Digital Data on GMRS Mobile (Midland asking FCC for rule change)

[WRUU653]

Posted at Buy Two way Radios.

https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2023/12/will-the-fcc-change-the-part-95-rules-for-digital-data-on-the-gmrs.html?utm_source=E20231218-5&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=E20231218-5

[Lscott]

5 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

Posted at Buy Two way Radios.

https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2023/12/will-the-fcc-change-the-part-95-rules-for-digital-data-on-the-gmrs.html?utm_source=E20231218-5&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=E20231218-5

I think if one wanted to know your location in an urban area using an app on the smart phone seems like a better idea. At least the location data can be overlaid directly on a map using a device most people already own. Using an HT or mobile radio alone  one would still require some method to plot the GPS location so more hardware would be required anyway.

The above point also applies while out "in the woods" too. I guess one would have to store the maps on an external device first then interface the radio to it to plot the GPS location being sent it it. Apparently there are some devices that can do both in one box but they likely aren't cheap.

https://g.factoryoutletstore.com/cat/31220/rino-.html

[Sshannon]

8 minutes ago, Lscott said:

I think if one wanted to know your location in an urban area using an app on the smart phone seems like a better idea. At least the location data can be overlaid directly on a map using a device most people already own. Using an HT or mobile radio alone  one would still require some method to plot the GPS location so more hardware would be required anyway.

The above point also applies while out "in the woods" too. I guess one would have to store the maps on an external device first then interface the radio to it to plot the GPS location being sent it it. Apparently there are some devices that can do both in one box but they likely aren't cheap.

https://g.factoryoutletstore.com/cat/31220/rino-.html

I have the full color Garmin Rino and it is excellent.  You can load tops maps at higher resolution for areas you want to visit.  The screens are easier to see the brighter the sun.  The Rinos are high quality GPS receivers with decent quality GMRS radios built in.  The monochrome one is much less expensive, but I like the color. But they are limited to handheld radios by current regulations and the data can not be sent through a repeater.

The proposal Gil posted is a change because it will allow mobile radios to do similar functions.

[Lscott]

5 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

The proposal Gil posted is a change because it will allow mobile radios to do similar functions.

It's bad enough people are trying to poke at their vehicle's touch screens, or playing with their smartphones, while driving.  Do we really need another distraction for the driver?

[WRUU653]

1 hour ago, Lscott said:

It's bad enough people are trying to poke at their vehicle's touch screens, or playing with their smartphones, while driving.  Do we really need another distraction for the driver?

I really can't argue with that. I do think they are looking at this for the off-road users as their primary target. 

[gortex2]

Only 4 people have commented. Apparently no one here cares about this change and how it will affect GMRS users.

 

https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/search-filings/results?q=(proceedings.name:("RM-11970"))

[Lscott]

3 hours ago, gortex2 said:

Only 4 people have commented. Apparently no one here cares about this change and how it will affect GMRS users.

Or GMRS users simply don't need the feature enough to bother commenting to the FCC about it.

[WRQC527]

2 hours ago, gortex2 said:

Only 4 people have commented.

Commenting about this on MyGMRS is meaningless. Commenting to the FCC during the FCC's 30-day window inviting public comment is probably the better use of time.

[Sshannon]

3 hours ago, gortex2 said:

Only 4 people have commented. Apparently no one here cares about this change and how it will affect GMRS users.

 

https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/search-filings/results?q=(proceedings.name:("RM-11970"))

You’re right.  I don’t care.  But that link doesn’t work on my iPad anyway.

[tweiss3]

I'm pretty sure there are  a handful of comments "pending", including mine.  Interesting to read through the comments, they all pretty much mirror my sentiment on the deal.

[gortex2]

Mine is pending. Not sure how long until they approve.

4 hours ago, WRQC527 said:

Commenting about this on MyGMRS is meaningless. Commenting to the FCC during the FCC's 30-day window inviting public comment is probably the better use of time.

My interest was to get others to comment. But I guess unless a YouTuber says to go do it most folks wont. 

