Lscott

I purchased two new Lithium Ion battery packs for some of my Kenwood radios from a regular eBay seller a year or so back. Neither battery pack would charge in the official Kenwood KSC-25 charger base. The LED would just blink red, error condition, and failed to charge. After some investigation I discovered there is an internal wire connection between two of the several charger base contact points inside of the official battery pack which tells the charger base what battery chemistry it's charging. The after market packs didn't have it. I confirmed this by soldering a thin wire external to one of the new battery packs between the two contact points then inserted it in to the charger base. It worked. I contacted the seller and they tried to blame the charger base as being at fault. No, I told them their battery packs are the problem. They sold the battery packs as a "replacement" for the Kenwood battery packs and went so far as to put Kenwood's battery pack part number on the case . I went round and round with them several times before I got eBay to issue me a refund and sent the battery packs back. Later the seller tried to get me to leave good feedback, more like begged. I refused. I told them they more than likely knew about the issue since I wasn't the first to buy them and I'm sure others complained but avoided the bad feedback. I suspect the seller got a batch of these from a battery pack manufacture in China for a cheap price because the missing wire programming connection was a manufacturing defect, and instead of junking them sold them to recoup some of their cost. The seller tried to flip these on eBay to make a few quick bucks. I left bad feed back along with the exact reason why so anyone else reading the reviews hopefully won't get taken, and not having the expertise to figure why they don't work, believing the seller's BS excuse. I then turned around and purchase two more from a US seller, generic battery packs. I had zero issue getting those to work in the official Kenwood charger base. Of course they got very good feedback. The price was about a buck or so more than the defective battery packs I returned.

Yup, and even the expensive used radios aren't any better either from my experience. About 1/3 to 1/4 of the used battery packs that came with all the used radios I've purchased were junk. They either didn't charge, hold a charge or the useful remaining capacity was far below the rating on the case. The usual benchmark is when a battery pack gets down below 80 percent useful capacity, based on the case rating, the battery pack is considered end of life. You have to make a determination if the battery pack is worth messing with. For example a battery pack with just 60 percent of 2000 mAh capacity remaining is 1200 mAh, compare that to a 1450 mAh battery pack with 82.8 percent useful capacity. They both have the same total capacity. In general when buying used radios, where the seller includes a battery pack, don't place much value on it. Battery packs are typically considered "consumable' items and the seller will likely state they make no guarantees about the battery pack condition. You can usually count on having to buy a new battery pack. For the typical Kenwood radios I have they run from $20 to $25 each for the generic ones. If I get a used one that tests out at 80 percent or better I consider myself lucky and got a better deal than I thought. Be careful if a seller states the radio comes with a new battery pack. I paid more for a used TK-3212 because the seller made that claim. The battery pack "looked" new but tested out at around 50 percent. I ended up getting a partial refund from the seller who admitted his claim was based on the physical condition and no real testing. Also buying "new" generic battery packs, typically from China, may not have the claimed capacity either. If you do buy one or more I highly recommend you test them if possible. If you don't have the specific equipment to test a battery pack a rough estimate can be made using a few power resistors connected to the terminals, a cheap digital meter and a stop watch. Divide the nominal battery pack voltage by the resistance in ohms, then multiple by the time to get amp hours, and them by 1000 to get milliamp hours. The lower voltage cut off point to stop testing is dependent on the battery type and where the radio will shut down due to low voltage. Most of my Kenwood radios with shut down at 6VDC.

I don't have the radio but I do have the software installed. I'm going to make a few guess for things to look at and or try. I looked at the "Optional Features" -> "Optional Features 1" menu. What do you have entered for the "Group Name text length"? This Kenwood radio the total text length you can display for this model is 10 characters. Any text for the group name comes out of that total. So, for example, your group name text length is set for 3 then then max text length for channel name is 7. No matter how you set it up the total between the two can't exceed 10 characters this radio. The "Display Character" should be set for "Channel Name". I also noticed in the key assignment panel the "SCN Switch" should be set to "None". You should NOT be using any kind of scrambler for GMRS or FRS. If you somehow got the radio into the scrambler mode the two keys "c" and "d" work as the scrambler code select. That might be another reason for the funny operation.

