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If you’re having a true emergency you don’t wait for a net; you declare an emergency and break in. Break, Break, Break You are interrupting in the middle of communication because you have an emergency. The fact that a Net is being conducted actually helps ensure that someone will hear your transmission! Nets are held to allow people to learn about and practice radio etiquette. Every person who uses a two way radio should take it upon themselves to learn radio etiquette. I know some people don’t want GMRS to resemble amateur radio, but basic radio etiquette should still be learned and practiced. Here’s one of several sources of information that may help you to know how to break in with an emergency transmission: https://quality2wayradios.com/store/two-way-radio-etiquette

The repeater is constantly generating low power RF with PL by design. The final PA is turned on and off to facilitate actual transmit. You are picking up that RF signal and it's opening up your radio. This is completely NORMAL and is not a concern. MTR and Quantar repeaters do the same thing.

The applicable rule in this matter is §95.1733(a)(8) which prohibits any messages which are both conveyed by (any form of) wireline control link (which will include internet connections) and transmitted by a GMRS station. GMRS was created with the intent of being a short range service not a bunch of interconnected repeaters for worldwide use (that’s the realm of amateur radio, common carrier services, and the internet). https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-E/section-95.1733 Sent from my SM-A136U using Tapatalk

Yeah, I have had several of these that I have worked on. Kenwood turns off the oscillator when they are not keyed. Motorola, Vertex and some others just turn the PA on and off. It allows for a quicker keyup time if the oscillator is already running on frequency. Now that delay isn't typically very long, but with trunking radio systems it can have an effect. The other thing is if it is still locking on frequency when the PA turns on there can be an audible tone heard on the air as the frequency stabilizes which can effect the signaling the transmitter puts out to the subscriber radio letting it know it's on the channel and transmitting. That stuff happens pretty quick but any delay is still a delay that the user can see and complain about. ANd if it effects the outbound signaling word on the trunking system, the call can be lost by the subscriber.

This may be the case, I have no personal experience with this specific repeater, but when my Kenwood was on the bench, the second it flipped into service mode, and the oscillator was turned on, all radios on that frequency in the room picked up the carrier, even without the PA being on.

Obviously you missed this since we are still discussing it. It's NORMAL. That's the way the Vertex works. And Vertex isn't the only repeater that does this. Some others strip the PL. MTR's and Quantars have a programmable REST frequency they revert to when they are receiving so this doesn't happen in situations were the repeater is located close to where portable radios are going to be. But again. This is normal and expected. Look in the programming and see if there is a setting for a REST frequency. If there is it's probably set to the TX frequency of the repeater. Change it to something else but DO NOT set it for the receive frequency or it will interfere with the receiver of the repeater. Once the issue goes away, program a radio up for to receive the rest frequency and you will find that it will hear the repeater generating a signal on the rest frequency. And when you key the repeater, the signal will go away. Or you can continue to connect and disconnect your antenna's, walk around the house and see where you can hear the signal. Ask more questions and get told more nonsense about what is NOT causing it and continue to wonder what it is. Even though I have told you. And since I believe I am the only one on here that does this shit for a living. I just might know what the hell I am talking about. Maybe... But at this point, it's anybodies guess.

I already had a roof mounted Comet CX-333 tri-bander from Ham usage that seems to work fine with GMRS and MURS (as little that I use MURS at home). Its not 17 feet but its over 5 feet (the one on the left).

From the ridiculous to the sublime! ?

One other good one for line of sight is http://heywhatsthat.com/

This tool will give you a good idea of lines of sight. https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-path/rf-line-of-sight/ Remember RF can be a little funny, but this is a good start. Look around at different ways to make a 20'-30' mast. Ask your local ham club too, there are many ways to skin this cat. Check FB market place, etc for masts too.

