Recording both receive and transmit audio

[WRQJ559]

I have a working setup to record receive audio on my base station radio (btech GMRS 50V2) using a little sony mp3 recorder connected to the speaker out jack on the back of the radio. I use it to record the local nets and provide those recordings so folks can hear what their equipment sounds like. It's very popular. 

One challenge I have is when I want to participate in the nets and also hear myself on the recordings so there aren't any gaps. As you would expect, if I key up my radio the transmit turns off the speaker out. I don't like the option of a separate microphone and all the complexity that would add to mix the 2 audio sources. 

One easy solution that I have done is to get on a handheld radio and walk far enough away that I don't create desense on the recording base station, but that is inconvenient. 

I tried going down the rabbit hole of all the digital mode ham software (aprs for example) that allows folks to control their radios with PC's but that has been too complicated to understand how it would work with my simple use case which is:

I want to record both incoming receive audio and my outgoing transmit audio over my PC interfaced though the k1 y-adapter port on my btech base station radio and do so with a software driven manual PTT button (not vox) to transmit from my PC mic (or headset). 

 

Anybody tackle this one, and if so what are your hardware and software components for the solution?

[dosw]

Hook up the *handheld* to the recorder. Or get an SDR and run SDR++, which has a recording mode.

[WRQJ559]

7 minutes ago, dosw said:

Hook up the *handheld* to the recorder. Or get an SDR and run SDR++, which has a recording mode.

I actually have played around with an SDR but that doesn't really solve the issue of recording my transmissions along with recording the received audio. Hooking up the handheld to the recorder puts me in proximity of my base station antenna and so it completely de-senses the audio to nothing unless I walk 50 yards away outside minimum. I appreciate the ideas though. 

[SteveShannon]

7 hours ago, WRQJ559 said:

I have a working setup to record receive audio on my base station radio (btech GMRS 50V2) using a little sony mp3 recorder connected to the speaker out jack on the back of the radio. I use it to record the local nets and provide those recordings so folks can hear what their equipment sounds like. It's very popular. 

One challenge I have is when I want to participate in the nets and also hear myself on the recordings so there aren't any gaps. As you would expect, if I key up my radio the transmit turns off the speaker out. I don't like the option of a separate microphone and all the complexity that would add to mix the 2 audio sources. 

One easy solution that I have done is to get on a handheld radio and walk far enough away that I don't create desense on the recording base station, but that is inconvenient. 

I tried going down the rabbit hole of all the digital mode ham software (aprs for example) that allows folks to control their radios with PC's but that has been too complicated to understand how it would work with my simple use case which is:

I want to record both incoming receive audio and my outgoing transmit audio over my PC interfaced though the k1 y-adapter port on my btech base station radio and do so with a software driven manual PTT button (not vox) to transmit from my PC mic (or headset). 

 

Anybody tackle this one, and if so what are your hardware and software components for the solution?

For some radios, in order to have the headphone jack reproduce the transmitted audio, there’s a built in “monitor” or “side tone” setting that must be turned on (not to be confused with the “moni” function that simply opens up squelch.)

Does the BTech radio allow CAT control?  If so, HRD (Ham Radio Deluxe) has a recorder app built in that records both the outgoing and incoming audio. It works well with my Yaesu radio.

The Yaesu FT5DR handheld will record both sides to a microSDR card in the radio.  So will their FT3DR and probably their mobile radios such as the FTM500.  I wouldn’t be surprised if some of their less expensive models do also.
 

 

 

[gortex2]

If recorder has right and left inputs. Leave one side on mobile radio for rx then second to a SDR listening to your TX frequency.

 

[dosw]

50 yards is far enough that it's likely beyond the width of your home/property, unfortunately. With a scanner, or an SDR, you could put both the output frequencies and the input frequencies in the scanner. When you key up you're going to be transmitting on the input frequency. The scanner should jump to the strongest signal; the input frequency. When you release the PTT, the scanner would probably jump over to the output frequency since it will still be outputting the squelch tail. When you're not transmitting but someone else is, the scanner would jump to that.