I just did a quick look at the CPS for the Kenwood TK-3170, analog only. A number of people on the forum use this radio. The stun function is done by sending a series of digits using DTMF tones. If the stun feature is enabled in the target radio then it will react, otherwise it's ignored. Apparently they only way to target a given radio is it must be programed with a unique stun code. The radio has no idea where the codes originates from so you really need to keep the codes secret. I haven't even looked at how the few Motorola XPR radios do it. I suspect it's like you and gman1971 mentioned. What this clearly shows is anybody that has a mixed fleet of radios likely will need at least ONE radio of that manufacture, and likely model type, with the ability to send the stun command out. I think for operational simplicity any radio that is likely to get lost or stolen should be all of the same model and type. Then you don't have to worry in an emergency with fast changing conditions who has what type of radio and then trying to find one to send out the code before any major damage is done. You should have each radio clearly labeled, lets say a unit number, on the case so everyone in your group knows which radio they have so if lost or worse it can be report accurately and quickly.

For my NX-300 the below is right out of the help file. Apparently as long as the radio gets the command in MDC1200 format and the radio's ID matches the one programmed into the radio it works. I see no mention where there is a restriction on what radio can issue the stun command, other than if the MDC code transmit is enabled in a particular radio. You also have to have the right code for the stun command as well. As I mentioned other radios and manufacture's likely implement this feature differently. _______________________________________________________________ Stun Validation Stun Validation allows you to configure whether the transceiver will be in the Stun state by the transceiver receiving a Stun command in the MDC-1200 format. In the case that Stun Validation is enabled in the transceiver, and when the transceiver receives a Stun command and the received ID matches the ID preconfigured for the transceiver, the transceiver will be in the Stun state and cannot be operated. In the case that the transceiver is in the Stun state, and the transceiver receives a Revive command and the received ID matches the ID preconfigured for the transceiver, the Stun state will be aborted and the transceiver can be used. Range: Check (Enable): Enables the capability to disable the transceiver when the transceiver receives a Stun command in the MDC-1200 format and the received ID matches the ID preconfigured for the transceiver. Uncheck (Disable): Disable the capability to disable the transceiver even if the transceiver receives a Revive command in the MDC-1200 format. Default: Unchecked (Disabled) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stun Code Stun Code allows you to configure the code to disable the transceiver which will remain disabled until the transceiver receives a code to revive (enable) it. Stun Code is intended to prevent an unauthorized person from operating the transceiver, for instance, when the transceiver is stolen. When the transceiver receives the Stun Code, the transceiver transmits the Stun-on Tone. When the transceiver receives the Stun Code followed by "#", the stunned transceiver will revive. Range: 10 digits

I’ll have to dig deeper into this. From the quick read through on the specific radio I looked at there wasn’t anything that restricted the stun command being issued by a radio that stood out. The feature is spread out over several different screens as check boxes and other entries so I could have missed some important details. What you mentioned could be right for the models you have. I’m guessing each manufacturer implements it differently. It’s likely different even between models from the same manufacturer. I think some of the analog only radios I have include it too.

In an emergency don't count on any repeaters to be functioning. Some may have provisions for emergency power, many don't. The ones that do will likely be reserved for emergency traffic only, not open for general communications. For the later you'll need to rely on simplex or put up you own repeater and then insure it has power to continue operation in a grid down situation.

That prevents everyone from accidentally stunning each other's radio. As you pointed out you likely just want the main base/dispatch radio to stun any of the radios in the fleet. I just looked at the NX-300 CPS to see exactly how it's done for that radio. You send the stun command by MDC1200 along with the target radio's ID, the one you want to stun, which has to match. That's the validation part. If the ID's don't match nothing happens. In any case you need a list of each radio and their ID. Of course each radio must have a unique ID for this to work down to a particular single radio. I guess I wasn't clear in the other post about the stun code being different in each radio. In the specific example above it's the radio's ID that has to be different. For the several common digital modes, P25 - DMR - NXDN, each radio can have an individual ID associated with it, at least they should have. The individual ID is used normally for making direct radio one-to-one calls so others don't get bothered by messages not for them. So usually this is already likely setup for a business environment. This also might be very handy for a SHTF situation where for COM-SEC you might not want everyone on your radio net to hear a message. For example maybe you have a stash of food and weapons but only trust a few in your group with the location when out and about but your whole party needs to be on the radio net.