 

Not sure why the link did not work but here is the FCC link

https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/docket-detail/RM-11970

 

[Sshannon]

24 minutes ago, gortex2 said:

Mine is pending. Not sure how long until they approve.

My interest was to get others to comment. But I guess unless a YouTuber says to go do it most folks wont. 

 

Not sure why the link did not work but here is the FCC link

https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/docket-detail/RM-11970

 

That works. Thanks.

[RayP]

On 12/26/2023 at 1:50 PM, gortex2 said:

Mine is pending. Not sure how long until they approve.

My interest was to get others to comment. But I guess unless a YouTuber says to go do it most folks wont. 

 

Not sure why the link did not work but here is the FCC link

https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/docket-detail/RM-11970

 

Thanks for the link.  After numerous attempts, I finally got it to take my express filing.

[JLeikhim]

There is only one day left to post YOUR comments on this critical item. Only 6 so far have commented in dissent. You can make an express comment filing if you wish . I did, and mine was wordy.

My old boss had a saying about allowing a camel to put his nose in the tent. Eventually you have the whole camel in your tent. Midland is interested only in maximizing sales of product, not protecting the GMRS service. You might like their product, fine, but Midland wants to distort the rules to sell product, without any regard to the technology that has existed since the inception of GMRS many decades ago. Point of fact, they have no problem ignoring that GMRS is a wide band 16K0F3E emission and sell radios that are narrow band and are reduced in performance. They did some trickery on one already certified radio model and claimed it could be made wide band via software. If so, it would be illegal to do so. So far I have no evidence that the software slipped out the back door, actually works. That is the company Midland.

1) More digital noises on the channels will become very annoying. I can tell you from experience, that the rodger beeps from FRS radios at the national parks will drive you nuts. Now with 50 watts and persistent GPS locations from 5 or 10 ATV's and voice communications will be impossible. Yes you can use PL but, if you are in the wilderness, sometimes it can be a safety net to listen in CSQ. Midland can do all this SMS messaging and geolocation on 900 MHz ISM band like their competition in this space. They can have mesh networking as well and extend the footprint substantially.

2) A digital voice option in GMRS would be great. However Midland describes a 4:1 TDMA solution that will not work in simplex which is 99% of their market. They are apparently un-knowledgeable about this and have thrown it in for arguments sake. If Midland were to develop such a product, it would not be a standard like P25 or DMR, it would be proprietary and incompatible with everyone else (Like Yaesu C4FM Fusion). If the radios are strictly digital, there would be no interoperability with existing FM wide band radios. Good luck on calling for help with your radios as you hear only digital voice. Midland can also do this on 900 MHz ISM band like Motorola DTR. There would need to be no FCC rule changes as ISM rules are very flexible.

None of what Midland has proposed should be approved. Especially adding digital data to high power radios.  If a digital voice option is to be considered, it should be described by the user community and should be a recognized standard like DMR and should have FM wide band mode as a primary mode of operation for interoperability with existing radio population. Frankly, a blanket approval of part 90 DMR radios, would be sufficient. But Midland wants more than that as a proprietary option will be cheaper to make and will lock in users to their crappy brand.

Please dissent on Midlands entire proposal and do so quickly. An Express Comment is fine. Just Say No to bad engineering.

https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/docket-detail/RM-11970

[JLeikhim]

On 12/19/2023 at 10:38 AM, Sshannon said:

I have the full color Garmin Rino and it is excellent.  You can load tops maps at higher resolution for areas you want to visit.  The screens are easier to see the brighter the sun.  The Rinos are high quality GPS receivers with decent quality GMRS radios built in.  The monochrome one is much less expensive, but I like the color. But they are limited to handheld radios by current regulations and the data can not be sent through a repeater.

The proposal Gil posted is a change because it will allow mobile radios to do similar functions.

The 50 watt mobiles will transmit on the 8 sole, repeater/simplex channels and create havoc for other GMRS users. Bad idea, even for "rural" .

[Sshannon]

I don't recall it being mentioned on the forums here, but in October, Garmin petitioned for a rule change as well:

https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/search-filings/filing/1005158792395