Repeater question - TD-H3 GMRS, Tennessee Valley / North Alabama

[WSDA306]

So I heard a conversation happening on my TD-H3 today while I was doing a scan, nice people girl and a guy, the channel showed as 30, RPT 8 (default GMRS channel).  I have looked up all the repeaters in my area and there are only a few.  I live in a fairly decent sized city.  500K population in the metro area. 200K in the city itself.  Unfortunately all of the repeaters in my vicinity that are listed although their power/distance show me to be well within range, there is a lot of hills and small mountains that block the signal to my house from the one repeater that is closest.

However Im curious, given that I heard some chatter on this repeater Im wondering how I would find out about it, I looked it up, that freq for my city and it basically found an old post saying it was run by an angry guy that would cuss anyone out on the air tell people to get off  his repeater.  This repeater, sounds like it would work for me since it's the first one in my area that I found that I heard chatter on. Also, that post about that guy was from 8 years ago so I doubt it's the same guy.  So Im wondering should I just try using it and see what happens. 

I actually got permission to use one repeater in my area, then found out I wasnt in a direct line of sight to it even though it's not that far.

[amaff]

9 minutes ago, WSDA306 said:

So I heard a conversation happening on my TD-H3 today while I was doing a scan, nice people girl and a guy, the channel showed as 30, RPT 8 (default GMRS channel).  I have looked up all the repeaters in my area and there are only a few.  I live in a fairly decent sized city.  500K population in the metro area. 200K in the city itself.  Unfortunately all of the repeaters in my vicinity that are listed although their power/distance show me to be well within range, there is a lot of hills and small mountains that block the signal to my house from the one repeater that is closest.

However Im curious, given that I heard some chatter on this repeater Im wondering how I would find out about it, I looked it up, that freq for my city and it basically found an old post saying it was run by an angry guy that would cuss anyone out on the air tell people to get off  his repeater.  This repeater, sounds like it would work for me since it's the first one in my area that I found that I heard chatter on. Also, that post about that guy was from 8 years ago so I doubt it's the same guy.  So Im wondering should I just try using it and see what happens. 

I actually got permission to use one repeater in my area, then found out I wasnt in a direct line of sight to it even though it's not that far.

Might not actually be on the repeater. Repeater Channel 8 (or however they want to label it) is the same receive frequency as channel 22. So, maybe there's a repeater out there that's not listed (which happens). Or maybe they were talking on simplex on 22 and you caught them. 

[WSDA306]

"Might not actually be on the repeater. " - Yes, I was considering that.  it could have just been someone driving by where I live.  

Also, have another question though regarding repeaters, Im guessing it is true that just because a repeater reaches me doesnt actually mean that I am close enough to it.  Is that correct?  Which would mean I have to be pretty much within a mile or so of any repeater to TX to it from my handheld. Or is that not correct. 

It seems if that were the case then you could never talk to anyone through a repeater unless you were both within a couple of miles, not because the repeater cant reach but because the handhelds being used cant actually transmit that far.

[amaff]

5 minutes ago, WSDA306 said:

"Might not actually be on the repeater. " - Yes, I was considering that.  it could have just been someone driving by where I live.  

Also, have another question though regarding repeaters, Im guessing it is true that just because a repeater reaches me doesnt actually mean that I am close enough to it.  Is that correct?  Which would mean I have to be pretty much within a mile or so of any repeater to TX to it from my handheld. Or is that not correct. 

It seems if that were the case then you could never talk to anyone through a repeater unless you were both within a couple of miles, not because the repeater cant reach but because the handhelds being used cant actually transmit that far.

I mean, it depends. All repeaters are not the same, nor are all handhelds.

But: within a mile is pretty crap unless you're in a DENSELY wooded or built up area. I routinely talk through a repeater at 50 miles with a handheld.
That repeater is up on top of a mountain, and I'm on a hill with nothing but valley (ie: open air) between us. I also have been able to talk nearly 5 miles on simplex from up on my hillside to another handheld down in the valley. All of this using stock antennas (often, with an H3, actually).

So I'd say, short answer: no that's not correct. Long answer: ...but it could be depending on your particular circumstances.

[GreggInFL]

13 minutes ago, WSDA306 said:

Also, have another question though regarding repeaters, Im guessing it is true that just because a repeater reaches me doesnt actually mean that I am close enough to it.  Is that correct?  Which would mean I have to be pretty much within a mile or so of any repeater to TX to it from my handheld. Or is that not correct.

Repeaters tend to have more range than a handheld because of more power and a larger antenna, but you should able to connect with one from more than a mile away.  I'm in a wooded area but I can hit a repeater five miles away with a standard antenna if I'm in the front yard and facing the repeater.  That's not because I have a great radio but because the repeater has a great antenna, and because I'm lucky enough to squeeze the signal through a hole in the trees.