Not true about the certification part. For example the NX-300's are Part 95A certified and will do both analog FM and NXDN digital. You just have to make sure you DON'T use the digital half on GMRS. https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/tcb/reports/Tcb731GrantForm.cfm?mode=COPY&RequestTimeout=500&tcb_code=&application_id=66LWdun0EB3LOHyqkdhtQg%3D%3D&fcc_id=ALH378500 https://www.ameradio.com/doc/Kenwood_NX-200_NX-300_brochure.pdf

Oh, one other item. Some of the commercial digital radios will accept remote commands to do things. For example turn on the remote radio's transmitter so the base can monitor what is going on or send the current GPS info for those radios with that feature.

Provided you enable that feature in the radios. Also the stun code has to be set differently for each radio in the fleet. If you set them all to the same code and send the stun command you just killed all your radios that were turned on, on frequency and in range. Oops. Don't forget to keep a record of which radio has which stun code in it.

Yes. There are some caveats. As a few others pointed out be careful with the batteries. Read the guide lines at this link. https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/resources/media/Airline_passengers_and_batteries.pdf Now if you want to operate your radio onboard you need to request permission from the airline(s) prior to boarding. Usually by email or snall mail. I also believe you will need the captains permission as well. I have a buddy do this a few times and the above is in general what he did. I don't have the specifics so you're going to have to make some inquiries. http://www.arrl.org/news/view/passengers-now-must-be-able-to-power-up-some-electronics-during-tsa-screenings

They look a little bit like the cheap CLS analog series radios. I have a buddy that picked up a CLS-1110 and CLS-1410 on eBay some time back. You can't do much with them due to the frequencies are preprogrammed, and you can only pick from the list. I guess if you're miles from nowhere nobody will notice you're on the commercial UHF frequencies in them. https://www.hq98.com/content/Motorola-CLS-1110-1410-Brochure.pdf

You're likely right about that. I haven't written much code in a while. I do mostly power electronics design. From time to time I do get involved with some embedded microcontroller stuff.

That's true. Besides if I ratted them out and the FCC shut them down I would have one less thing to amuse me while monitoring. More to the point they're not on their repeater hardly at all. Only occasionally. Since they share the same repeater channel at the legitimate one, which has a tad over 100 people who have requested access so far, there is some interference. I've been at the mall walking around monitoring the security frequency, house keeping and several of the stores. A few times a conversation was in progress on the legal GMRS repeater when one of the house keeping staff keyed up and jammed the legal GMRS repeater. Apparently the house keeping staff has a tone set for both TX and RX on their radios, which is not the same as the other repeater, and the BCL, busy channel lockout which apparently is not programmed into their radios either. They have no idea that the frequency is in use and just use the PTT and start talking. I heard the guys on the legal GMRS repeater complain about some transient audio issue thinking it was the repeater screwing up. No, it was being inadvertently jammed by the mall's repeater.

What you're referring to is a "bulkhead" connector. It's basically a hard shell version of coax cable with threads on the outside. I would NOT recommend them for GMRS. There is a good engineering reason why they should not be used, and likely not on high VHF either. The connectors are NOT designed for 50 ohm impedance to match the coax cable. This results in an impedance "bump" in the transmission line. The longer the bulkhead connector, up to a point, the worse the problem will like become. The problem will appear as an elevated SWR as measured at the radio. The exact impedance depends on the dimensions of the OD of the inner conductor, the ID of the shell and the dialectic material used. When the impedance is not 50 ohms the bulkhead connector with cause an impedance transformation from one end to the other. The exact transformation is dependent on the impedance of the bulkhead connector and the impedance connected on the end. If these are known the SWR could be calculated. Also being a transmission line the SWR variation will repeat every 1/2 wavelength. The worst are odd multiples of a quarter wavelength. Theoretically a half wavelength should cause no transformation. When talking about "wavelength" this is the "electrical" wavelength, not the physical length which will always be significantly shorter due to the fact the RF propagates much slower in the bulkhead connector thus the RF "sees" a longer length. You will normally see this accounted for by a specification called the "velocity factor", typically much less than 1.0 which is what it would be in empty space. The same thing happens with coax cable too.

