gman1971

@marcspaz, I believe that any dB loss that you can easily get back are always welcome. While .04 dB might not mean much, still helps with other stuff... you are running the signal through another device, potentially causing IMD or PIM.. who knows. Best is just not to run anything and use quality equipment... I've accidentally ran one of my 5550e at full power connected to the wrong antenna, after a few seconds it automatically shut itself off. Same with the Vertex EVX radios. In addition to the radio shutting itself off, the day I soldered the power cable backwards, plugged it, live, into a 5550e reverse polarity.... disconnected it as fast as I could... thinking I fried the radio... nope... the XPR5550e survived reverse polarity from a fully charged car battery just fine!! That is another reason why I don't waste my money on equipment that can catch fire, melt, or blow up, as it usually means something wasn't designed right, or corners were cut to make it "cheaper". Anyhow, JMO. G.

Even less than 10 years in some cases...

Performance is relative to the person's expectations, so things like durability matters to some, others only care about top notch receiver performance (me) others only care about color screen and 500,000 contacts... For example, if you think about it, an APX8000 is basically 4 bands in one radio, effectively its the same as buying x4 XPR7550e radios (new). But then the APX8000 is a brick, I wouldn't want to wear that to anywhere... its big enough that it could be used as a backpack radio... rather than a belt radio... but that is JMO. Range depends on altitude, but the thing about an APX radio over an XPR is filtering, that extra filtering allows it to work inside industrial places chockfull of RFI, etc, and still hold reception whereas most other radios in the market will simply blank out, including the XPR7550e. G.

APX radios, new, are certainly out of my budget and most people's budgets, but that hasn't stopped me from finding many of the XPR7550e/XPR5550e I own, used, for < 300 bucks... Also, reliable radios are priceless IMO, yet people sink 1k+ on a phone... but they cheap out on the radio... I still can't wrap my head around that. G.

I will leave pricing out. This is a pure radio performance comparison.

Yeah, the 8000 is in a class of its own... with a mighty impressive price tag too...

I posted this on another forum, but I figured it might be helpful to post it here as well. This is a comparison of some of the top of the line radios in the LMR/LEO market. Including the mighty APX8000, and the HT1250 from the 20th century... Added the Astro Systems Saber UPDATED: Feb-22-2022

My first GMRS radio... My current GMRS radio... G.

As @mbrun said. Usually you don't need anything adding further losses to the feedline, but when you use the cheap stuff you actually do, because the SWR always creeps up due to many factors, usually due to poorly manufactured antennas/cables/connectors... been there, done that. G.

Sensitivity is only part of the story, which is abused to sell inferior radios like Wouxun, et. all, under the guise of impressive numbers. All manufacturers usually post this figure, trying to fool people into believing their radios have the same or better Motorola sensitivity figures, like the XPR in DMR has 0.14uV at 5% BER, and in FM has 0.16uV at 12dB SINAD. So the CCRs are quick to post equally impressive numbers... but that isn't much different than GMRS bubble pack radios claiming 36 mile range... empty claims. What really separates a piece of trash CCR radio from a top performer like the XPR is the ability to keep such sensitivity levels during normal daily operation under as many different RF environments as possible without either desensing (losing sensitivitiy) or causing intermod (other signals are mixed into your desired signal). That figure, what determines how good a radio really is, its called receiver dynamic sensitivity, or effective sensitivity: which is how much the advertised sensitivity decreases when other radios, equipment, LED fixtures, solar PV panels, electric motors, power supplies, angry RF firebreathing 1400 foot towers ... are blasting RF energy nearby. Most CCR trash will lose about 40 dB of that sensitivity just by being turned on, why? because even if you don't see it or hear it on the radio, b/c you are not tuned to these frequencies, these strong RF signals still exist, and the radio receiver is getting overwhelmed with all these super strong RF signals, so, its like being at a rock concert near the speakers without any hear protection, so what do you do? you cover your ears so your eardrums don't explode, and thus you can't hear anything... the Motorola radios have ear protection built in, so they can hear you just fine. Turns out that ear protection, or front end filtering as its called, costs a lot of money! who knew. Then there is intermod, which is usually present in super-heterodyne conversion receivers due to the mixing of frequencies and lack of filtering, so we are back to the hear protection analogy, so how much narrow/wide filtering is on the intermediate stages of the conversions?, and since most of those cheap pieces of trash dual conversion super-heterodyne radios don't have any, you have your friendly local NOAA popping or getting mixed randomly in your channel. In the end, none of this matters, we can repeat the above paragraphs until pigs fly... people will still buy trash radios under the premise they are getting a good deal, but then it seems it might be better to just tell people to keep buying the garbage radios so I can keep buying the good ones from auction sites at ridiculously cheap prices... works for me! Cheers. G.

