FNG with Questions

[WSAR579]

Hey everyone! Completely new to two-way radios and GMRS, etc… but I’ve been lurking and researching and reading through as many threads as possible for awhile and between y’all and the general internet, I feel like I’ve gotten a pretty good base understanding of everything. 

I’ve held off on asking questions bc most of them are already addressed either here, YouTube, RadioReference, etc… so I apologize if this information is already out there somewhere and I just missed it.

1 - As someone who doesn’t have a network of radio enthusiast friends, what’s one guy to do with a solo radio? I know the obvious answer is to buy a second one for my wife and hound her on it (ha!), but outside of that… what can I actually accomplish with an old analog radio? I want it in the event that cell phones are out of commission, power goes down, etc… and I picked the TK390 (450-490) after seeing enough positive feedback that I was confident in my purchase. I’m just curious what its capabilities are for a solo guy with one.

2 - When programming the channels into it, I assume just programming the 16 GMRS channels is a good place to start? Should I skip the FRS channels? With the Repeater channels being 15-22R, are those sequential AFTER the first 22 channels (IE: 23-30) or are those just the “second column” of the corresponding GMRS channels (Tx/Rx)? 

I know most of the local emergency stuff (police, EMS, etc) have likely switched to digital so I won’t get to eavesdrop on those frequencies, but everything I’ve read said to learn on an Analog first and then make the switch to DMR/P25 once I’ve gotten comfortable with/better understand the capabilities of two-way radios. 

3 - When looking at Repeater info for programming purposes: is the Repeater’s (Tx) MY corresponding (Rx)? For example, if a Repeater says 462.500, does that number go in my Encode or Decode column? I’m assuming the Repeater’s Transmit Frequency would be my Receive Frequency, right? Do Repeaters generally Receive on the Low Frequency (462.500) and Transmit on the High one (467.500), or vice versa? I hope I’m asking that right… perhaps a better way to ask would be: if a Repeater says it’s Rx is 462.500, is that info telling me that MY Rx should be set to 462.500, or that the Repeater’s Rx is that and therefore my Tx should be programmed to that.

Anyway, I’m excited to join the group and look forward to hearing any answers that you’re all kind enough to share! Thanks in advance!

- Jeff

[SteveShannon]

Welcome!

1. Listen for traffic. Depending on where you are you might hear a little or a lot. 
2. I would program all of them. 
The repeater channels (15R - 22R, or 23 - 30 on some radios) receive on exactly the same frequencies as the simplex channels 15 - 22.
3. The 462 MHz frequencies are where your radio receives from a repeater. You transmit to the repeater on the 467 MHz frequencies. You transmit to the repeater’s receiver. The repeater transmits to your receiver. You encode a tone to open the repeater. 
You can either use a decode tone to hear the repeater or you can leave the decode tone empty and hear everything on that frequency. 

[WRQC527]

20 minutes ago, WSAR579 said:

1 - As someone who doesn’t have a network of radio enthusiast friends, what’s one guy to do with a solo radio? I know the obvious answer is to buy a second one for my wife and hound her on it (ha!), but outside of that… what can I actually accomplish with an old analog radio? I want it in the event that cell phones are out of commission, power goes down, etc… and I picked the TK390 (450-490) after seeing enough positive feedback that I was confident in my purchase. I’m just curious what its capabilities are for a solo guy with one.

I don't want to hog all your questions so I'll take the first one. GMRS is more suited for talking with people you know who also have GMRS radios, such as for camping, hunting, hiking, off-roading, that kind of thing. However, some repeater organizations have weekly nets, so you can check in and possibly talk with others that way too. You'll find the occasional conversation on repeaters. It's a good idea for your famiy members to have radios too, that way you have other ways of communicating. Going solo with GMRS may be a bit disappointing because there isn't a big user base out there looking to make conversations like there is with amateur radio. Some of us here are licensed in both services so we have more comms options. If you are out by yourself doing some sort of solo outdoor activity, you can definitely increase your safety margin by having a GMRS radio, because a lot of people carry them to communicate within their groups and they would possibly hear you if you needed help, either by simplex or through a repeater.  

