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I live on the east side of a large valley at around 3300 feet elevation. There is a repeater on the west side of the valley at 4700 feet. I do not have a perfect line of sight. I had been hearing traffic on the correct repeater frequency occasionaly but couldn't tell if it was on that specific repeater. At one point I had thrown a slim jim roll up j-pole in a tall oak tree and did open the repeater with a handheld. I spoke to someone that didn't know where they were or what repeater they were on. Last week my daughter and her family were on the other side of the valley. I had asked my son-in-law to see if he could hit the repeater in question. He texted me that he could and that he was listening. I was able to talk to him on my 5w handheld but the signal wasn't very strong and reception was spotty at best. I threw the j-pole back up in the tree, 16' off the ground, and has a great signal. I am 83 miles from the repeater. Pretty good for GMRS. Just a good reminder of what a few feet of elevation and a good antenna can do for you. I got my s-i-l and I each a roll up to carry when one of us goes up into the high country. The picture is the peanut gallery watching me throw a line into the tree.

I have a theory that they wait until I purchase a certain radio and then wait a short time to release the new and improved "plus" model. It has happened too many times to be coincidence.

Count me as one of the guys who uses LMR-400 (the actual Times Microwave stuff) on a regular basis. I'll use it all day long for rooftop sites with a coax cable run under 50 ft. I'll use it for both UHF and VHF. I won't even blink at using it when price (bidding) is a consideration. If money doesn't matter, and the folks are willing to pay for Heliax (CommScope LDF-x50A) then buckle up & let's build something that's going to last 40 years. Otherwise, I'm going with a likely 10-15 year job and paying attention to waterproofing the connections. If you're running 100 foot of cable, or going up on an actual Tower site, then the math starts to work in favor of springing for the good stuff. Oh, and for all the hammy's out there that scream about using LMR-400 - it's probably those UHF PL-259 connectors that you keep soldering on that ruins the job, not the cable. I can easily count the number of jobs I've ever had to go back to due to a high noise floor from failed LMR-400. The answer is Zero. I've been doing this for close to 30 years now. People let theories of perfection get in the way too often. Crap like tin plated connectors and poor workmanship are more likely the cause of cable problems. You can look for value - just quit buying junk connectors that are 25 cents less than the next lowest price you can find online.

The link below goes into a bit more detail on the subject. https://www.repeater-builder.com/antenna/double-shielded-coax.html

I think alot of folks are coming to GMRS thinking its something it is not. Its not an emergency radio system nor is there predetermined repeaters all over for folks to use. There are alot of private repeaters and alot of open ones. I hate to compare to ham radio but I think many people think they can get a license and just use repeaters and they are all over. A "garage" repeater is great to help your area but very few large footprint repeaters are free to build and maintain. Anyway welcome to GMRS, but manage expectations.

Thanks for the responses! I assumed that was the case, but I couldn't know for sure. Not knowing of anyone in my area that uses GMRS to ask. I'm sure I will meet folks in my general area to learn from as time passes, but this forum will be my source of info to learn in the meantime. Thanks again!

I have had/used the KG-1000G, the 1000G+ and the DB-25... The DB-25 is probably my lease-favorite radio, and the KG-1000G+ is my mostest-favorite Part 95 GMRS radio, with the older 1000G right behind it.

There actually is data to support this theory.

Hello GMRS "gang", After a few postings and reflection, it is clear that GMRS owners need to make an orientation video, and/or hold a group zoom for new users before allowing access. This will be my approach 100%. In this meeting or video, politely addressing operational guidelines and expectations up front would really help! Because new users have no idea what to do, and seasoned and fresh "hammy's" are already going down the wrong path, sound mentorship is the answer. Not a rigorous military drill set, but a practical and open discussion. New users WANT to know what to do, and many "hams" think they know what to do. It is an unhealthy combo for sure. It's about getting along, sharing the resource, and not making the repeater owner want to get two sticks and gouge their eardrums out...

