How Many Repeaters Do You Need

[WRKC935]

I don't know how it got to this.  I will tell you how it will end though.

There seems to be an almost 'ham club' mentality about having a repeater.  Long ago, someone told me if you found a town with 2 hams in it, there would be a minimum of 3 ham clubs.  Because each one want's to have his own thing, and then the third club they are both members of. 

GMRS repeater ownership (and I use to see this a LOT in ham too) somehow is some status symbol, or just 'part of having the license'.  People will stand up a medium to poor coverage repeater hanging an antenna at 20 feet in the air just so they can hear their call sign in CW on the air.  Not that they know CW or know it's correct, but it's THEIR repeater.  Never mind there is a monster coverage repeater or two in the area that everyone has access to, they need to do their own thing for whatever reason they have. 

SO here's the outcome.  Guys that build monster coverage GMRS repeaters do it for others to enjoy and operate on.  There is no other reason to build a repeater like that.  It's far easier and cheaper to just build one with the antenna on the end of your garage and be done with it.  This happens at a cost in time, money and labor.  You don't park antenna's multiple hundreds of feet in the air using LMR400 or RG8.  Antenna's that will put up with the wind at 200 feet do NOT come from Ed Fong, Retivis, or Comet.  And they certainly aren't cheap.

When the little play time repeaters start pulling the users away from the big repeaters, and it's not the asset that it was, or the owner doesn't see it that way, they will QUICKLY decide that it's not worth the effort to keep theirs on the air and the big repeaters will go away.  You will go from being able to talk across an entire county on one repeater to hopscotching across a city from repeater to repeater trying to carry on a conversation that would have been no problem on the big repeater. 

And you can sit here and pontificate all you want about that not being the roll of GMRS.  NO ONE care's.  Figure it out.  That's what it's being used for regardless of what you say, the regulations indicate, or the FCC has conveyed.  It's a social gathering medium.  Pure and simple.  So while it may be meant for that use.  It's what it's being used for.

I just personally experienced a setback with a project at my site.  We crested $400 A MONTH for the electric bill.  I was looking to run an inverter to power part of the gear that will not power off DC any reasonable way.  But converting 48 volts to 120 volts and the feeding servers don't make them draw less, the draw went up significantly.

Which lead me to look at what I am sitting on.  I have a bunch of good 75 and 105 Ah AGM batteries that would sell easily for 50 bucks a pop.  Just the 48 volt plant batteries are worth a grand.  Then there are another 12 divided between the 12 and 24 volt plants.  So another thousand plus dollars.  IN BATTERIES, sitting there so that others can use the repeaters I host for NO cost to them.  SO yes, when it seems that Elvis as left the building and the repeaters aren't getting used, they will be shut off, sold off and I will NOT care in the slightest. 

I can't wrap my mind around why we are getting on here and COMPLAINING about the actions of others.  Are these other repeaters interfering with YOUR repeater?  Are you unable to put up you own 20 foot antenna for your own repeater that will equally not serve anyone, and have less coverage than two walkies on simplex?  I fail to understand the issue here.  Do you have thousands of dollars in equipment that the user base is slowly dwindling away because they put up their own repeaters and they choose to go hang out on them and talk to no one because no one is in the coverage footprint besides them? 

 

 

[GrouserPad]

46 minutes ago, WRKC935 said:

I don't know how it got to this.  I will tell you how it will end though.

There seems to be an almost 'ham club' mentality about having a repeater.  Long ago, someone told me if you found a town with 2 hams in it, there would be a minimum of 3 ham clubs.  Because each one want's to have his own thing, and then the third club they are both members of. 

GMRS repeater ownership (and I use to see this a LOT in ham too) somehow is some status symbol, or just 'part of having the license'.  People will stand up a medium to poor coverage repeater hanging an antenna at 20 feet in the air just so they can hear their call sign in CW on the air.  Not that they know CW or know it's correct, but it's THEIR repeater.  Never mind there is a monster coverage repeater or two in the area that everyone has access to, they need to do their own thing for whatever reason they have. 