[WRXP381]

Yes totally correct. Just because a repeater can reach you 10,20,30 or more mile radius does not mean you can hit it.  A hand held is 5ish watts.  In the city, hills, mountains, woods ect you may only get 1mile.  Or in the open you may get 30-50miles no problem.  Gmrs is all line of sight.  . We have people in our club that do 50miles into our repeater all day every day from a hand held.  We also have people that can’t get 10miles with a 50w base unit and a big antenna.  Again it’s all line of sight.   So if you can’t hit it from your location try down the street or maybe even a few steps in another direction.  A $100 20w mobile in a car/truck with a $30 antenna can be very helpful. The same 20w base station at home with a good antenna up high will also help.  I’d say start out with just the antennas on the roof of the car or home and hook them up to your hand held.  It will get you many many more miles    
 

also all 5ish watt hand helds from a $20 uv5g for a $1000 Motorola all transmit just about the same distance if everything else is about the same.   It’s not the price or brand of radio but the line of sight.  Different antennas can also help you squeeze more out of your radio 

[WRVR303]

If you could be more specific about your location, a member familiar with your area might know exactly which repeater you could be hearing, too.

Huntsville, AL? How many miles and in what direction from a major landmark or highway intersection?

[WSDA306]

Sorry, been busy and havent had time to get back on this forum, Im on the edge of Meridianville and Huntsville Al.  Unfortunately although I love my new house, I picked a location that was in an area that has a large deadzone from the nearest repeater.  I did drive over close to this repeater the other day and got a response back, when I keyed up but yeah, I think there are mountains blocking it to my house.

[WRXB215]

@WSDA306 Wow! That sucks! Used to when you bought a house you looked for things like: is there a train track right next to it, airport, crime rate. Now we have to see if it's in a dead zone. 

[WSCN901]

If you decide that you want to put up an antenna to try and reach this repeater, there's a web site that can help if you know the height on the antenna you're trying to reach. You can put in your location and the tower's location, the tower's height, and then see what the terrain between the two points is like. This is the site that helped me figure out that I'd need around 1,200 feet of antenna height to talk to the repeater next to the in-laws.

https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-path/rf-line-of-sight/

[WSDA306]

Thanks, I'll check it out.  

[WSDA306]

I checked it out, thats a nice tool, and it does show me where I can reach that tower quite well.

[LeoG]

On 7/19/2024 at 8:16 AM, WSCN901 said:

If you decide that you want to put up an antenna to try and reach this repeater, there's a web site that can help if you know the height on the antenna you're trying to reach. You can put in your location and the tower's location, the tower's height, and then see what the terrain between the two points is like. This is the site that helped me figure out that I'd need around 1,200 feet of antenna height to talk to the repeater next to the in-laws.

https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-path/rf-line-of-sight/

Great reference !

[LeoG]

Oh darn.  It's showing information that isn't corresponding to my results for me.  Or my signals are punching through hills.

This is my repeater (gr) and my sisters location (bl) and I was happily talking to a friend across the river through the RT97S repeater.

Just seeing a red line doesn't equal no signal.  And I had a very nice signal talking between two 4.5 watt HTs and the repeater.

[SteveShannon]

43 minutes ago, LeoG said:

Oh darn.  It's showing information that isn't corresponding to my results for me.  Or my signals are punching through hills.

This is my repeater (gr) and my sisters location (bl) and I was happily talking to a friend across the river through the RT97S repeater.

Just seeing a red line doesn't equal no signal.  And I had a very nice signal talking between two 4.5 watt HTs and the repeater.

UHF will happily bounce off rocks. 

[LeoG]

We be doin' some bouncin then

[amaff]

10 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

UHF will happily bounce off rocks. 

I'm very much a radio user, not a radio nerd, so: that's really a thing? And if so to what degree?

We were at Craters of the Moon NP a couple months ago and I was getting some really weird (but great!) propagation among our group scattered throughout the park. Was able to talk to people a mile+ away while completely behind a mountain from them (ie: zero LOS). We were shocked that it worked at all, much less coming in loud and clear like we could see each other.

I had some suspicion it might have to do with the specific geology of that area, but then completely forgot to look into it when we got back haha

[LeoG]

If you have vertical "walls" of rock it will.  But in my case it's hills and I wouldn't expect a bounce to put the signal where I want it.

[BoxCar]

16 hours ago, LeoG said:

Oh darn.  It's showing information that isn't corresponding to my results for me.  Or my signals are punching through hills.

This is my repeater (gr) and my sisters location (bl) and I was happily talking to a friend across the river through the RT97S repeater.

Just seeing a red line doesn't equal no signal.  And I had a very nice signal talking between two 4.5 watt HTs and the repeater.

You could also be getting a "Knife edge" as a sharp peak will deflect a signal toward the valley behind it.

[LeoG]

I'm just assuming it takes a pretty big hill to stop the signal, or a bunch of smaller ones in succession.  The signal makes it over the hill still above your radio but because of propagation of waves it starts creeping down again.  In the shadow of the hill and as you get farther from it you can get more signal bleeding down.

 

One of the main reasons not to have a super high gain antenna in a hilly area.  If you laser beam your signal in one small plane it will get absorbed more by an blocking object.