Yes, the XPR Generation 2 and above use Rodinia, a direct conversion architecture. Comparing the XPR direct conversion with CCR direct conversion seems a bit too much of a stretch. That is misleading beginners into thinking that they will be getting something close enough in performance to an XPR, when in reality, it couldn't be further from the truth, you get a CCR not an XPR. The same thing applies to the AN/PRC-152, those radios are not to be compared to CCRs just because they might, or might not share just one premise in the architecture design, but the rest is still just that, a CCR. The EVX-5xxx radios from Vertex Standard use a dual conversion superheterodyne architecture, but the 2nd stage has components from the Rodinia architecture. The EVX-S24 uses Rodinia lite architecture, but what exactly that means, it is anyone's guess. Totally agree with your statement: "once basic design is done, they can adapt it to just about anything" which is has lead us to where we are now. A bunch of equally mediocre radios. All CCRs are in generally very low performing radios, some less than others, and as such they used to be priced accordingly. However, now the prices have gone up, but the performance hasn't changed, which is expected from radios that probably cost a few dollar to make, at the most. So, buy at your own peril, but given that CCR prices are rising, I would strongly advice to find used Motorola/Vertex/Kenwood/Icom LMR gear on places like eBay and use that for GMRS... don't be afraid of buying used equipment, it works too! G.

I am reposting this from my other forum... I think @PACNWComms might be interested to know this info... "Well, seems like Motorola might've done something right after all... LOL... The new cradle charger PMPN4576A is a lot smaller, has guides for the radio (might be easier to insert the radio) and then, IMO, it looks a lot better than the old clunker from the 6550 days. The Shop Motorola Solutions page indicates that it will also work with the older radios too. Remains to be seen if it will screw the firmware/calibration of the older IMPRES batteries. Might pick one up just to try it... and if they are good then I'll probably replace most of mine. Also, based on the information available in the brochure, the R7 WILL work with CPS 2.0... and while CPS 2.0 has its own issues, its certainly better than being stuck with "cloud programming""

Unicorns... LMAO

And here it is, the newest R7... IMO, a step backwards, or in what these days would seem like the right direction... https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_us/products/two-way-radios/mototrbo/portable-radios/mototrbo-r7-series.html Same receiver specs as the XPR7550e and the ION, except this one is just "extra crippled", and when you thought the retarded bolt antenna was the worst they could do... Motorola answered the call: "Hold my beer!" So, given it has the same receiver specs, then I see absolutely zero reason to upgrade for my application, part of me is glad because if the R7 would've been a worthy successor to the XPR7550e the temptation to get a few would've been too great to resist... they saved me a ton of money, that is for sure. Oh well. G.

Yep, I still have one of the original 75-820 CB talkies in perfect working condition, got it in '97 IIRC, and a pair of the original Midland G-11 GMRS radios, with an SMA!! ...got them like ~20 years ago. They used to make much better equipment, tho... nowadays is just not better than CCRs. sadly. G.

I was really hoping for a better radio than the XPR7550e, but after reading the FCC application and watching the pictures, there is zero reason for me to upgrade my XPR7550e to the R7 radio. Maybe that is what they wanted... maybe not... but if me, who operates only a small fleet of XPR radios thinks this radio was the wrong thing to put out... I am certain people with a lot deeper pockets than me will think alike. Seems like the new R7 receiver has improved selectivity, that is if the rumors are to be trusted; but that isn't saying much when the 7550e was already pretty much the top of the hill... Its like saying a race car that laps the field at 10 seconds a lap now will lap everyone at 11 seconds a lap... The rumors also claim better audio, with a better noise suppressor, but again, those are minor incremental updates. IMO not worth trashing every XPR accessory produced since 2006 which has worked for the last 3 generations of XPR radios. I always claim the most important thing on a radio is the receiver... but that is based on the assumption that you can actually program the frequencies on it... the best receiver is useless if I can't program the radio because I don't have Internet. The jump from 6550 to 7550 was a substantial improvement, and the 6550 was relatively new when it happened, but the 7550 had a better color screen, vastly improved receiver, and while batteries were changed, the accessory connector remained the same, and used the same CPS, with the same programming cable and process. Then Motorola did the right thing, they took the 7550 and improved it to make it the 7550e, better receiver, and much improved battery life. But now, the jump from the 7550e to R7 isn't the same because there are almost 2 decades worth of accessories and microphones for the XPR radios. And the CPS is not the same anymore, and will likely require internet connection and who knows what else just to get it working. Disappointment, is probably how it feels to me, b/c even though I claimed the XPR7550e would be the last radios I'll ever purchase, I really wanted to be wrong! :D, I wanted this R7 to be the XPR7550e killer so I could get me one with a super-duper fancy screen and become the ultimate snob, calling these ancient XPR7550e obsolete pieces of crap... hahaha (which ironically that is how Motorola called the XPR7550e in their "promotional" video, hahaha)... but I guess some things, sometimes, are not meant to be. As for the Motorola decline, indeed... they went from having radios on the Voyager I & II space probes, radio comms for Apollo missions to "nickeling and diming" customers for entitlements and "radio as a service BS..." G