SO here's the outcome.  Guys that build monster coverage GMRS repeaters do it for others to enjoy and operate on.  There is no other reason to build a repeater like that.  It's far easier and cheaper to just build one with the antenna on the end of your garage and be done with it.  This happens at a cost in time, money and labor.  You don't park antenna's multiple hundreds of feet in the air using LMR400 or RG8.  Antenna's that will put up with the wind at 200 feet do NOT come from Ed Fong, Retivis, or Comet.  And they certainly aren't cheap.

When the little play time repeaters start pulling the users away from the big repeaters, and it's not the asset that it was, or the owner doesn't see it that way, they will QUICKLY decide that it's not worth the effort to keep theirs on the air and the big repeaters will go away.  You will go from being able to talk across an entire county on one repeater to hopscotching across a city from repeater to repeater trying to carry on a conversation that would have been no problem on the big repeater. 

And you can sit here and pontificate all you want about that not being the roll of GMRS.  NO ONE care's.  Figure it out.  That's what it's being used for regardless of what you say, the regulations indicate, or the FCC has conveyed.  It's a social gathering medium.  Pure and simple.  So while it may be meant for that use.  It's what it's being used for.

I just personally experienced a setback with a project at my site.  We crested $400 A MONTH for the electric bill.  I was looking to run an inverter to power part of the gear that will not power off DC any reasonable way.  But converting 48 volts to 120 volts and the feeding servers don't make them draw less, the draw went up significantly.

Which lead me to look at what I am sitting on.  I have a bunch of good 75 and 105 Ah AGM batteries that would sell easily for 50 bucks a pop.  Just the 48 volt plant batteries are worth a grand.  Then there are another 12 divided between the 12 and 24 volt plants.  So another thousand plus dollars.  IN BATTERIES, sitting there so that others can use the repeaters I host for NO cost to them.  SO yes, when it seems that Elvis as left the building and the repeaters aren't getting used, they will be shut off, sold off and I will NOT care in the slightest. 

I can't wrap my mind around why we are getting on here and COMPLAINING about the actions of others.  Are these other repeaters interfering with YOUR repeater?  Are you unable to put up you own 20 foot antenna for your own repeater that will equally not serve anyone, and have less coverage than two walkies on simplex?  I fail to understand the issue here.  Do you have thousands of dollars in equipment that the user base is slowly dwindling away because they put up their own repeaters and they choose to go hang out on them and talk to no one because no one is in the coverage footprint besides them? 

 

 

As a relatively new gmrs user, I myself don’t use repeaters often because I know they are owned by people who put alot of time money and effort into them. I didn’t help them. I just found them listed on a website as “open”. And as such I feel like if I get on those repeaters im tying up their air space, using their resources, drawing their power and cycling their machines of which I did nothing to help with. So I try to stay off them unless absolutely necessary despite them being listed as “open”. I’ve never for a moment thought the big repeater owners actually wanted traffic on their machines by anyone other than those they give permission or those that are in their close knit groups because that would put wear and tear on their system by people they don’t even know. Maybe I’m off base. Maybe other people feel the way I do and it could be the reason a lot of useless tiny coverage repeaters pop up. I personally would rather see 1 repeater convering an area well than 4 covering it poorly but who am I to make any comment on the subject  as I bet repeater owners prolly feel like everyone just leeches off their hard work which is what goes through my mind every time I key up someone’s “open” repeater. None of this is sent in jest or malice whatsoever. Just adding into the conversation is all. Huge respect to everyone keeping the positive vibes and RF pumping off their towers and over the airwaves. 

[TerriKennedy]

6 hours ago, GrouserPad said:

As a relatively new gmrs user, I myself don’t use repeaters often because I know they are owned by people who put alot of time money and effort into them. I didn’t help them. I just found them listed on a website as “open”. And as such I feel like if I get on those repeaters im tying up their air space, using their resources, drawing their power and cycling their machines of which I did nothing to help with. So I try to stay off them unless absolutely necessary despite them being listed as “open”. I’ve never for a moment thought the big repeater owners actually wanted traffic on their machines by anyone other than those they give permission or those that are in their close knit groups because that would put wear and tear on their system by people they don’t even know. Maybe I’m off base. Maybe other people feel the way I do and it could be the reason a lot of useless tiny coverage repeaters pop up. I personally would rather see 1 repeater convering an area well than 4 covering it poorly but who am I to make any comment on the subject  as I bet repeater owners prolly feel like everyone just leeches off their hard work which is what goes through my mind every time I key up someone’s “open” repeater. None of this is sent in jest or malice whatsoever. Just adding into the conversation is all. Huge respect to everyone keeping the positive vibes and RF pumping off their towers and over the airwaves. 