 

So with, say, a Uniden scanner, if you're trying to listen to the 700 repeater, then you would create a very small scan group of 462.7000 and 467.7000, set squelch appropriately, plug into your VOX recorder, and let the scanner jump to the strongest signal (or at least the first signal it hears, which will be the input frequency until it goes away). With an SDR, you would use SDRTrunk (software) and set up a small scan group of those two frequencies. Again, it will jump to the stronger of the two. SDRTrunk has a recording mode.

 

So I'm saying your base station may not be the receiver you need to be using to accomplish this. I understand it's what you want to do, but this is an XY problem. Here's the Wikipedia explanation of an XY problem:

Quote

Q: How can I use X to do Y?
A: If what you want is to do Y, you should ask that question without pre-supposing the use of a method that may not be appropriate. Questions of this form often indicate a person who is not merely ignorant about X, but confused about what problem Y they are solving and too fixated on the details of their particular situation.

While the Wikipedia explanation is not as tactful as I would prefer (I would not suggest you're ignorant about X or confused about the problem Y that you're solving, I assume you know a lot about all this stuff), it does demonstrate that if you take a step back from the problem and look at what you actually want to accomplish (Y), you may find that X is not the best way to do it. Just being open to other options may make the problem easier to solve.

 

If you don't have a scanner or an SDR, never fear. Even a cheap-o Baofeng will let you put 462.7000 in "A" and 467.7000 in "B", and set up dual watch. Plug it into a recorder, leave it on the other side of your house, and it should do what you want.  All three techniques I've mentioned -- a scanner, an SDR with SDRTrunk, and a Baofeng with the repeater pair in A/B slots -- are techniques I've actually used.

[WRQJ559]

50 yards is far enough that it's likely beyond the width of your home/property, unfortunately. With a scanner, or an SDR, you could put both the output frequencies and the input frequencies in the scanner. When you key up you're going to be transmitting on the input frequency. The scanner should jump to the strongest signal; the input frequency. When you release the PTT, the scanner would probably jump over to the output frequency since it will still be outputting the squelch tail. When you're not transmitting but someone else is, the scanner would jump to that.
 
So with, say, a Uniden scanner, if you're trying to listen to the 700 repeater, then you would create a very small scan group of 462.7000 and 467.7000, set squelch appropriately, plug into your VOX recorder, and let the scanner jump to the strongest signal (or at least the first signal it hears, which will be the input frequency until it goes away). With an SDR, you would use SDRTrunk (software) and set up a small scan group of those two frequencies. Again, it will jump to the stronger of the two. SDRTrunk has a recording mode.
 
So I'm saying your base station may not be the receiver you need to be using to accomplish this. I understand it's what you want to do, but this is an XY problem. Here's the Wikipedia explanation of an XY problem:

Q: How can I use X to do Y?
A: If what you want is to do Y, you should ask that question without pre-supposing the use of a method that may not be appropriate. Questions of this form often indicate a person who is not merely ignorant about X, but confused about what problem Y they are solving and too fixated on the details of their particular situation.

While the Wikipedia explanation is not as tactful as I would prefer (I would not suggest you're ignorant about X or confused about the problem Y that you're solving, I assume you know a lot about all this stuff), it does demonstrate that if you take a step back from the problem and look at what you actually want to accomplish (Y), you may find that X is not the best way to do it. Just being open to other options may make the problem easier to solve.
 
If you don't have a scanner or an SDR, never fear. Even a cheap-o Baofeng will let you put 462.7000 in "A" and 467.7000 in "B", and set up dual watch. Plug it into a recorder, leave it on the other side of your house, and it should do what you want.  All three techniques I've mentioned -- a scanner, an SDR with SDRTrunk, and a Baofeng with the repeater pair in A/B slots -- are techniques I've actually used.

Ok, that makes sense and perhaps I've been too focused on the base station centric solution to the detriment of thinking about the problem differently. I like the idea of trying the HT on dual watch at the other end of the house. Thank you.

[WRQJ559]

DOSW's solution for the win!

I just tested recording on dual watch mode using the separate input and output frequencies on one of the repeaters I have had trouble with in the past with desense and the radio did indeed selectively grab the stronger 467 input signal and I came through perfectly clear, even using the base station as recorder and my mobile unit in my truck in the garage on high power as the transmitting station. Perfect solution to keep me out of the cold this winter. Brilliant solution and it amazes me I never thought of this.