Linked Repeaters

[Davichko5650]

38 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

How were they changed?  95.1733(a)8 still prohibits passing messages through a wireline control link. That hasn’t changed. 
95.1749 still has the same language regarding telephone networks. 

I didn't see where anything was updated either. Although it says on top it was changed 9-20-24. Normally there's a note where a change was effected. The link to previous version wasn't working either to look at that.

[SteveShannon]

20 minutes ago, Davichko5650 said:

I didn't see where anything was updated either. Although it says on top it was changed 9-20-24. Normally there's a note where a change was effected. The link to previous version wasn't working either to look at that.

It says Title 47 was changed; for GMRS there have been no changes to the rules since 8/24/2022.  To see the changes click on Timeline over on the left and you’ll see this. If you click on the words “View Change” you can step through the actual changes. They’re minimal and have nothing to do with Linking:

[WRKC935]

9 hours ago, nokones said:

A microwave link with frequencies allocated and ruled by Part 101, Fixed Microwave Services, is not a wireline link. A wireline link is involving the regulated public switching network of a telephone communications company.

So, with that being said, how do you figure that a microwave control link of GMRS stations is a violation of Part 95, subpart E? Please cite the affected rule saying a microwave control link is prohibited. Also, where did you come up with that a microwave control link is a wireline control link? I would like to hear your definition on that one.

It IS a wireline line by definition of wireline.  Wireline, at least in the commercial radio field is any audio / telemetry that is sourced outside of the transmitter site.  The method of transport isn't relevant.  It can be microwave, phone lines, Ethernet, Satellite, or any other type of transport you what to bring up.  If you are at location A and the transmitter is at location B, even across your yard, it's wireline. 

I understand you don't want that to be the case.  You want to find some loophole that you can wave in the FCC's face and tell them to kick rocks.  Part 95 doesn't define wireline.  It defined elsewhere in CFR 47. 

I want it to not be this way too.  I would be glad to put my repeater back up and link it so I can chat with others all over the place.  But the FCC has decided that's not to be. 

Stop sitting here and complaining.  I have already said how to go about getting it changed.  Go do that and quit with this beating of a now mutilated dead horse.

 

[nokones]

1 hour ago, WRKC935 said:

It IS a wireline line by definition of wireline.  Wireline, at least in the commercial radio field is any audio / telemetry that is sourced outside of the transmitter site.  The method of transport isn't relevant.  It can be microwave, phone lines, Ethernet, Satellite, or any other type of transport you what to bring up.  If you are at location A and the transmitter is at location B, even across your yard, it's wireline. 

I understand you don't want that to be the case.  You want to find some loophole that you can wave in the FCC's face and tell them to kick rocks.  Part 95 doesn't define wireline.  It defined elsewhere in CFR 47. 

I want it to not be this way too.  I would be glad to put my repeater back up and link it so I can chat with others all over the place.  But the FCC has decided that's not to be. 

Stop sitting here and complaining.  I have already said how to go about getting it changed.  Go do that and quit with this beating of a now mutilated dead horse.

 

You are obviously an Einstein on the subject wireline and microwave. 

[billraley1]

On 9/20/2024 at 9:23 PM, WRKC935 said:

OK, now that you all have made fools of yourself and chastised the guy.

Linked repeaters are now expressly forbidden by the FCC.  There have been a LOT of discussion about the topic in recent months from both sides of the isle so to speak.

But the one thing we can agree on is we don't want to hear about linked repeaters any more.  It's not really your fault that we have been discussing / arguing the topic since before you joined the site.  Yes, you could have searched 'linked repeaters' and probably figured out that it's not a topic to bring up now.  But that's water under the bridge... Like a freakin tidal wave of water, maybe a tsunami, a small one, but still in the classification.

So, there SHOULD NOT be any linked repeaters anywhere on GMRS.  Of course there are still a few, but they don't get talked about.  And no one is going to admit to having one on here if they do still have them in service.

Sorry about the man children around here.  The group is mostly well behaved and full of useful information and is typically friendly. 

But there are the occasions that they don't get their nap, forgot their safety blanket at home and act like children after you took their favorite toy from them.  Then it turns into a day at the 'day care' in the toddlers room.

 

Yet there are still plenty of linked repeaters in SW Arizona. Save up for those huge fines!

[LeeBo]

Ok, I'm going to throw a little extra fuel on the fire.

So if linked repeaters are now illegal, how is this group still in service?

https://nggmrs.org/

*Largest GMRS Network in the United States

*20+ Area Linked Repeaters

[amaff]

If meth's illegal, how's my local drug dealer still in business?

[LeeBo]

5 minutes ago, amaff said:

If meth's illegal, how's my local drug dealer still in business?

Really good lawyer. That's why their prices are so high.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LeeBo said:

Ok, I'm going to throw a little extra fuel on the fire.

So if linked repeaters are now illegal, how is this group still in service?

https://nggmrs.org/

*Largest GMRS Network in the United States

*20+ Area Linked Repeaters

It’s always been illegal.  It has just been recently clarified.  So people still speed?  

[OffRoaderX]

1 hour ago, Socalgmrs said:

It’s always been illegal.

No, it has not, and never has been "illegal".. It violates the FCC rules, which are not laws and are not subject to criminal prosecution. Please take a moment to learn the difference between RULES and LAWS... 

I know this is a pedantic point to make, but if I've learned anything from you, it is that being pedantic is very very important..

[WRKC935]

5 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

No, it has not, and never has been "illegal".. It violates the FCC rules, which are not laws and are not subject to criminal prosecution. Please take a moment to learn the difference between RULES and LAWS... 

