marcspaz

Hey folks, I am leaving for vacation in a couple of hours and don't have time for a proper test... but I wanted to let you all know that I got the radio back from Midland and I can't be happier. With a quick bench test using low pressure alligator clip test wires for the power supply, I am now getting 48w of output power on both the 462MHz and 467MHz frequencies! I'm sure with a proper power cable, it will be perfect. Once I get home and have a chance to do some proper testing for output power and 12dB SINAD receiver sensitivity test, I'll share the results.

@mbrun I love that feature. Some of my radios also light different colors, depending on if the signal is analog or digital

All great info to add! Thank you both!

Found a 20w... https://www.retevis.com/high-gain-antenna-rhd-701-sma-female-dual-band#C9045AX1

Yes, the mount an associated cable will support a 20w system. The question is, will the antenna you buy support a 20w system. That mount comes in options for antenna compatibility. BNC, SMA and reverse SMA. I would find an antenna you like and buy the corresponding mount. All of the types it supports are handheld antennas. So I wouldn't expect much in the power department. Max is typically 10w. Example: https://www.buytwowayradios.com/nagoya-na-771g.html

I have used glass mounts before. Its a compromise, but they work(ish). It will be better than an HT. Just be sure you don't trash the window seal when you roll it up. I would be more prone to use this... Uses something like superglue to mount to the glass. It will look a lot cleaner and when you decide to remove it, you will never know it was on the glass. https://www.amazon.com/TRAM-1192-Pre-Tuned-150-154-Dual-Band/dp/B07B9V77BH/ref=asc_df_B07B9V77BH/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=270610367741&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14561024409338638345&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9008161&hvtargid=pla-574076094856&psc=1

So, no mag mount, no lip mount, and you don't want to drill holes. Have to be honest, i have no idea what else you could possibly do except use your handheld. I mean, you are asking how to mount an antenna without mounting an antenna... so holding it is all that is left. What kind of vehicle is it? I mean, I put a lip mount on a $100k Challenger Hellcat that was even painted black and had zero issue with the paint. That really is the best method if you want it to work and not have damage.