That's what I figured. I have the tone. Tested it and it works. And yes I had exactly the same though too.

The first problem was positively identifying the source of the transmissions. I was hearing them on the same channel as a local GMRS repeater I use. I heard references to cleaning, food court etc. With all of the local strip malls, hotels and more within a few miles, many using FRS radios I couldn't ID them. Then one day I heard a reference to a hand cleaning station, then a few seconds later I heard the mall security on the same frequency then on their own frequency. That nailed it. I had the call sign for the mall security frequency. Next stop was the FCC database. I looked up the call sign for the mall's security. Got the FRN number. I was lucky the mall security frequency was registered to the mall and not the mall security company, which is an outside service. Then did a search for ALL licenses under that FRN for the mall. 0002748242 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakeside_Mall I guessed the house cleaning would be registered to the mall. Bingo, there it was. KAB1523 https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=194751 Under the "Admin" tab scroll down to the section "Special Conditions". The exact frequencies are listed there, the pair for the GMRS repeater channel 16, which is where I heard them.

I monitor it frequently but almost never hear anything. With only 5 channels you get a few more ding-dongs running telemetry and the available channels are all gone. That user might even be grandfathered in and thus has priority use. You might figure that out by looking up the license info on the FCC database, you hear the CW ID, that's where you start your search. Just because you hear the CW ID doesn't mean the license is active. The shopping mall by me, for example, the house cleaning staff uses GMRS channel 16 with a repeater. I found their license info on the FCC database. It expired in 10/2015 and was canceled a couple months later because it was never renewed. They have been using their radios and the repeater illegally for the past almost 7 years. Oh, nobody ID's and neither does the repeater.

I believe some antennas have a DC connection from the radiating element to the shield. Grounding the shield bleeds off static electricity buildup and generates less noise in the signal while protecting the sensitive front end components from failure. You can get huge static voltage build ups even on sunny days just due to a small breeze blowing across the antenna. I read a story about one Ham who got knocked off his roof after touching his un-grounded antenna, no feed line attached, due to the static voltage on it. I also know people who will disconnect the coax from all their radios, sticking the ends in glass jars, when thunder storms are moving in to the area.

There are some solid recommendations for used commercial grade radios if you want to go that route. I have primarily Kenwood radios so I'll confine my comments to them. The ones I have and feel they work good are the TK-370G, TK-3140, TK-3170, TK-3173, TK3212 and the TK-3180. The radios are either 4 or 5 watt radios. There is little difference between a 4 and 5 watt radio range wise. They all can do repeaters, split tones, wide and narrow band FM, high and low power, scan and so on. The one I've been carrying around for a while now is the TK-3170. I just like how it works, it's small enough to fit in a shirt pocket, light with the Lithium Ion battery packs, and uses all the same programming cables, speaker microphones, antennas and other accessories the cheap Chinese radios use, which is the Kenwood dual prong "K type" connector. The TK-3173 is the same radio but includes trunking, which you don't need for GMRS anyway. https://mra-raycom.com/wp-content/uploads/simple-file-list/Specifications/portables/TK-270G-370G-Product-Brochure.pdf http://www.swscomm.com/kenwood/TK-2140_3140.pdf http://www.swscomm.com/kenwood/TK-2170_3170.pdf http://www.swscomm.com/kenwood/TK-3173.pdf http://www.deisradio.com/files/TK-2212-3212 Brochure.pdf https://kenwoodsub.dealerarena.com/ProductPDFs/10/TK-2180&3180Brochure.pdf You can find these for sale on eBay frequently. You'll also probably need a new battery pack, antenna and charger base. If you already have the two prong programming cable you're all set on a few of the above. The TK-3140, TK-3180 use a different type of programming cable. I believe all of the above are Part 95 certified for legal use on GMRS. The software isn't hard to find on line with a bit of searching. Be careful of the exact model "Type" you buy used. These UHF radios come in several different frequency ranges. The Part 95 certified ones are the 450 MHz lower end to 490 MHz to 520 MHz upper end. I have one or more of these specific radios and they all will be great on GMRS. Just one caveat about any commercial radio, they are not front panel programmable. You can set some of the function keys to select things like tones etc. but in general you need to software to do a proper job setting them up. Oh, these radios can be "pushed" down below the official lower frequency limit, down to at least 440 MHz or lower, so they are usable on the repeater section of the Ham 70cm band for dual licensed people. Now you can legally have one radio to use on GMRS and Ham with zero modifications or special software hacks required.