Well, I really think Motorola made a tactical mistake with this radio... but only time (and $$$) will tell. They should've just improved on the already successful XPR 7550e: add a larger screen, tweak the receiver to make it more selective, change a few bits here and there, heck, maybe even change the outer case a hair, and just call it the XPR7550e2... Keep the 7550e as it is now, maybe do a small refresh of the casing to reflect the new decade, whatever, but add the new one as e2... but keep everything the same. That saves costs and everything... and people will have the option to chose between the e and e2, and a lot of people could slowly phase the 7550e into e2, without having to invest on a whole new set of batteries and accessories, the ION and the NEXT are such impractical radios, they are big and bulky and they don't work well with gloves... hate to say this but those two radios are a probably the two finest Motorolian bean-counter driven epic blunders. IMO. Also, given how the world economic landscape is right now... savings would've made a lot of sense... but whatever... They should allow it to use CPS 2, which is much better than the RM cloud deal and the whole "radio" as a frigging service BS". Soon radios will have PTT quotas... and once you've exceed it you'll have to get online to purchase more PTT presses, or a new plan just to press the dang PTT for an unlimited number of times. I can already see it, R8e "Extra plan" ... "Unlimited PTT presses, with 100 free Text Messages, the first 100 contacts are free, and free 1000 minutes of runtime per month... (*extra minutes rate $0.01 min/per month." For as much as I respect the engineers at Motorola who make wonderful tech, I am developing a strong distaste for the people who are making the decisions... Things can only be improved asymptotically once a certain threshold is reached, and afterwards each iteration is not going to be a 2x times better as the old one, it eventually gets to a state of saturation, like where we are now, where useless features just don't add much to the overall value. Radios are pretty much there, engineers can keep tacking things onto the radio, but at what point does it stop being a 2-way radio and becomes a smartphone? We are almost there with the two pieces of managerial excrement called the ION and the NEXT... This is likely how cell phones evolved from 2-way radios... but now it seems that 2-way radios are determined to go extinct ... G.

Good point on the speaker, it didn't click until you said it... and that is something I hated on the Alinco MD5... And hate to admit this as well, but the R7 looks like a Retevis CCR... hopefully the receiver is not on par with the CCR looks. G.

1) Better Wifi seems moot, maybe the addition of 5.8Ghz... but its a radio, not a phone, nor a computer. We'll see how well the receiver is compared to the XPR7550e. 2) 0.8W isn't much, really. 3) This is the only thing I would consider a true upgrade, again, pending on receiver specs. 4) New battery type for people who have a fleet of XPR7550e in service seems like a logistical nightmare. Now they have to stock on 2 battery types, and 2 different microphones... I really hope this radio tanks, but I don't think it will... they will sales pitch the heck out of it making the "old junk" feel obsolete... @Lscott XPR7550e have been going up in price for the past year or so, so I doubt we'll see a price drop anytime soon. Also, availability of the new radio is yet to be determined, along with price. If the new radio is super-expensive, I see the older TRBO stuff getting close in price to the new R7, but if the R7 is like the cost of a new XPR7550e, I think the XPR7550e stuff will eventually go down in price, once large fleets of radios are dumped, you'll end up like the SL7550 huge eBay dump that were selling for 69-79 bucks for a perfectly working SL7550... we'll see... G.

@Lscott Agree, because a lot of customers just won't have a choice... they will be forced to "upgrade", but I really think they could've made even more money by keeping the accessories/batteries the same. If you improve the radio but keep the accessories/batteries the same, I would think it would've made the decision a lot easier for a lot of people, Then there is the CPS deal... we'll have to wait and see how its programmed, via CPS or via cloud BS... To me, tho, it really looks like the old "junk" XPR7550e is about to become quite affordable! G.

And the new Motorola MotoTRBO R7 is almost upon us... https://fccid.io/AZ489FT7143 Large screen, same antenna, same charger, same belt clip, different batteries and different connector port... so APX/current XPR microphones won't be compatible with it. The only thing I consider an upgrade in my book, from just skimming through the FCC application is the larger screen... I like large screens (who doesn't LOL).... but receiver specs are yet to be seen how they stack to the XPR7550e... and unless they are on another dimension good, I'll stick to the good old XPR7550e for the foreseable future. Also pricing on this thing is going to be APX level of expensive... so at that point I think it will be better to just go with APX radios altogether. I'll reserve judgment until I see some reviews and videos of the radio, but it looks to me like the XPR7550e might be the last of a kind... G.

@wayoverthere Totally agree. I am certain each certification costs money. And some people when they see a Part95a radio they will just run for the hills... G.

but... will it blend?

Certainly, I should probably go to Linux, but I never did get around that. I have way too many things installed running on windows that at this point its just easier for me to stay on Win7 than move to anything else. I upgraded machine a year back, just to get the most powerful machine that still runs Win7 which should last me to the end of the decade... I stopped purchasing new software because none of the new stuff has/does anything I really need... Word? Excel? Powerpoint? I still run my legal Office 2007 copy. Works perfect, doesn't dial home, allows me to type what I want, just like every other software I own, no dialing home, no BS. And since I only visit a few internet sites, so long a browser still works on Win7, I am good. G.

There is an APX900 with full keypad as well. It is basically the same radio as the Callbox SMA XPR7550e. I haven't looked at the internals, but I suspect they are the same. G.