FWIW, I've never declined an access request to my repeater (detailed on the previous page). The only reason I don't publish the tones and label it as "open" is because word will get out (beyond the members here) and I'll have people on the repeater who won't respect either FCC regulations or my own rules. With request "by access request", I know that whoever is asking at least has a GMRS license and I have their contact info should I need to make operational changes to the repeater that need to be announced.

[WRKC935]

8 hours ago, GrouserPad said:

As a relatively new gmrs user, I myself don’t use repeaters often because I know they are owned by people who put alot of time money and effort into them. I didn’t help them. I just found them listed on a website as “open”. And as such I feel like if I get on those repeaters im tying up their air space, using their resources, drawing their power and cycling their machines of which I did nothing to help with. So I try to stay off them unless absolutely necessary despite them being listed as “open”. I’ve never for a moment thought the big repeater owners actually wanted traffic on their machines by anyone other than those they give permission or those that are in their close knit groups because that would put wear and tear on their system by people they don’t even know. Maybe I’m off base. Maybe other people feel the way I do and it could be the reason a lot of useless tiny coverage repeaters pop up. I personally would rather see 1 repeater convering an area well than 4 covering it poorly but who am I to make any comment on the subject  as I bet repeater owners prolly feel like everyone just leeches off their hard work which is what goes through my mind every time I key up someone’s “open” repeater. None of this is sent in jest or malice whatsoever. Just adding into the conversation is all. Huge respect to everyone keeping the positive vibes and RF pumping off their towers and over the airwaves. 

And we are back to the "Guys that build BIG repeaters" want people to use them.  I have banned exactly ONE person from my repeater.  I did that because he got mad at ME for not banning someone else from my repeater. So since he didn't want to hear the guy on my repeater, I banned him. 

In this day and age, don't think your leaching off an open repeater owner.  If he wanted money, or assistance with labor or anything like that, he would ask.  Or he would close the repeater and start charging fee's for access.  As a repeater owner, I can tell you this is true.  We haven't invested the time and money into building out this stuff for it to sit dormant.  If you have repeaters in your area that are OPEN, with posted PL/DPL codes, and they state they are open access repeaters.  USE THEM. That is what they are there for.  The owners WANT people to use them or they wouldn't be listed as open.  Don't expect them to invite you yo them.  Listing them as open and posting the codes or having the codes announced over the air in some cases, is all the invitation you are gonna get.  But don't think you are leaching.  You don't build a repeater system out that covers multiple counties for your own private use.  It's done because they want to support the GMRS radio community.  Because, not every GMRS user has the access to a tower or the ability to build out a big repeater.  Those of us that do, to this to support others. 

 

[GrouserPad]

6 hours ago, WRKC935 said:

And we are back to the "Guys that build BIG repeaters" want people to use them.  I have banned exactly ONE person from my repeater.  I did that because he got mad at ME for not banning someone else from my repeater. So since he didn't want to hear the guy on my repeater, I banned him. 

In this day and age, don't think your leaching off an open repeater owner.  If he wanted money, or assistance with labor or anything like that, he would ask.  Or he would close the repeater and start charging fee's for access.  As a repeater owner, I can tell you this is true.  We haven't invested the time and money into building out this stuff for it to sit dormant.  If you have repeaters in your area that are OPEN, with posted PL/DPL codes, and they state they are open access repeaters.  USE THEM. That is what they are there for.  The owners WANT people to use them or they wouldn't be listed as open.  Don't expect them to invite you yo them.  Listing them as open and posting the codes or having the codes announced over the air in some cases, is all the invitation you are gonna get.  But don't think you are leaching.  You don't build a repeater system out that covers multiple counties for your own private use.  It's done because they want to support the GMRS radio community.  Because, not every GMRS user has the access to a tower or the ability to build out a big repeater.  Those of us that do, to this to support others. 