[WSAR579]

32 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

Welcome!

1. Listen for traffic. Depending on where you are you might hear a little or a lot. 
2. I would program all of them. 
The repeater channels (15R - 22R, or 23 - 30 on some radios) receive on exactly the same frequencies as the simplex channels 15 - 22.
3. The 462 MHz frequencies are where your radio receives from a repeater. You transmit to the repeater on the 467 MHz frequencies. You transmit to the repeater’s receiver. The repeater transmits to your receiver. You encode a tone to open the repeater. 
You can either use a decode tone to hear the repeater or you can leave the decode tone empty and hear everything on that frequency. 

Thank you Steve, that all makes sense! That also helps refine and reinforce some of my understandings about picking up repeaters, talk-around, etc… 

I appreciate the info!

 

[WSAR579]

47 minutes ago, WRQC527 said:

I don't want to hog all your questions so I'll take the first one. GMRS is more suited for talking with people you know who also have GMRS radios, such as for camping, hunting, hiking, off-roading, that kind of thing. However, some repeater organizations have weekly nets, so you can check in and possibly talk with others that way too. You'll find the occasional conversation on repeaters. It's a good idea for your famiy members to have radios too, that way you have other ways of communicating. Going solo with GMRS may be a bit disappointing because there isn't a big user base out there looking to make conversations like there is with amateur radio. Some of us here are licensed in both services so we have more comms options. If you are out by yourself doing some sort of solo outdoor activity, you can definitely increase your safety margin by having a GMRS radio, because a lot of people carry them to communicate within their groups and they would possibly hear you if you needed help, either by simplex or through a repeater.  

This is what I figured, but that’s totally okay! As I’m learning about this radio I’m realizing that I enjoy it, and as someone who enjoys hiking, fishing, and camping, I can see this coming in handy quite often as our little one grows up. 

However, it brings up another question that probably has the same answer… 

The TK390 has a frequency range from 450-490, and GMRS only takes up a portion of that band… what’s going on from 450-462, and 467-490? Is that bandwidth just used for two people to get off the GMRS band and chat with less traffic?

[SteveShannon]

1 minute ago, WSAR579 said:

This is what I figured, but that’s totally okay! As I’m learning about this radio I’m realizing that I enjoy it, and as someone who enjoys hiking, fishing, and camping, I can see this coming in handy quite often as our little one grows up. 

However, it brings up another question that probably has the same answer… 

The TK390 has a frequency range from 450-490, and GMRS only takes up a portion of that band… what’s going on from 450-462, and 467-490? Is that bandwidth just used for two people to get off the GMRS band and chat with less traffic?

No, GMRS users may only use the 22/30 channels assigned to GMRS. Those other frequencies are used all kinds of other things, including business bands. I’ll see if I can find a spectrum chart (or maybe someone else will).

[SteveShannon]

Here’s a snippet of the spectrum chart. Unfortunately it doesn’t really help much:

 

Here’s the chart in full:

[WSAR579]

10 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

No, GMRS users may only use the 22/30 channels assigned to GMRS. Those other frequencies are used all kinds of other things, including business bands. I’ll see if I can find a spectrum chart (or maybe someone else will).

Ohh yeah, okay - I’ve come across that chart that you’re referencing a couple times. Admittedly forgot about it, but now I recall the business bands, etc… so long story short, don’t go wandering off into those frequencies, got it. Thanks again! 

[SteveShannon]

23 minutes ago, WSAR579 said:

Ohh yeah, okay - I’ve come across that chart that you’re referencing a couple times. Admittedly forgot about it, but now I recall the business bands, etc… so long story short, don’t go wandering off into those frequencies, got it. Thanks again! 

If you get a certified GMRS radio you won’t have the ability anyway.  FCC won’t certify a radio for GMRS that’s capable of being easily tuned to transmit on other bands.

[WRQC527]

37 minutes ago, WSAR579 said:

what’s going on from 450-462, and 467-490?