For what it is worth. I settled on this one and have had great reports from people that have heard me using it. I tried the N9TAX and had a higher than wanted SWR so am now using that one for my scanner. It works great as a scanner antenna! However using it as a base, people had problems hearing me. The one in the link solved that problem. https://www.ebay.com/itm/134261005629?ViewItem=&item=134261005629 I am very pleased however it only covers MURS and GMRS. That said, it covers it perfectly with a flat SWR on both for the most part. The MURS band does get up to a around 1.4 - 1.6 on the Blue DOT and Green Dot frequencies. However on all GMRS and the lower MURS frequencies the SWR is 1.0. It will not transmit on the 2 meter. I mean you can but the SWR is way up over 2.5 and higher. I have mine mounted up 35 feet in a not so friendly area, (Hilly and in woods), and located in Shipshewana about 20 miles from the Elkhart repeater. Using this antenna have no problem in spite of the terrain. This antenna is said to have 3.0 gain on VHF, 5.5 gain on GMRS.

YES! Linking is about done to death on GMRS as it has been on ham for a while! It has become a major annoyance on 2m/70cm ham. When I got on ham in 1996, I joined a club that had a great three (and sometimes 4) repeater linked system. In that day, before everyone had a cell in their pocket, it was a great conduit for family, friends, and social interaction in a 3-county region. Over time, the linking has gotten out of hand. One ham radio group I am thinking of has some great, and some not so great, repeaters covering part of two states. There are around a dozen. In my state they have a UHF repeater that has phenomenal coverage for that band. As such, many locals like to use that repeater, but since the owner group insists on 24-7-365 linking, whenever we use it, it ties up the system for all, including those in the other state. Ditto when they are on there complaining about their hemorrhoids or whatever. There should at least be a publicly known DTMF de-link/link code for these times. I know GMRS is not ham, but I see the same problems coming to GMRS because everyone is suddenly link-happy. I am a member of a GMRS paid group with repeaters in two states, because it is paid, traffic is not very heavy most of the time. Individual repeater coverage could be better, but they have a decent system. Every Sunday evening for a couple of hours or so, the system is unuseable because it carries a nationwide GMRS net. Were I broken down on the side of the road and needing to use the radio to get help because my cell was in a dead spot, I would be a very unhappy camper having to wait for this net to go off. Some people love hearing the voices from across the country coming through the speaker on their ht, mobile, or base. After a while, the novelty wears off. With only eight pairs available, I would much rather see repeaters carrying "local" traffic from a bigger footprint than duplicating a conversation being had 100 or more miles away and stifling local comms.

This sounds like classic desense, the HT in the room used to key up the repeater overpowers what the receiving handheld gets, and you hear nothing. If you could get the two HTs apart by 20' or more, try it again.

WELCOME to GMRS and myGMRS! Does it generate a morse code ID; if so record it and post the audio file here for us to decode.

Reporting Back: Thumbs up on the "Comet GP-6NC GMRS/FRS Commercial Dual-Band VHF/UHF Base Vertical Antennas GP-6NC"!! It bridged the gap on the TX side and better RX. I'm now able to talk with both repeaters 45-58 miles away during daytime hours in which i could not do before. Many thanks for all the information!!

On my Garmin GPS unit I have waypoints saved wfor local GMRS repeaters. When traveling I’ll generally set up a direct route to an interesting repeater. The GPS shows name of repeater, direct distance, and a pink line shows the direction to repeater. What’s missing is whether there is a clear line of sight to the repeater. An elevation profile that changes as you move showing the max elevation of the blocking mountain. It would be helpful if the amount of blocking updates as well. Like it’s only a 100’ of a 3000’ block. That way you see if terrain is an issue for poor coms.

BuyTwoWayRadios and BetterSafeRadio (i have purchased from both) are both based in the U.S. and have great support. Anything else I buy on Amazon because they make it very easy to return things if necessary, unlike if buying direct from some manufacturers (Retevis, Radioddity, etc). Sorry, NO affiliate link below.

Wireline refers to two locations connected by a physical, terrestrial connection. Telephone networks communicate between points using a physical hard-wired connection hence the term wireline. The term can also trace its beginnings back to the early days of telegraphy where physical wires connected each station to the other. The term predates radio and its modern equivalent wireless.