What are Signal Reports? What is an s-unit? Why does this matter? But, Why? First, why does any of this matter? The General Mobile Radio Service was segmented with the concept of being a short-distance two-way communications for licensees and their immediate family members. It doesn’t require any special knowledge, exams or understanding of the science behind the magic. However, you will occasionally hear both professional and amateur radio operators who are also licensed GMRS operators, who may be using lingo more common to other services. One of the most common will be an RST style signal report. I’ve noticed that many new operators will call for a radio check, especially on a repeater. They may get a 'signal report' from a Ham that sounds like this, “I copy you five nine.” Or you may hear “You are full-quiet into the repeater.” While these answers may be true and accurate, for new operators, hearing “Your radio sounds great” or “I can hear you fine, but there is a bunch of static. How far are you from me (or the repeater)” would likely be a lot more helpful. Well, in the event that you come across me or one of my well-seasoned friends and we forget that not everyone knows what we are talking about, this may help you understand what you are hearing with regard to signal reports… and if you would like to use the same method, provide you with the best guidance I can. What are RST and Signal Reports? The RST signal reporting system is primarily used by amateur radio operators and other radio hobbyists to exchange information about the quality of a radio signal being received. The original reporting system was created to be used with Morse Code, and is a three digit number. Each digit is used for conveying an assessment of a signal's Readability, Strength and Tone (RST). Over time, amateurs adopted this reporting scheme for voice communications as well, but it was modified a bit to be more friendly to reports about voice signals. Readability is still used to define how intelligible your voice is; meaning how well can I understand what you are saying. Strength of your signal is also still used, based on the meter on the receiver’s radio. However, Tone was dropped for voice reports. Though on occasion you will hear someone tell an operator, in plain language, if their transmitted signal has too high or too low of a tone, as some radios allow the owner to adjust the tone. Readability – This part of the report is subjective, but still helpful. Readability is used to define how intelligible your words are, on a scale of 1 to 5. A readability value of 1 means that I can tell you are transmitting and talking, but I can’t make out anything you are saying. A readability value of 5 means that, regardless of anything else, I can understand every word you say. A report with 2, 3 or 4 would be some variation between 1 and 5. Some examples on how I personally would rate your readability on GMRS would include a 2, meaning I may be able to hear enough of what you’re saying that in a life or death situation, it may be enough to get help going. With a 3, I may be able to understand 3 or 4 words out of every 5 words. We can talk, but it’s kind of a hassle. A 4 would be I can hear every word but there is static. Pretty straight forward. Strength – With regard to strength in a signal report, there is nothing subjective about it, sort of. Unfortunately, if it is scientific or subjective depends on your radio meter type and if the meter is calibrated. We are actually measuring the voltage of your signal on the receiver’s radio. This voltage is measured in S-units or Signal Units. Where this can get tricky with GMRS is, not every radio has a signal strength meter designed to support the common s-unit scale. You may have a display that shows 9 units on some unknown scale, or 10, or 15. I have even seen some radios that only have 4 or 5. I’ll explain the technical parts of signal strength measurements and if you have a radio that doesn’t use a traditional calibrated s-meter, you may be able to adopt the idea to your personal radio. This meter below is a classic analog meter. The top line measures the received signal strength in s-units. If the needle were to swing to 5, you would give them a 5 as the Strength portion of the report. For example, if you understand every word and the needle stops at 5, you would provide a signal report for their voice signal of “five five” or “5 5”. If you could hear all of the words they are saying with a lot of static and the needle is on the 3, you would report a “four three” or “4 3”. Below is a newer radio with a digital s-meter. It looks a little different, but the same rules apply. In this picture, my meter is showing a signal strength of about 5.5 (almost 6) s-units. If I could hear them perfectly, I would tell them their signal report is “five five plus” or “5 5 Plus”, meaning I understand everything perfectly and their signal strength is never less than 5. Now, the next two images show a radio that I know doesn’t have a properly labeled or calibrated s-meter. This type of meter is the reason I said there is nothing subjective about it, sort of. While an s-unit is a true measurement of voltage, this radio has 10 lines and nothing in the owner’s manual tells me what the increment values are. However, you could still adapt the concept to a signal report, making it a bit subjective. In the first image, the meter is completely full. In this state, it’s very likely that I can hear the person talking perfectly and they almost certainly met or exceeded the voltage requirement of 9 s-units. So, I would tell this person that they are “five nine” (5 9) or they are “full quiet”. In the next image, below, the signal goes to the fifth line. Being familiar with this radio, there is a good possibility that I can hear everything they are saying, but with a lot of static. So, I would be providing a signal report of “four five” or “4 5”, since the meter measurement is half the total scale. In this case, the signal report is 100% based on my interpretation of what I am hearing and seeing, rather than providing a “metered result.” I hope this makes sense. For those of you who are interested in the science behind an s-unit, here is a little history and values. In the 1930s, the industry agreed that 9 s-units would correspond to 50 microvolts (50 μV) at the input of a receiver. However, based on meter design and how the value was sampled, this was not accurately measured from radio to radio because the input impedance of receivers was not standardized. This changed in 1981. The International Amateur Radio Union (IARU) agreed on a technical recommendation for S Meter calibration, separately for HF and VHF/UHF. IARU defines 9 s-units for the HF bands to be a receiver input voltage of 50.2 microvolts and impedance of the receiver of 50 ohms. For VHF and UHF bands, the IARU defines 9 s-units to be a receiver input voltage of 5.01 microvolts and impedance of the receiver of 50 ohms. For both HF and below, as well as everything over HF, the IARU defines that a difference of one S-unit corresponds to a difference of 6 decibels (dB), equivalent to a voltage ratio of two, or power ratio of four. For example, if 9 s-units equals 50.2 μV, than 8 s-units is 25.1 μV, 7 s-units is 12.6 μV, etc. Signals stronger than 9 s-units are given with an additional dB rating. For example, “20 dB over S9” or simply "20 over". You can see these values on the s-meters in the first 2 images. Repeater Caveat There are some important caveats to signal reports for repeater users. The RST style signal report is not a valid reporting method. The voice quality or 'intelligibility' of the transmission is likely not going to be valid. If the reporting operator is receiving the repeater's signal well enough that there is little to no chance that the voice quality is impaired, you may be able to give and get a valid readability report. This condition is often when you will hear signal reports such as "loud and clear" or "full-quiet." These replies indicate that you have a very good radio and voice signal into the repeater, as reported by someone who has a very good signal from the repeater. Additionally, the signal strength is not relevant through the repeater, at all. The receiver's station is going to be seeing the signal strength of the repeater, not the originating station asking for a signal report. It is not possible to know the received signal strength at the repeater site unless you are the repeater owner or admin and have the ability to see the actual repeater's receive meter. Even then, most repeaters do not have any easily visible signal strength meters. The next best method would be if the receiving station listens to the repeater input frequency (assuming the receiving radio has that feature). If the reporting station can hear you directly, they can tell you how strong your signal is at that person's location. It's still not indicative of how strong your signal is at the repeater. I hope this information helps anyone who may hear this lingo out on the General Mobile Radio Service. Quick Reference Chart for S-Units

