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You're absolutely right. And after reading this apparently endless thread and many just like it, this famous quote comes to mind. “I’ve made up my mind. Don’t confuse me with facts.”

Unfortunately, I have found that in real-world applications, what you are claiming doesn't happen. I spend a tremendous amount of time in the woods while offloading, assisting the Marine Corps Community Services with running events, and camping. Most of my friends and peers have 5w handheld radios for the stuff we do. I have an 8w handheld. We have never had a situation where we crossed a threshold to where I couldn't hear them, but they could hear me. I have all the proper tools and equipment to test this. I'd be happy to go out into the woods tomorrow and do real measurements and tell you what the scientifically measured truth is, if you're interested... but I don't think you are going to like the answer.

Well there is one other way to avoid FRS chatter that's 100 percent guaranteed to work. Find the power control button or knob on your radio and move it to the off position. No programming required.

Yes, I was teasing just to make the point that you *don't* take your discussion to emotional hysteria, like we see so often in say this thread (and so many others)...

Hi BoxCar. Thanks for the reply. I agree with all the points you make and am working toward optimizing all those things. For instance I just switched from RG-8U cable with UHF connectors to LMR400 with N connectors to improve feed line loss with UHF, even replaced the antenna with one with N connector, now it's down to a higher gain antenna and more power. And yes I do try and use the least amount of power needed but am limited by the HT's low power. The more I think about it the more I like the idea of having the option of stepping up transmit energy if trying to reach someone in a fringe area and with that in mind having a higher gain antenna should help with receiving them as well as I understand it so I think I'm on the right track. Thanks again.

Power is always nice, but in the ham world the mantra is to use the least amount of power required. The key piece is always the antenna with the higher the better as height is more important than gain. I will state the 3 things to weigh in deciding the next step is always antenna height, antenna gain and then transmitter power. The antenna points are always affected by SWR and losses in the feed line.

I thought it was move to the country eat a lot of peaches, or something like that.?

This isn't much of an argument. Wait until you see six pages of debate about an obscure FCC rule. Now THAT'S an argument.

Negligible - adjective, so small or unimportant as to be not worth considering; insignificant. 5 watts over 2??? After much consideration and all science aside “negligible” by definition it is not for me. Not quite insignificant enough as to not be worth considering. Can I tell the difference? I don’t know. Given the option… after consideration hand me the 5 watt radio. I mean that’s why they sell them right? “Sir would you like the double burger with extra cheese? Yes please.” This is just my opinion, not based on any real world science or testing and may not be the views of others expressed in this ever growing thread. Your mileage may vary. Void were prohibited. Ask your doctor if five watts is right for you.

I would drill a hole through the block wall. If you have two grounds you can end up with a current between them that can do anything from causing an annoying hum to destroying equipment in between them.

I think the real world difference between 2 watts and 5 watts comes down to noise floor. Outdoors in a quiet RF space, you probably would not see much difference. In a crowded urban area with tons of RF, the 5 watts will give you the tallest weed in a field of noisy grass. The 2 watts will still be down in the grass.

I do think it is crappy of the FCC to let FRS on all 22 channels. They should have some of there own, us have some of our own, and a few overlapping.

That would be pretty cool to see, too. I have an MFJ-802BX. The manual says I have to be at least 10 feet away with the sensitivity all the way down, to start, but I have no idea how far away I can get. It should be plenty sensitive enough for what we want to test, though. My wife always tells me I'm way too serious. I initially missed the satire... but I definitely appreciate it! LOL

That's actually amazing. I've been wondering all morning how I'd explain to my wife why I was buying a bunch more test equipment to do the same thing! I want to try it across city and inside buildings, too...

There you go! NOW you're attacking the person, instead of the argument. This is an excellent example of how to start a proper fight!

Thanks for the thoughtful reply's guys. You both make good points. I tend to like efficiency over brute force. I have heard reports that HT's are capable of reaching over 100 miles from elevated positions with line of sight conditions so it would seem that antenna's and having line of sight are more important than having more power. I'm sure they both have their place and use. More power to get through forest's and overcome line loss etc. That leads me to believe that I should have both. To have the option to be able to crank up the power for times when it will help. I want to get another radio and have been trying to decide between and other KG-935G or a more powerful mobile/base unit. I now think it makes sense to have the option of more power. Thanks for helping me think this through.

The only thing I would add to what Steve mentioned is that 50 watts will help overcome antenna cable losses while transmitting. If you are barely receiving a signal from someone using 20w and you're feeding a coax that reduces your 4w-5w handheld signal down to 1.5w or less into the antenna... that other station isn't going to hear you. So, more power and a good antenna would be a good choice.

From you location you probably wouldn’t get much more range, but your transmissions will sound clearer with less background noise.. You might be able to get into the forests better and the receivers in the mobile radio might be better. On the other hand, a better antenna is always better. Gain works in both directions. Having more gain means your transmitted signals and received signals are both amplified.

Do you have a smartphone? If so download the app and set up the account that way.

I always thought a fixed station was one that was broken, but now isn't. ?

Very cool! That's a good number of countries. I was being lazy one night on the radio in VA, tuning up my audio. I didn't feel like doing the extra work of running the dummy load, so I turned my power all the way down, which is 0.4w. While I was doing my audio testing, I was using my call sign and saying things to make the adjustments. When I let the key up, I guy from Ohio came back to me saying he had a great copy on me and the audio sounded really good. He asked what mic I was using... ended up chatting for about 10 minutes, to Ohio, on 0.4w. It was mind-blowing.

Or operate a pirate FM radio station and not keep your public file correctly.

I'm always surprised what can be done with only 5 watts on HF when things align. Since becoming licensed in 2020, I have 93 countries confirmed, totaling 648 grid squares. Lots of Europe and South America. I also got a new Africa station on Monday that isn't in my total log yet.

THANK YOU! I've been kinda sorry I started this argument, but I can't say I didn't know it would happen given I have a ham license.

Which can be up to 1,500 watts worth of experimentation.

Because Amateur Radio isn't just a toy to BS on. RF related experimentation is a huge part of amateur radio, with a lot of new experimental technology coming out every year. There needs to be some kind of verification that people are aware of the laws, rules and regulations surrounding the abilities allowed through the licensing and use of amateur radio.

That’s kind off cool to receive the access tone info through the ID. ?

One of the new GMRS repeaters by me does so using a female voice. It even announces it’s an open repeater and the access tone required.