 

That is awesome to hear. Maybe I’ll use some gmrs repeaters more often hearing your pov and knowing you actually want to promote the use of the Johnstown one. I’ll see if I can hit it reliably on my drive home from work today!! And I wasn’t being rude about the “guys who build big repeaters comment”….. if it came across that way(?). 

[WRKC935]

6 hours ago, GrouserPad said:

That is awesome to hear. Maybe I’ll use some gmrs repeaters more often hearing your pov and knowing you actually want to promote the use of the Johnstown one. I’ll see if I can hit it reliably on my drive home from work today!! And I wasn’t being rude about the “guys who build big repeaters comment”….. if it came across that way(?). 

Yes, PLEASE USE ITm, as often as you like.  If you hear me in there, say hello.  All are welcome to the machine.  If you can get into the Columbus 575, again, use that one too.  We want people to use these repeaters.  And don't forget about the Morrow 550, it's open as well. 

I have put a good bit of time and effort into getting the repeater on the air, and really do what others to use it.  That's why it got built. 

The comment about the folks that build 'big repeaters' wasn't a knock.  I am one of those guys.  The 675 talks from as far Northwest as Mechanicsburg, West to London, South to Lancaster and East to Zanesville.  It's got a big footprint.  Yeah, I have a couple radios at the house if the wife wants to get in contact, but she just always calls my phone.  So please, feel free.  And anyone else reading this in the Central Ohio area, get in there.  You ARE certainly welcome.

 

I got spooled up because we have people that want to do nothing but complain. 

And it drives off new guys, or makes them question if they should be using other peoples equipment.  And the truth is that's why it's there to begin with.  If I just wanted to chat with my wife, I have several other methods to do that with. 

First is the obvious cell phone.  Everyone's got one of those.  Then there is the IP phone system at the house that I have a softphone application on my phone for.  Runs across an encrypted data link from my cell phone via a VPN tunnel to the house and then allows her to call me at my 'extension' number like calling another phone on a business phone system.  Then there's email and text, and voice message texts, and CB radio and the list goes on. 

Now in truth.  Having a repeater that has that sort of coverage, and not leaving it fully open to all licensed users, to me, that's BS.  Make no mistake, it talks a long way, and it would be very difficult for someone else to use that pair.  So if I built that out, and then denyed anyone else the ability to use that repeater, that would make me an A-hole in my eyes.  That's the one thing about the garage repeaters, you can have one or two in every town, on the same pair, and they don't interfere with each other since the coverage is small.  Mine ain't that at all. 

 

 

[tcp2525]

On 4/2/2025 at 7:13 PM, Socalgmrs said:

Totally agree and the answer is NO they don’t neeeed that many repeaters.  It’s turning into a macho thing.  “I have more and bigger repeaters then ….”   It’s causing many problems and upsetting other repeater owners.  Some court cases have even come up about it.   It’s getting crazy for something that should be used for family and friends while doing an activity.  

There's definitely nothing wrong with a single licensed user to put up a repeater on each of the repeater channels. Of course, you have to have the resources and sites to support them. Best to cover every available frequency to prevent congestion. Nothing worse than having someone using the repeater when you're ready to pick up the mic.

[WRUE951]

23 minutes ago, tcp2525 said:

There's definitely nothing wrong with a single licensed user to put up a repeater on each of the repeater channels. Of course, you have to have the resources and sites to support them. Best to cover every available frequency to prevent congestion. Nothing worse than having someone using the repeater when you're ready to pick up the mic.

You're right, and i do realize that currently there ar no rules prohibiting how many GMRS repeaters one can operate.  I find it interesting that someone can invest 40-50K and more for a pool of repeaters to talk with their family and friends..   Usually you don't spend that kind of money unless you're gong to make money. t..  I guess there is more than one Elon in this world and thats cool..  Do i think it is right for one person in one area is allowed to dominate the entire GMRS spectrum with their slew of repeaters leaving out the guy that wants to use the service for it's intention..  No i don't.    Now i have talked in person with one of these guys that operated a big handful of repeaters    He is also a HAM guy and he said, before the FCC put the hammer down on Linking, he was making money  via club membership.  He also said he is winding down his operation because he is loosing tons of club members supporting it.   So that tells me that probably most are making money on them..  And that is illegal and for a mother story.    

