marcspaz

You make a lot of good points that I don't disagree with, but I can't help but wonder how much of your opinion is biased by an extensive background in amateur radio. In the ham world, we are really spoiled with access to top-notch hardware and many Hams like to tinker and learn. So, getting better hardware and going through the steps to build a great GMRS radio is nbd. I think most people who are new to GMRS don't fall into that category. I could be wrong... but I think that's the case and those people just want a turnkey radio. Me personally, I love my Midland MXT400 radios. I have 3 of them in 3 different vehicles and they work fantastic for what I use them for.... including repeater use. Though, my opinion of GRMS is that it's the UHF version of CB, so maybe my expectations are just much lower. Especially when I "need" high quality comms, I have some nice, high performance ham gear. Just a thought... and again, I agree with you. Just don't know that it's the only answer, is all.

Hahaha! I laughed so hard I snorted.

Just as an FYI... kinda related... Today, for the first time ever, I found a repeater that did not pass through tones, nor transmit it's own tone on the output.

I have a home not to far from there. Not many repeaters ID... but the few I am aware of are for REACT emergency response teams, only. Many owners seems okay with people using their repeater as long as you ask... but the REACT systems are off limits to non-members. Even members only use them during drills and actual emergencies.

I had one. I was not a fan and sold it to another member here on this forum. It does have a lot of nice features, but the frequency stability and ability to sustain power levels while transmitting were less than stellar. And the transmit signal is horribly dirty. I also had 3 of their ham 2m/440 radios all break within a couple of weeks of total time. I would have kept it as a cheap solution in my Jeep, since I Offroad all the time. However, with the the doors and roof off, the screen washes out 100%. Oddly, the Ham radios didn't have that problem.

@RCM... lots of good info and points. I appreciate the insight.

I haven't seen that. I'll definitely look through it. Thank you. Yes. I am in Florida currently. I have homes in Virginia (NOVA) and Florida (St. Petersburg & Ft. Lauderdale). I go back and forth between the two. I have a 5 element beam, which should do the trick.

Wow! That's awesome! I'm still trying to learn this stuff. I know book smart often doesn't match reality, which is why I am glad I have folks like you to talk to. That tests sounds like a brilliant idea. I'll have to keep an eye on the geomagnetic weather and see if I can run that test. With any luck, I learn something in the process. LoL I appreciate the convo with all of you. I'm going to take my General exam on November 8. Hopefully I'll pass and get some new gear. Oh, I almost forgot... do you guys (or gals, if you're out there) know how to repeat tropo ducting? I read that fog and cloud cover helps... but should I be mindful of takeoff angles, etc.? Any advice would be much appreciated.

I'm not trying to be a pain, but the previous and current official General Class training material is stating exactly what I said (I copied and paste a portion of it). Also, I have a copy of the current test pool, of which there are test questions on the material specifically asking about these values. I didn't study physics for my profession, but I am currently studying for my upgrade. Like I said... I could be wrong, it could be ducting and not NVIS. However, I am basing my guess on what I am currently being taught to pass the FCC General exam. EDIT: Ignoring the training guides, because they are written by someone for ARRL... this is straight from the official question pool, which I got from the FCC... G3A09 (A) What benefit can high geomagnetic activity have on radio communications? A. Auroras that can reflect VHF signals B. Higher signal strength for HF signals passing through the polar regions C. Improved HF long path propagation D. Reduced So, we are not discussing a regular D layer / F layer skywave propagation method... we are talking about geomagnetic storms causing anomalies that can reflect signals that are not normally reflected back to earth.

It must have been awhile since you studied for your general exam. LoL

That seems a bit harsh. Why do you have that opinion? Serious question. Not trying to be argumentative. As far as I can tell, the 880 has a few nice features over the MXT400 that have very little value (if any) in the GMRS world. Don't get me wrong. It's hard to argue that the price is higher with the Midlands. Also, I have owned several Kenwood radios and they are nice radios, but I also currently own three MXT400's that have been running great for some time now. If you have someone who is non-technical, would like a warranty and a plug-and-play setup with a compliant radio, I would say the MXT400's are the best option. Not 1/10th the value. Just my opinion.

LOL... You may have a point there, and I wouldn't rule out tropo. Typically NVIS maxes out around 70MHz. I use it a lot down in 27MHz for QRP contacts on CB. However, I think its NVIS and mentioned it because high geomagnetic activity regularly creates auroras that reflect VHF and the lower portion UHF, allowing NVIS as far as 400 miles. Especially in the tropics... which is where Florida is and I am. And... even though we are in an aurora "break", the K index is above 5, which is severe enough for NWS to issue an alert for the 24th (when the contact was made) and 25th. Its primarily poleward of 60 degrees Geomagnetic Latitude, but that is enough to impact RF performance globally, wherever an aurora occurs. I could be completely wrong... but I think. I can always test again when the storm is over... that would probably tell me for sure if its tropo or NVIS.