If you have literally nothing else to do, you can take a look at RadioReference. I've linked my state below so you can get an idea what it looks like. Clicking on a specific link will show you what frequencies different organizations use.

https://www.radioreference.com/db/browse/stid/6

[WSAR579]

15 minutes ago, WRQC527 said:

If you have literally nothing else to do, you can take a look at RadioReference. I've linked my state below so you can get an idea what it looks like. Clicking on a specific link will show you what frequencies different organizations use.

https://www.radioreference.com/db/browse/stid/6

Thank you. I’ve poked around RadioReference quite a bit, there’s some very useful info over there as well. I checked your link and from there pulled up my state (TN). I see all of the organizations and their listed frequencies and it got me wondering - is there a way, just by looking at that info, to tell if - for instance - Local EMS on 462.950 is using Analog or Digital? Is it a safe assumption that by 2024, most professional orgs have moved into Digital? 
 

Thanks for the answers and engagement here. 

[WSAR579]

24 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

If you get a certified GMRS radio you won’t have the ability anyway.  FCC won’t certify a radio for GMRS that’s capable of being easily tuned to transmit on other bands.

Ok, so that’s what they mean by “GMRS Certified.” I know that the commercial/professional radios can have more power and therefore aren’t recommended on the GMRS frequencies without ensuring that they’re within the wattage limits .5-5w. Having purchased the radio that I have (TK390), I believe that is something I have to indicate when programming the channels? I noticed a “Tx Power: Low/High” toggle for each channel, and I know the radio is rated up to 5w. Would I indicate High on the GMRS and Low on the FRS channels, respectively?

 

[WRQC527]

3 minutes ago, WSAR579 said:

is there a way, just by looking at that info, to tell if - for instance - Local EMS on 462.950 is using Analog or Digital?

Yes. Where it says Mode, it will say FMN, (narrow FM), FM, which are both analog, or DMR, P25, NXDN, and posssibly others, which are digital.

[WSAR579]

1 minute ago, WRQC527 said:

Yes. Where it says Mode, it will say FMN, (narrow FM), FM, which are both analog, or DMR, P25, NXDN, and posssibly others, which are digital.

Ohh wow, okay - Amazing info, thank you!

[nokones]

The 470-512 MHz part of the spectrum is called the "T" Band because that part of the spectrum was originally  reserved/allocated for TV Channels 14-20.

However, the T-Band freqs may be granted for some LMR use, primarily Public Safety, and some specialized mobile radio systems, only in large metropolitan regions such as Los Angeles, San Francisco Bay Area, New York, etc.

Back in the early 80s, The Los Angeles Sheriff Department was using Lowband VHF freqs (39 MHz) and was in dire need of additional freqs to expand their radio system. There were no VHF and UHF freqs available so they initiated action to acquire spectrum in the lower UHF TV channels because they were not being used at that time in the LA area.

The Los Angeles Police Department was also in the same situation with their VHF Highband system. The LAPD also joined the effort with the LA Sheriff which started the reallocation of the lower UHF TV channels be used on a shared basis for public safety agencies in certain metro areas in the country.

The FCC granted the LA Sheriff use of the 480 Freqs, the LAPD use of the 500 MHz, and the use of 470-480 MHz freqs for Specialized Mobile Radio (SMR) systems.

Thus, the T-Band was born for LMR use in the subject metro areas of the country.

[WRWE456]

Welcome!

You bit off quite alot for your first GMRS radio. Here is an article that is good for beginners to read:

https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2024/01/how-to-buy-your-first-gmrs-radio.html

[WSAR579]

2 hours ago, nokones said:

The 470-512 MHz part of the spectrum is called the "T" Band because that part of the spectrum was originally  reserved/allocated for TV Channels 14-20.

However, the T-Band freqs may be granted for some LMR use, primarily Public Safety, and some specialized mobile radio systems, only in large metropolitan regions such as Los Angeles, San Francisco Bay Area, New York, etc.

Back in the early 80s, The Los Angeles Sheriff Department was using Lowband VHF freqs (39 MHz) and was in dire need of additional freqs to expand their radio system. There were no VHF and UHF freqs available so they initiated action to acquire spectrum in the lower UHF TV channels because they were not being used at that time in the LA area.