[tcp2525]

17 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

You're right, and i do realize that currently there ar no rules prohibiting how many GMRS repeaters one can operate.  I find it interesting that someone can invest 40-50K and more for a pool of repeaters to talk with their family and friends..   Usually you don't spend that kind of money unless you're gong to make money. t..  I guess there is more than one Elon in this world and thats cool..  Do i think it is right for one person in one area is allowed to dominate the entire GMRS spectrum with their slew of repeaters leaving out the guy that wants to use the service for it's intention..  No i don't.    Now i have talked in person with one of these guys that operated a big handful of repeaters    He is also a HAM guy and he said, before the FCC put the hammer down on Linking, he was making money  via club membership.  He also said he is winding down his operation because he is loosing tons of club members supporting it.   So that tells me that probably most are making money on them..  And that is illegal and for a mother story.    

Of course, if you're going to have multiple repeaters in this scenario they should be open to the public without restrictions, just as long as they follow good etiquette and don't cause interference. If someone want to drop a lot of coin to do this, more power to them. If one is smart about it and use their head they can get great high-end equipment dirt cheap. If you know the right people and have a streak of good luck you can get access to a good location and electricity and internet for free. I think the biggest problem with GMRS repeaters are the owners that have them closed to the public and not being used for years.

[TDM827]

Glad to see so many people offering strong opinions on how many repeaters people own, if they are public and how they run them. Public debates a great thing.

Adding the would "should" to this opinion kind of makes it sound like people want to control repeaters they don't own and the greater GMRS service itself.

Thankfully everyone is entitled to an opinion and should voice it. I know no one in the GMRS community would ever attempt to dictate how license holders be allowed to use the GMRS service, especially when engaged in activities allowable by the FCC. I just know it in my heart this would never happen.

I was really worried there for a minute that some GMRS users were going to start telling others what to do.

[WRUE951]

16 minutes ago, TDM827 said:

Glad to see so many people offering strong opinions on how many repeaters people own, if they are public and how they run them. Public debates a great thing.

Adding the would "should" to this opinion kind of makes it sound like people want to control repeaters they don't own and the greater GMRS service itself.

Thankfully everyone is entitled to an opinion and should voice it. I know no one in the GMRS community would ever attempt to dictate how license holders be allowed to use the GMRS service, especially when engaged in activities allowable by the FCC. I just know it in my heart this would never happen.

I was really worried there for a minute that some GMRS users were going to start telling others what to do.

Nothing illegal owning/operating multiple repeaters,,  Unless you are making money doing it..   Like most politicians whom become Millionaires the minute they enter office, finding and operating in the 'gray' areas is always overlooked and ignored.  Does it piss off some people,  Yup..  Does it make some people happy, Yup..   Is it right and fair? Some people say yup some say nope.. In regards to repeater usage on GMRS, I base my options on how the FCC set up GMRS and how they define its uses.  No one has to agree with my opinions,  i don't care if they do or don't.  The important thing is, i'm able to voice them..     Like the Video guy,,there is a lot of things he says and does i disagree with and there are things he does and says i agree with, So i don't tune him 'out'. I still watch his videos and i leave comments he may thing are positive and some he may think are negative..   

[TDM827]

5 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

I base my options on how the FCC set up GMRS and how they define its uses.  No one has to agree with my opinions,  i don't care if they do or don't.  The important thing is, i'm able to voice them..     

Believe it or not, I am 100% onboard with you on this! Especially the part about no one having to agree with your opinions.

All of us operate radio in a unique and massively geographically diverse country and naturally want to promote ideas best serving our individual needs, wants and experiences. No wonder there is plenty of room for healthy debate.  

I always strongly encourage people to debate their opinions in a public forum and amongst their representative law makers then let the best ideas win. 

 

 

[WRTC928]

10 hours ago, WRUE951 said:

 Like the Video guy,,there is a lot of things he says and does i disagree with and there are things he does and says i agree with, So i don't tune him 'out'. I still watch his videos and i leave comments he may thing are positive and some he may think are negative..   

I guy I follow on YouTube likes to say, "That's my opinion, and I'm an expert on my opinion."