I have something for you guys to try. Near Vertical Incident Skywave propagation. I had my ham antenna about 5 degrees off the horizontal plane, running 35 watts on 446MHz. I made a contact from Ft. Lauderdale to Panama City Beach... 300+ miles. GMRS is in the same service band (UHF 462 and 467) so the same principles apply. You should have someone on the other end to set it up to conduct the Comms. In ham, it's a bit easier because it is a regular contact/propagation method. Using a long whip antenna helps, too.

Well put. I experience the affects of this on a repeater in Virginia pretty regularly. I can be 22-25 miles away and be full quiet and as I drive closer, I lose the repeater completely. I don't actually get back into it until I am about 18 miles away or closer. I think the environmental conditions in the location I am usually at when in that 22-25 mile range is a geographic sweet-spot.

I'm a bit more that 20 miles north... can't reach it. :-(

Oh, man... now I get what you are trying to do. That's actually a good idea. I'll have to think about that for a few. I don't see any legal issues... just need to think of the best method. Split PL for sure.

Don't use an extra frequency. I'm no lawyer, but I think that violates FCC rules. Use one pair for all nodes and overlap coverage, use RF linking, or use internet linking. EDIT: Again, I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I can tell, there is no legal limit on how many approved pairs you can use in an RF linked network. However, your link pairs should use extremely narrow focused beam directional antennas on the lowest usable power, so you avoid harmful interference. Otherwise the FCC will shut you down after a handful of complaints. That image is a mesh network. That is why I told you to lookup how mesh networks work, and then apply the principles to your GMRS Network. Ham clubs and amateur radio repeater owners do this all the time. Especially for regular nets and emergency operations. The repeaters are all linked via an RF PTP controller or via an internet controller. Then, when they have their daily/weekly meeting on the radio, regardless of the location, everyone on every repeater can hear each other. Two members here have meshed their systems together using the overlap method. Its the cheapest and easiest. However, if you happen to be somewhere that you can hear two or more repeaters at the same time, there is a very slight echo. Almost not noticeable. That is the only drawback I am aware of, but together they cover more than 6,000 square miles.

It is perfectly legal to create a mesh network and/or use RF or internet linking. The only problem I see with your original post is, the pairing offsets for duplexing. You have 2 options. 1.) use a simplex repeater which records what it receives and then re-transmits the recording, or 2.) you must use a proper duplex (split mode) frequency pair (462.7250 MHz and 467.7250 MHz, for example). The other 2 things to track is your max transmit power and bandwidth.

The idea/concept you are looking for is an RF-linked mesh network. Same concept as cell phone service. It's legal and easy, but expensive. I have done it for IT wireless networks, but not voice. There are many clubs and owners who have networks that may be willing to talk to you about it. Some of them are members of this forum. I would stay far, far away from simplex rebroadcasting devices. They are more annoying than helpful. I would put them in the category of "when all else fails, its better than nothing."

I'm not hearing anything. We were at the beach today and didn't hear a single person. When I move down here permanently, I'm going to look into stuffing a couple of repeaters on the roof of a hotel or some other building... maybe the SunTrust Financial Center.

LoL I'm pretty sure we've all done it.

The advantage of GMRS is that radios have a 50 watt cap, not a 2 watt cap. Also, you can legally use GMRS repeaters as a licensed user, which can extend your range to 60 or 70 miles, depending on your radio and location as well as the repeater and its location. Also, getting more distance being your goal, more power and things like detachable/exchangeable high gain antennas is the trick. FRS radios don't have removable antennas. Therefore you can't even use antenna tech to your advantage. With regard to HT's, unless you get legacy UHF part 90 radio, you are going to max out at 2 watts on GMRS approved hardware. Some legacy part 90 HT's go to 8 watts. Most are 5 watts. And again, detachable antennas allowing for performance upgrades are standard on part 90 HT's. There's more, but hopefully this is a helpful start.

My longest ground level to ground level simplex contact has been 5.5 miles. Which is an achievement in my area. That was ragged edge. My longest simplex contact, regardless of elevation, was 46.6 miles from Strasburg, VA to Second Mountain, mobile to mobile. It was full quiet. My longest repeater contact was from a mountain top near Glengary WV to Dumfries VA... 70 miles as the crow flies, but 77 miles for the RF path. Also full quiet. I was on a MXT400 with an MXTA11 antenna. Don't know what the other guys had. In the Amateur radio world, I have talked from Flagpole Knob VA (mountain top) to South Houston TX on 446MHz with a homemade 1500 watt amp and a beam antenna. I would love to try a high-gain beam antenna on GMRS, but I don't think its legal because of the limit on effective radiated power... I may research that a little.

Sounds like a void to be filled for an aspiring repeater owner. Get it 200' up and you can easily get a 50 mile radius. I have a duplex in Hollywood that I am on my way to. Stopping in St. Petersburg first, but I'll do some testing to see if I can find d anything when I'm here.

That's a handy tool. Thanks for sharing.