Some repeaters will generate CTCSS when they ID while others don't. Your configuration for TX PL/DPL and RX PL/DPL in some radios are separate, other radios will use either a single entry for both or rely on whatever the TX PL/DPL is set to for RX if nothing is configured. Try looking for a 'monitor' button on your radio. That will open the receiver regardless of the tone being received. See if you are hearing the Morse Code when you hit that button. Also, understand that the ID of the repeater is NOT going to happen every time you key it up. There is a timer in the repeater that if it hasn't transmitted ID in the time set in the repeater programming, typically 13 to 15 minutes, it will ID. If it has ID'd in the last 14 or so minutes it should NOT do it again. There is no requirement for a repeater to ID with the PL/DPL tone encoded. Ham's typically have this enabled so they can hear it to remind them to ID. Of course, some of them have talking repeater controllers that will babble on about where the repeater is, the frequency, call sign, time, temperature, how high the tower is, how much power it's running, club membership information, and a whole list of other nonsense that no one cares about. We have a ham repeater here locally that goes on for 15 seconds with this nonsense every 9 minutes rather or not it's in use. And for the love of God don't key the thing up after it's ID'd because then the secondary in USE ID will come on and it will ID again. If it's timed right you can get it to ID 3 times in about a minute. Hence the reason NO ONE uses the dumb thing. Personally I hate talking repeater controllers. The one on MIDWEST is fine. It runs once an hour, and has useful information. But if it was announcing crap every 15 minutes I would be unlinking my repeater. Anyway, I would be looking to see how your radio handles the PL/DPL configuration and see if you can disable the PL/DPL on receive to see if that helps. I am just guessing but I am willing to bet that the radio doesn't have some special filter to keep the Morse ID out of the receiver.

So I'm all for reading the rules but GMRS is a mess now. Even if it is totally illegal and the FCC puts out a report and order or rulemaking paper saying it can't happen that will change nothing as there is no enforcement. Its no different than DMR, P25 and other modes being used on GMRS daily. All we can do is help make GMRS useable. To be honest I'm hoping this is a fad and all these CCR Linking folks will loose interest and go away....Sadly I dont think that will happen.

Not very reassuring without firm legal ground to support the practice. At least people should be aware that it could be ruled as prohibited at some point so one shouldn’t get their panties in a twist “if” it ever happens.

I wouldn't say it failed. Some ORI repeaters are around me that are not listed here, and there are also a plenty of ORI repeaters listed here. YMMV, as usual, depending on the area.