Hey folks. I have had a small group of people ask me about tones and GMRS/FRS basics in the past week. I figured I would take one of the conversations here and share it for people new to the service. Hopefully it will help you understand Private Lines, Privacy Tones, sub-channels, tones and squelching methods, in general. I am only covering the two most popular in GMRS and FRS, but there are many others available as you move into different radio services and technology. Before we get into what all that stuff is, lets talk about why it exists. Per NOAA and the US Census Bureau, the lower 48 states is approximately 3.1 million square miles. Also, 83% of Americans live on 10% of the total available square miles and 40% of all US citizens live on the east and west coast in counties touching oceans. Following this logic, about 500,000+ licensed and unlicensed operators (estimated by me) are sharing FRS and GMRS radio space, in roughly 310,000 square miles. So, how does 500,000 people in close proximity, sharing 22 channels, all use their radios at the same time without interfering with each other? Motorola brings you PL tones! Lets get this out of the way... regardless of what the manufacturers may tell you or how they label their products, there is no privacy. Period. Private Lines (PL), Privacy Tones, Sub-channels and any other name for the same service, does not stop people from hearing you, it stops you from hearing them. I know... seems like a day in Opposite World, but that's how it works. I suppose the first thing to do is explain what the PL tones really are, what the more common types are and what each of them do. A traditional squelch is a signal level squelch. Meaning, no audio will come out of the speaker until a strong enough signal is received. Then there are also user squelch types. With analog radios, the most common type of user squelch uses encoding called Continuous Tone-Coded Squelch System or CTCSS. This feature is defined as being used to reduce the annoyance of listening to other users on a shared two-way radio channel. So, as mentioned above, its not that you as a person speaking have any type of privacy, but rather you don't have to listen to everyone on the same frequency. Hopefully the third time is a charm. Many GMRS and FRS radios only have simple CTCSS functions called Tone Squelch, often displayed as TSQL on the screen when enabled. This means two things. One is, regardless of what you do with your squelch knob or set your RF squelch to, no audio will come out of the speaker unless the tone you selected is embedded in the signal you are receiving. The other thing it does is, when you transmit, what ever tone frequency you have programed gets transmitted with/in your signal to unlock or open the squelch of other radios configured the same way. There is another method of CTCSS called "split tone". This means that you can use one tone when you transmit and another for your receive. This comes in handy when repeater owners are trying to limit who can access the repeater, as higher cost radios typically have split tone capability, compared to poorly built and inexpensive radios that would be problematic on a repeater do not. Also, this makes it a bit more difficult to "discover" the input tone by using scanning tools. Another function of split tone CTCSS is that you can also set your radio to transmit a tone to unlock a repeater or other radio, but leave your receive tone set to null (nothing). When this mode is enabled, there is typically a display on the radio that either reads TN or TONE. That means you can bring up a repeater or unlock a radio squelch, but also hear everyone else regardless of what tones they are running, if any at all. This is actually a great feature for GMRS radios since Repeater Channels share FRS frequencies and GMRS simplex frequencies. So you can tell if the frequency is in use as well as being able to talk to others who many not be using the repeater. CTCSS is an analog squelching system. There is also a digital squelching system called Digital-Code Squelch or DCS. It has similar use cases as CTCSS, but it is sending digitally embedded numeric codes instead of a sub-audible tone. I apologize in advance, but this next portion may get a little confusing. If you have questions, just ask and myself or one of the other knowledgeable members will be able to help. All of the numbers below are simply random samples I selected for example. Last I checked, there are 38 standard tones and an additional 13 expanded tones (not available on every radio) for a total possible 51 tones and 83 DCS codes. Along with the use examples above, you can get creative with DCS, because we are dealing with binary numbers instead of a tone. You can have the numbers used in a bunch of different combinations. For example, the number 411 in binary is 00110100 00110001 00110001. The reverse of this would be 11001011 11001011 11001110. So we are swapping the meaning of a 1 and a 0. So the combinations could be as follows: Normal-Normal = Transmit sends 411 and your radio squelch only opens when it receives 411 in the standard format 00110100 00110001 00110001. Reverse-Reverse = Transmit sends 411 reversed (or bit swapped) and your radio squelch only opens when it receives 411 reversed, meaning 11001011 11001011 11001110. Normal-Reverse = Transmit sends 411 standard binary format and your radio squelch only opens when it receives 411 in a reversed binary format. Reverse-Normal = Transmit sends 411 in a reversed binary format and your radio squelch only opens when it receives 411 in a standard format. Unfortunately, I am unaware of any radio's that have a DCS option to leave your user squelch open while transmitting a DCS code. If DCS is enabled, you cannot hear anyone else unless they are using the same DCS number and binary combination. CTCSS tones can also be "reversed". CTCSS tones, since its analog, we have a phase reversal, often called "reverse burst" when it is only reversed at the end of the transmission. (Something to Google in your spare time.) On some high-end radios, squelching can get really exotic. You may be able to create your own custom tone instead of using one of the standard tones. You may also be able to combine CTCSS tones and DCS codes. For example: User-CTCSS = Transmit 2600Hz tone, squelch opens with 2600Hz tone. (random number example) T-DCS = Transmit 141.3 tone, squelch opens with 411 code. DCS-T = Transmit 411 code, squelch opens with 141.3 tone. T-rDCS = Transmit 141.3 tone, squelch opens with 411 bit swapped code. rDCS-T = Transmit 411 bit swapped code, squelch opens with 141.3 tone. Now, here is the kind of disappointing part. Some manufactures try to make their equipment sound like something its not. They will use things like there own custom number code to identify a traditional CTCSS code. For example, Midland uses code number 22 (also known as a sub-channel) to indicate the tone 141.3. This makes coordination on tone selection a bit cumbersome between some brands. It also means that if your radio doesn't display the actual CTCSS tone or DCS code, you need to keep your owner's manual handy for reference. So... I don't know if that explanation made things better or worse. LOL Anyway, some companies use verbiage like "Privacy Tones" which adds to the confusion for some people. If you are using a true full CTCSS, it just means you are limited to whom you can hear, but everyone can still hear you. The examples I provided above for DCS are not what actually gets transmitted, but rather a conceptual process to help understand at a very basic level of what occurs, simply to understand the difference. DCS adds a 134.4 bps bitstream to the transmitted audio. To move past concept to the weeds, this video does a great job.

I hate to say it, but sometimes a desired location just doesn't work, regardless of what you do. As an example, there is a repeater I like to talk on that is 35 miles from my VA home, in a North/North-West direction. Due to terrain and atmospheric behavior, if I have my antenna smack in the middle of my driveway, I can work the repeater all day with 1 watt, receive full-quiet, and generally have a great path. Well, if I move the exact same antenna, mast, tripod, etc., 2 feet in any direction, I can no longer hear the repeated and can't bring the repeater up, even with a full 50w. With the antenna mounted on my home's roof, I can hear that repeater and talk on it, but I get poor audio reports and the receive signal is so low that my s-meter doesn't move. It's starting to sound like you may be experiencing a similar issue. Especially because you said if you hold it at an angle in your hand and point it in the repeater's direction. It almost sounds like you are using a crude version troposcatter (oddly just discussing in another thread) to overcome whatever is blocking your signal path. It sounds like its just time to pick a new location.

There is a propagation method called troposcatter that you can use to intentionally talk 300+ mile on UHF, repeatedly and somewhat predictably. If you use high gain parabolic antennas on both ends and aim the beam at the horizon or just above, in the direction of the other target station, the signal scatters off of objects in the atmosphere. A small portion of that scattered signal gets refracted back to earth and heard by the receiving station. Because only a small amount gets refracted, the more power you use and the higherthe gain on the antennas, the higher the likelihood of success. While it does occur in the 450MHz to 500MHz space, the 2 GHz space yields the best success.