The Los Angeles Police Department was also in the same situation with their VHF Highband system. The LAPD also joined the effort with the LA Sheriff which started the reallocation of the lower UHF TV channels be used on a shared basis for public safety agencies in certain metro areas in the country.

The FCC granted the LA Sheriff use of the 480 Freqs, the LAPD use of the 500 MHz, and the use of 470-480 MHz freqs for Specialized Mobile Radio (SMR) systems.

Thus, the T-Band was born for LMR use in the subject metro areas of the country.

Solid history, thank you! 

[WSAR579]

2 hours ago, WRWE456 said:

Welcome!

You bit off quite alot for your first GMRS radio. Here is an article that is good for beginners to read:

https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2024/01/how-to-buy-your-first-gmrs-radio.html

Thank you, glad to be here! And yes, it certainly seems like I took quite the leap right off the bat. I ingested a LOT of info before buying, but it seems like perhaps I could’ve held off a bit longer. Nonetheless, I’m feeling pretty good about my understanding of GMRS generally, and this thread has already helped improve that understanding immensely! 

I still feel okay about the TK390 purchase too, although I’m realizing it was probably a little overzealous.  I recently realized that I have a blister pack of Midland GXT1050’s hiding unopened somewhere in my garage for the last 18 months. My goal this weekend is to find them, charge them, and see what I can learn from them as well. 

Thanks for the link, I’ll definitely check it out. I also stumbled across those guys’ podcast on Spotify awhile back and it’s been a wealth of information also.  Thanks again!

[WRWE456]

The Midlands are very basic radios. They do not have removable antennas so can not be upgraded or connected to a car antenna. They also do not use repeaters. They are fine for basic simplex use like camping with the family, hunting etc. I have six of them.

[WSAR579]

1 hour ago, WRWE456 said:

The Midlands are very basic radios. They do not have removable antennas so can not be upgraded or connected to a car antenna. They also do not use repeaters. They are fine for basic simplex use like camping with the family, hunting etc. I have six of them.

Yeah everything I’ve read about them is ultimately positive, even with their limited abilities, so it was fortunate happenstance that I bought them awhile back. Seems like they don’t hurt to have in a pinch if I need something short range. 
 

I do have a question - for you of whoever wants to weigh in here:

When programming a channel like 15, that has a corresponding repeater, that channel will only pick up that repeater if it has the specific CTCSS tone assigned to it programmed into the radio, correct? Otherwise the radio just be listening for general localized chatter, and NOT the repeater?

Assuming that is the case, would one then program a Group 1-22 of “Open” channels and then a second Group of repeater channels with the necessary tones? Or is that where channels 23-30 would come in? On a radio like my TK390, it has a knob with 16 channels so I’d imagine I would have to program a function button regardless if I wanted to hit channels 17+?

I guess a short way of asking that would be: if I programmed the Repeaters into 15-22, am I then committed to ONLY hearing repeater traffic on those since they have the tones programmed? Or is there a way to bypass those? Or, as mentioned above, do I program them into higher channels?

The more answers I get, the more questions I have. 

[WSAR579]

4 hours ago, WRWE456 said:

Welcome!

You bit off quite alot for your first GMRS radio. Here is an article that is good for beginners to read:

https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2024/01/how-to-buy-your-first-gmrs-radio.html

Great read at that link, btw - thanks again!

[WRWE456]

Glad to help.

I do not have that radio or know anything about it so I will let others answer your questions about it. Just looked it up for reference:

https://www.ameradio.com/product/5165/description.html is this the one?

I assume it requires software to program do you have that? It could be a project to get it set up for GMRS.

Good luck!

[WSAR579]

2 hours ago, WRWE456 said:

Glad to help.

I do not have that radio or know anything about it so I will let others answer your questions about it. Just looked it up for reference:

https://www.ameradio.com/product/5165/description.html is this the one?

I assume it requires software to program do you have that? It could be a project to get it set up for GMRS.

Good luck!

Yep, that’s the one! I actually acquired the cable and the software, and have been able to program a few local repeaters and write them to the radio. I’ve successfully one up, as identified by what everyone is calling the “squelch tail,” so I believe I’m on the right track!