does not appear to be strapped for PTT.  You probably need to provide me with a diagram of your cable pinout (both sides) in order to diagnose what you're doing wrong.

C10 needs to be pulled to ground to key the MTR in Base mode. You also need to properly map the Wireline Audio via RSS in order to get audio to pass when using the wireline audio - and by doing it that way, you can use the MTR's internal PL/DPL. Wireline audio is the way to go.

When you say that you've "attempted to adjust the audio" for the Wireline according to the Station Alignment - what did you end up with for levels? And, what did you use to input the 1000 Hz tone? There's really no attempting - you either set the levels or you do not, and you need to have a way to read exact deviation levels on the output.**

I have never needed to use any external amplifier to drive the input audio on an MTR2000. The station itself is plenty sensitive and responsive.

 

 

**I have found that you need to lie a little to the MTR during the wireline Station Alignment when giving the levels measured in order to actually achieve full deviation. ie: You need to understate the deviation values actually measured by a few hundred Hz when inputting your results - so that the MTR will slightly "over-drive" and give you the full deviation you desire.

[SimpliJoe]

I’ve finally figured it out on both of my repeaters! Sorry about all the confusion, I was burnt lol. After taking a breather & eliminating things one at a time, I interfaced it with 7 wires & no interface board. I think the ICS boards are garbage. PL & crisp audio through wireline. I appreciate you both, gentlemen!