Selling an "add on" software by the manufacture for their own radios? A company has to make a decision, are they primarily a hardware vendor or a software services provider. Some try to do both and end up doing neither well. What is being proposed is the business model used by example Motorola, now Kenwood looks like they too are moving in that direction. You pay for the basic software, then again for each additional feature. You can end up paying on a per unit basis too. Now you have to keep track of which radio(s) have what licensed features enabled and so on. Even the code plugs are directly tied to an individual radio by serial number. You simply can't take a code plug for one and directly load it in to another radio identical hardware wise because the enabled features may be different. If the radio programming software is a for purchase type option, well it had better work and the vendor needs to be quick about fixing bugs. Forget about "feature creep" I want what's there already to "just work", no excuses. One way to kill a great hardware product is crappy to non existent support. I have a low threshold for buggy software and even less for vendor excuses why it's not fixed or have no intention of fixing it, ever. The danger with any third party software are several. One most likely the hardware vendor doesn't document the communication protocol nor the code plug content structure. With CHIRP its all done through lucky guess work, reverse engineering and experimentation. No guarantee that a later hardware version won't break to software. Even worse that a bug in the software won't "brick" your radio. A few have had that unfortunate experience. Second while CHIRP presents a consistent user interface across multiple radios you can loose access to features that are specific to a particular model. In that case you're back to using the hardware vendor's software anyway. Remember CHIRP can only implement what can be reversed engineered, and even then the developer may choose to note it's just experimental so any bugs discovered may never get fixed because they don't have the time, lost interest or just don't have the radio to experiment with any longer. Remember it's free, so what did one expect for zero cost, so there is little motivation for the developer to spend heaps of time on it.

More companies are going that route. For hobbyists it doesn’t make sense. Some are figuring out that the hobbyist is the ticket to future business. For example with microprocessor development systems they cost a fortune in the past. Now you can get really cheap development boards and free IDE’s. The idea is once you get somebody, college or university student, familiar with their hardware and software they go on to recommend it once they begin working in their field because they know the products. I would guess a number of people have recommended radios from the major manufacturers for their work place, or for others personal use, based on their experience using second hand radios purchased for personal use and scamming up the software. Myself I’ve recommended a number of Kenwood radios because I know what they can do and the software wasn’t hard to find. I wouldn’t mind their new radios, the NX-5200, 5300, 5400 series, but their change in software licensing is a complete show stopper for hobby use. So, for those models I wouldn’t even take one for free. The software licensing model Kenwood has moved to is expensive, restrictive and in general doesn’t fit how I use and program my radios. I have several computers I use, at work - home - traveling, and having the software tied to a particular computer with Internet activation is a deal killer. The above isn’t just with radio programming software you find this with just about all the CAD software out there too. I use a number for hobby use and they are 10 to 20 year old versions before the companies moved to the same license scheme above or required hardware dongles.

For just a few radios that will add up. For hobby use I couldn't justify the cost. For a business it's a drop in the bucket. That's Motorola's business model. They don't cater to the single user. For a dealer it's like buying toilet paper. Spread the license fee over 100's or radios and the cost is almost nothing.

OK. I read it. Not as expensive as I thought. What happens after the initial 3 years ends? You still can legally use the software? If not that sort of sucks. I find I need to make changes time to time, either changing the configuration, buttons, menus and so on. The other is keeping up with the changes to the local repeaters. Talk groups changes mainly on DMR. Others the repeaters simply fail and never seem to get back on the air so off hunting for another one to use. Or new one pops up. One is never really done programming their radio. Something always needs tweaking or changed.