This is the tower I have access to that was bought and paid for by a ham. I am gonna say that jealousy doesn't really play into it. But I could be wrong. As far as the misappropriation of taxpayer assets. Gonna have to say that, yes, that tends to irritate me. Now i am not gonna say that every ham group is full of idiots that would pull crap like the OP was talking about. But those guys and groups are out there. And I have seen where hams had gotten into agreements that were out of bounds. If a ham repeater is in place for EMCOMM for a county or other served agency that is being hosted totally free of charge, no insurance, power bill or anything else, then that equipment, at least in the eyes of the state of Ohio is to be tested on a regular interval and NOT used for general communications. There were two ham repeaters that were installed for an ARES group locally that were actually pulled from service because they were specifically paid for with a federal grant and then were used for general communications. The tower access agreements were also written specifying emergency use only and were granted free tower access due to them being for that specific use. And like I said, we can't approach a street department and borrow their tractor, dump truck, put crap in their buildings for storage or any of that. It ain't allowed. Because they are government (taxpayer) assets. A tower really should be no different. Tower rental rates. Have multiple customers on ATC sites. Paying between 1000 and 1600 per site for two antenna's and a microwave dish. Antenna's are at 130 and 150 and the dish is up at 200. These prices are common in this area. They are also on private sites and are paying less than that. But if you are renting from any of the major players, then you are paying these sort of rates for relatively low mounting positions on the towers. The pricing structure in your area may not be the same. I can only speak to what I have first hand knowledge of. This also applies to the way hams and ham clubs conduct themselves. If what he's saying is 100% correct and you are REQUIRED to be a member of their club to access a tower that doesn't belong to them, they are not doing it right. I have been to sites that hams were allowed full access to and they are typically a total mess. Cable held to tower legs with electrical tape if at all, improper cables used in the radio hut to protect from interfering with other tenants at the site. Skipping on proper grounding (of course I am R56 certified so I am a grounding and install NAZI and immediately notice such things). And I directly deal with it as a ham and a tower site manager. I get requests, some that almost sound like a mandate, that some ARES group NEEDS access to a tower for EMCOMM for free. I know better, the problem is that elected officials typically don't. They hear it's for public safety and disaster preparedness and immediately agree without any actual research, or it was done years ago by some verbal agreement by a friend that was also an elected official that never really had the right to do it and now it's just in place. I am all for providing hams access within reason for both EMCOMM and hobby use. And I don't believe they need to be made to pay the standard going rates that a cell phone company is required to pay. But they need to install to the same standards, use good equipment and not mobiles screwed to a sheet of plywood and hung on a wall with wires going every which way. But then again I have seen commercial radio companies that had install quality that made most ham install look good. But that's another story. And as far as the government being aware. The guy that owns that tower shown above is an IT admin and a ham. Of course he also climbs towers, since he has that one, but is not a licensed bonded climber. I went at the request of a county EMA to oversee and test antenna's and lines once the climbing and work had been completed by the tower climber that the hams were bringing in. The county had been told the guy was a TOWER PROFESSIONAL by the local ham group the work was being done for on a county owned tower at a city owned site. The guy that showed up as the TOWER PROFESSIONAL was the guy that owned this tower. They had told him little about what he was going to be doing, and I questioned what was gonna happen so I brought MY rigging equipment and tower winch in case it was needed. We pulled 300 pounds of stuff off that day and replaced 4 antenna's and two feed lines. He was totally unprepared for the job, because HE wasn't told what it was. I had a feeling that something like that would happen and was prepared for it with equipment. And the whole situation stuck me between my buddy and my customer that I HAD to tell them he wasn't a tower pro. And I even had hams coming up to me trying to tell me how to rig the tower, tie proper knots, and all sorts of crap. I ahve spent to last four years working all over that tower, rigging it, installing and removing antenna's and I was the one with the gear that was even gonna make the job possible. And I am getting told I am using the wrong knots. BTW, I was using bow-lines and figure 8 knots. So yeah, my personal experience with hams has been questionable at times for the last 20 years I have been a ham.

While I'd agree that there are regions where an open repeater or two could be desirable (the only one I've found listed in the entire county has a coverage range not much larger than standing on my roof with an HT), I also agree with those that want some sort of frequency coordination. ONE repeater covering a 30-40 mile radius is much to be preferred over an overlapping mishmash of pocket repeaters with 5 mile radius coverage. I'm ambivalent about linking -- if they are "locally" linked and operated by a single organization, basically for the purpose of covering, say, a county during emergencies, but maybe unlinked for day-to-day operations... okay... ad hoc multistate linking... not so much. As the FCC regulations state, GMRS is supposed to be a short-range service -- a large family farm (really large, let's say 640 acres) only requires radios with a 2-mile range (1.4 mile diagonal, actually). Put up a repeater with a 5 mile range and they can probably support some of the smaller neighboring farms at the same time (and maybe coordinate sharing some equipment should a malfunction occur in a tractor or such) Heck, it's only been in the last decade or so that the FCC gave up on the CB 150 mile limit, since good skip conditions can easily exceed that [I recall in the late 70s hearing a Kansas or Missouri station asking for emergency/travel assistance... From west central Michigan! -- easily 600 miles).

^^^^^^^^^^^ I hate linking for that point. And its the same conversations on ham or GMRS. The only GMRS repeaters around me are run by hams and just use it as another ham repeater. Drives me nuts.

Forgot to mention..Thanks for reminding me... Always beware of the "some people" that try their best overcomplicate everything.