If you have a tap and die set, I would add more than the 3 radials to the VHF ground plain to improve performance and help ensure the filters are not overwhelmed. The more radials the better.

Wrong time of the year for traditional ducting... but we have a geomagnetic storm that is starting. It's going to peak in about 2 days and expected to last for a few days. Last time I was in Florida and this happened, I was able to talk from St. Pete to Panama City Beach for several hours a day several days in a row. During geomagnetic storms, more often than not, UHF radio waves get absorbed, causing reduced range. Other times UHF can get reflected like HF NVIS propagation. The easiest way to tell if that is happening now is if you have a GPS system that relies solely on SatComms (not cellular) and you are having accuracy issues or an outage. There are some websites that map this stuff out, too. Been a long time since I looked for them, though. EDIT: This tropo map is indicating that you may be right... how about that! https://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

Welcome! There is lots of good info here. If you have any questions and can't find the answers in existing threads, start a new one and we will do what we can to help. Have Fun!

This^^^^

It gets hard sometimes. Part of the reason I took a break was because I was sick of the arguments. Anyway, I sent the radio back to Midland last week for an alignment and to have the power turned up. Let's see how this goes. When I get it back, I'll retest the power output and blow the dust of the signal generator to test receive sensitivity.

100% agree. Great post.

I only have one problem with this video. He said it doesn't receive as well because it's a ROC. Not only that, he went on the say that every other type approved radio is better than the Midland, but did nothing to demonstrate that. I'm a little confused by this guy (and others I have seen) complaining about the Midland and others being a ROC instead of a superheterodyne. There are ROC systems that outperform some superheterodyne systems all day long and cost as much as $10,000 for amateur transceivers. Flex SDR is a great example. There are POS superheterodynes and POS ROCs. The style of tech shouldn't be automatically discounted as junk or awesome based on design style alone.

I know the SWR and watt meter may not agree with this statement, but I would try this anyway. Hook-up the Comet, put the tip (center lead) of the connector in the radio, but don't let any of the ground connection or collar touch the back of the radio. If it hears fine, you need to test your transmission line. I have experienced your symptoms many times over the years and found that there is a problem with the cable. Typically a full or partial short circuit in the connector during assembly, but also occasionally in the coax itself. If you have an ohm meter, look for a short between the coax center and ground both while connected to the antenna and on its own. Also see if you can find someone with an antenna and coax analyzer. That said, don't discount anything mbrun stated. That is all good info. I personally would start with testing the cable so you know you're not chasing a ghost while using his troubleshooting recommendations.

@axorlov I fully agree. My 40m mobile antenna is dead smack 1:1 in the center of my privileges, but its a giant coil system with an 86" whip. There is zero chance of the antenna being efficient even at 1:1. Given that it slides to 2:1 on the top and bottom of the spectrum doesn't bug me at all. Honestly, while not ideal, even under 3:1 is still workable.

Licensed by rule is the same as CB, correct? No physical license issued, cost or application? Just assumed by use?

G... most modern radios are pretty good at protection circuits. However, nothing is bullet proof and everything can potentially catch on fire. I have been involved in radios professionally and as a hobby for over 40 years. I lost count of the total number of radios and amps have literally caught on fire due to protective circuits failing when other stuff goes wrong. And it didn't matter if the equipment cost $50 or $100,000. Believe me, it can all burn.

QFT!

No, I actually needed it for a trip over the past weekend. I just shipped it out today. However, based on feedback from Midland as well as others, I expect it returned by 02/18. I will share the results as soon as I get the radio back.

If the antenna is higher than the roof line and at least a few feet away laterally, the roof should not have any impact. I will say that you may be getting a bit of a shadowing in the garage, reducing the amount of RF noise you are exposing the antenna too and mimicking filtering. I do this all the time in amateur radio on purpose. I will use a 7MHz antenna to listen to 3.8MHz signals, because there is much less noise due to not being at the resonant frequency I want to hear. Also, a higher gain antenna at a hire elevation is going to here more of everything, including noise. It is going to be almost impossible to diagnose over the internet, but I would confirm your VSWR is good and then start looking at filtering the signal with a band-pass filter.

I care about the losses with a meter on a 200w system. Especially with this 300' feed line running up my tower. Losing ~52w per dB of loss is a really big deal. I mean, who cares about only losing ~13w per dB on a 50w system. Especially when their mobile antenna cable is only 6 feet long. 52w per dB is way worse. See how silly that sounds? Just my own opinion... either you are going to be picky about losses and say " I want every last drop of power" or you're not. And dB loss from meter insertion is dB loss, not some arbitrary fixed wattage. I took a few minutes to measure the insertion loss from my meters. Its about 0.04dB per meter. On the 50w side, it totals 0.4w and on the 200w side it totals 1.6w. I kinda feel like 0.4w isn't a "make it or break it" amount of power loss on a 50w system.