I know this is a pedantic point to make, but if I've learned anything from you, it is that being pedantic is very very important..

This is very true. Using the term 'illegal' isn't correct.  And Randy's right, the FCC regulations are not laws.  They are codified regulations governing the different radio services.  Further, they are only enforceable by the that agency.  Which is why they show up for inspections and issue "Notices of Liability" not citations and Law Enforcement is only involved to enforce their ability to inspect / seize equipment if it comes to that. 

I believe that the citations/ fines issued are civil forfeiture as well.  But I don't know that for certain. 

[WRUE951]

7 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

No, it has not, and never has been "illegal".. It violates the FCC rules, which are not laws and are not subject to criminal prosecution. Please take a moment to learn the difference between RULES and LAWS... 

I know this is a pedantic point to make, but if I've learned anything from you, it is that being pedantic is very very important..

i think you are trying to refer to Federal Regulations there cowboy....   You've been watching to many youtube videos..  

[OffRoaderX]

36 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

i think you are trying to refer to Federal Regulations there cowboy....

Like I said.. Being overly pedantic is very, very important to "some people".. Thanks for reminding us all with your perfect example.

[WRQC527]

All this blah blah blah talk about rules, laws and illegalisms reminds me of this old saying...

“I consider sex a misdemeanor, the more I miss, de meaner I get.”

— Mae West

[CaptainSarcastic]

19 hours ago, amaff said:

If meth's illegal, how's my local drug dealer still in business?

Yeah, but your local meth dealer doesn't have a professionally designed website that blatantly advertises that he has meth for sale...

These guys clearly have no intention of abiding by the clarified rules.

[WRUE951]

50 minutes ago, CaptainSarcastic said:

Yeah, but your local meth dealer doesn't have a professionally designed website that blatantly advertises that he has meth for sale...

These guys clearly have no intention of abiding by the clarified rules.

thats because they watch videos telling them they'll never  get caught..  how'd you like to be that guy????

[quarterwave]

We can link repeaters?

[WRUE951]

35 minutes ago, quarterwave said:

We can link repeaters?

and i can $h*t on Randy's door mat  

[73blazer]

On 9/22/2024 at 5:40 PM, WRXL702 said:

In August, 2024 - He Then Received, Thru USPS Mail, That He Is now In Violation Of GMRS Linking & A $20,000 Fine Is Pending If Compliance Is Not Corrected.

This Is All Documented In The FCC Website For Violations.....

 

 

 

Is there a link to this violation notice? I just had a look at every type of enforcement action from July thru Nov and cannot find any notice of violation pertaining to GMRS, linking or $20k fine.  I just picked every type, date july 1st thru today and nothing. Their search tool isn't the best, I could be missing something.

[OffRoaderX]

11 minutes ago, 73blazer said:

Is there a link to this violation notice?

No - because @WRXL702 is lying.

[WRXL702]

Really......

You Are Welcome To Contact WRAX542 To See If He Would Furnish You With His Received Correspondence From The FCC, Concerning The Linking Of His GMRS Repeaters On The Midwest Network.
He Also Provided That Correspondence To The Owner Of GMRSLive, Upon His Request, To Help With His Decision On The Termination Of Servers Providing Linking On That Network Site.

[73blazer]

 

@WRXL702 your post said it was all "All Documented In The FCC Website For Violations..... "

 Well, if it's not in the FCC database of enforcement actions....it's not an official action and certainly not be anything anyone would have needed to act upon unless they wanted to.  And any "proposed fine" (the wording the fcc always uses) or "pending fine" would certainly be documented in the FCC database and there appears to be none. So I'd love to know what kind of communication they actually received, because whatever it was, it was not official. And they almost never propose a fine until they have contacted you first (which would be documented in their enforcement database as well) asking nicely to cease whatever activity your doing  that is breaking the rules and wait their requisite period of time for a response, after a no response then they *may* issue a proposed fine.

Was it like the NY systems "friendly" email from the FCC guy under the table saying you should probably shut those down or you might get an actual letter?

[WRXL702]

As Stated Previously - Reach Out & Contact The Recipient.......

You May Additionally Inquire About His Phone Conversations That He Had With An Official With The FCC Enforcement Division. 

You Could Also Reach Out To The Administrator Of GMRSLive, As He Contacted & Requested The FCC Documentation From The Midwest GMRS Repeater Owner. After Receipt & Review, The Final Site Notice From GMRSLive Made Reference To The Received Notification, Which He Stated, Was Instrumental On His Decision To Shut Down Linking GMRS Servers.  

 

[WRXL702]

For Those That Do Not Like How The FCC Conducts Or Lists Infractions And Or Rule Violations, I Suggest You Contact The FCC & Wage Your Complaint / Frustrations / Suggestions.

For Those That Are Still "Whining" That GMRS Linking Is Gone - Suggest You Grab A Shot & A Beer & Cry Yourself To Sleep Tonight.

I'm Done With This Ridiculous & Long Drug Out Discussion.

Wishing All A Safe & Happy Thanksgiving.

Much More To Life Than Discussing GMRS Repeater Linking........

[SteveShannon]

4 minutes ago, WRXL702 said:

For Those That Do Not Like How The FCC Conducts Or Lists Infractions And Or Rule Violations, I Suggest You Contact The FCC & Wage Your Complaint / Frustrations / Suggestions.

For Those That Are Still "Whining" That GMRS Linking Is Gone - Suggest You Grab A Shot & A Beer & Cry Yourself To Sleep Tonight.

I'm Done With This Ridiculous & Long Drug Out Discussion.

Wishing All A Safe & Happy Thanksgiving.

Much More To Life Than Discussing GMRS Repeater Linking........

Mmmm, beer...