They are the same.. Try removing the Decode tone to see if that helps, unless you are absolutely certain that the repeater uses the same decode and encode tones. It is also possible that you are simply out of range of the repeater - EVEN if you can hear it, that does not necessarily mean that you can hit it. Try going outside or driving closer if necessary.

I would like to do something similar so following to see what is recommended.

The Motorola 900 MHz digital FHSS radios are great for in-building coverage. They work pretty well outdoors in the open also. 1 watt is a little misleading when comparing them to "full power" UHF 4 or 5 watt portables. Transmit power is only useful if it overcomes the noise floor that you're trying to transmit over. Where those 1 watt 900 MHz FHSS radios shine, is that they have an effective receive signal level that's down in the -125 dBm range. Your typical UHF portable is lucky if it's beginning to receive anything at -119 dBm (and even if it does, then it's probably quite scratchy). So the 900 MHz radio comes in at better than a 6 dB winner in the receive category. Search that up on the dBm to Watts conversion scale, and you'll see that your UHF portable would need to transmit a decent signal at 4 watts or more just to begin achieve comparable performance - while the 900 MHz radio is hopping frequencies to avoid interference, plus pushing out a digital signal that's intelligible even at the very threshold of receive. Forget comparing horsepower numbers. In the radio world, you need to compare receivers. That's where the magic is happening. Watts are for salespeople and marketing types.

If what that person said is "the FCC does not allow new GMRS repeaters", then that person lied to you or is an idiot - likely both.

I really don't see the linking efforts going away. What I DO think, and I have done, is provide a secondary repeater in my area with the same coverage footprint so that two or more users in my coverage area have a manner to communicate that they are not tying up 30 other repeaters in 3 states while they talk about nothing specific. To me doing that is a waste of resources. And I have the ability to run multiple repeaters for the same antenna system. Now the operating of digital modes, God I would love that. And encryption too. For specific applications, and situations. But not as a constant thing, unless it was a closed repeater. But I don't understand the idea of a club, or public repeater being legal and linking NOT being legal. If it's specifically meant to be family comms only, then limit the antenna height to 50 feet and the power to 5 watts and not 50. Because my power level out of the building is 18 watts and I can talk on the thing 30 miles away from it. And even at 5 watts with 180 foot of antenna height, I am not gonna have that much less coverage footprint. I guess the real question is this. Does the FCC even care what we do as operators and repeater owners if we are not interfering with other services outside GMRS? CB radio is limited to 4 watts AM and 12 watts SSB. But there are videos on YouTube of guys running so much power that they have corona discharges and maintain huge electrical arcs on their antenna systems and yet there are NO report and orders issued about anyone operating with increased power levels on 11 meters. And when was the last time you saw ANY enforcement issues with GMRS. I looked and I couldn't find a single one in the last 15 years. And has anyone actually contacted the FCC and gotten an opinion from them about using the Internet as a link path to do interconnect with? Now I will say that there are no devices that are specifically marketed to the GMRS community that are used for linking. I am not seeing radios with Ethernet ports show up that could be used as nodes to connect to an IP network for remote operation. So there is that. But is there a market for them and do the manufactures see it as being a viable market? I am not a lawyer, or an FCC field agent. Government regulations are typically written in double speak and are notoriously difficult for laymen to understand. So I will NOT question what John said or his stance on the legality of it. Many of us in the radio hobby have stretched the rules at one time or another. Done dumb stuff on purpose or by accident like putting GMRS frequencies in a 100 watt mobile and forgetting to turn the power down to 50 watts. But I don't personally believe that the linking thing is going to be a primary enforcement issue from the FCC either. Just like the discussions of type accepted radios. If they come at you for something else, and your radio ain't legit, they will throw that on top of what they came down on you for, but it's not a primary offense that they will come inspect you station for. And I have worked with the FCC directly in the past. Looking for malicious interference on an homeland security licensed frequency and about interference to a navigation radar system used by an International airport. They were equally serious about the enforcement of the problems but were very easy to work with. And at the time they wondered if I was the one causing the interference with the radar system due to dishes we had on the tower.