nice, no disrespect to suggestions but I would not change a thing. that is awsome for gmrs. fun stuff to push the envolope and win.

I have been able to list the repeater.

Nice! That is good. I'll have to look up what firmware version was running on the UV5R for the guy who said it wouldn't work anymore when he tried it.

Nope. Don't think you'll find it either. Baofengs are going to be your best bet for such a thing.

That is a bold statement, but curiously missing any actual examples/facts/data. Please tell us how the 1000G+ is limited compared to the 1000G .....

Yeah it's easy to memorize for sure. At least I didn't get one ending in 666! ?

I'll add my welcome as well. WRCM737, K4BJW

I went from a roll up jpole at 30 ft, that on days when conditions were optimal could get into repeaters 45miles away to a higher gain collinear that can get into the same repeaters with out problem when conditions are bad. Each antenna has its use. Some are better at filling space and some are better at pushing signal at greater ranges.

Yea, I don't understand how the VHF stuff is so expensive all of a sudden. I just picked up an XTVA with the HHCH for an absolute song to play with, since I have a XTS5000 in UHF, and wanted to see if I could get a VHF and about choked at the prices.

This sounds like a good way to need a new windshield

A lot of people seem to underestimate what a better antenna with just a little bit of a higher gain can do for them. And of course just getting the antenna higher. Height is might.

Most of the plus models I have seen though actually limit the radios more than they actually open things up though. Per the KG-1000G and the KG-1000G Plus. Probably due to getting yelled at by the FCC about something

Welcome, Stan! I hope you enjoy it here.

I thought I had read something like that before but couldn’t remember where. I guess we’ll see how the works out in practice.

o/~ If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, Never make a pretty woman your wife; So from my personal point of view, Get an ugly girl to marry you o/~

You can share what ever you want. It belongs to you.

North Georgia GMRS use Tac numbers after their call signs. That's the way they "prove" they are paid members.

So I've seen quite a few good reviews on here of RadioDan's service and I've seen some bad reviews. Well, I have a glowing review of RadioDan's service! I ordered the IDOM IV board (assembled), a voice board, and a couple interface cables last night. Unfortunately, his site indicated they were out of the fan relay boards, so I was unable to order one of those. After submitting my order, I sent an email to him inquiring if he has a waiting list or backorder list. He replied within an hour stating that he has plenty of them in stock he had recently received but had forgotten to update the website indicating such. He then PayPal invoiced me for one so it could be added to my existing order without increasing the shipping cost. OUTSTANDING!!!

I would not go near my windshield with a drill bit of any kind.

Dash mount mobile, right-angle connector/adapter... And a ceramics drill to put a hole through the windshield ?

It doesn’t matter. You will always want one more radio. You might as well buy one now. ?

Well, Logged in after not having been on here a while, and saw this thread. Thanks to Marc for taking the time! I shudder at the thought though of "ham" style culture becoming the "norm" for GMRS. Please refrain from emotional reactions, but I promise everyone that if this "cultural" situation of "hammy style" becomes the norm? GMRS will be in trouble. Using CW lingo/shorthand for voice modes is one of the operating habits of hams that are not the best. How many times have you heard the propane delivery guy using ham lingo when on the radio? Aircraft? EMS? Timber crews? Pipline? Railroad? Marine SSB (not ham but actual maritime SSB), Coast Guard, I can go on and on!! The phonetic alphabet is essential at times, and important to learn. Utility use is "inclusive" and using ham lingo is "exclusive"...

In that map, the two radios would need to be inside both respective circles. If you are going to have either a permanent base station or a portable/temporary base station at a camp, you would be much better served with a 5w-10w mobile used as a base station, and a portable mast with a high-gain antenna on it. This will increase your range due to the base antenna being higher and the gain from the antenna helps with transmit power and receive sensitivity. Below are a couple of my portable antenna's for example.

marcspaz You did a great write up on this. It should be required reading.

I see amateur radio as something for nearly everyone. There are people bouncing signals off the moon, building equipment, fox hunting, rag chewing, and just about anything a person could want. It started as a hobby for people fascinated by a new technology. It continues to reflect new technology. ARRL simply reflects that.