tweiss3
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Posts posted by tweiss3
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Truth. You can spend an entire cars value on a side by side without blinking.
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31 minutes ago, Lscott said:
Another question can those radios be setup for an auto ID using CW? Just about every radio with builtin cross band repeat I know about has the same problem. No way to do an auto ID. The NX HT's I have include a CW ID function, but it's not automatic. You have to assign it to a function key then press it to send.
I have the same option for NXDN. Have to assign a key. Nothing automatic.
34 minutes ago, Lscott said:I looked at the P25 radios I have, TK-5220/5320, and they don't have this feature.
Not available for P25 or DMR on these either.
When I saw this feature in NXDN, I asked a few guys on the commercial side. Most of the time, all traffic goes through a repeater, which takes care of the ID. The rules say, even for itinerant licenses, without repeater infrastructure, have to ID regularly. It is permitted that a mobile or base can do this ID for the entire fleet. I did ask how those running 50 HTs, or running analog, handled this requirement, as I never saw a CW ID feature in any other radio. The response was a shrug. I assume everyone ignores it and doesn't comply.
But it does bring up the question, in amateur radio, even if the repeater IDs, your digital signal doesn't ID (except with aliases) without being decoded, so how are we considered compliant by using voice identification over a digital mode?
32 minutes ago, Lscott said:I don't think I've notice that. Next time I get around to playing with the XPR's I'll look for it.
It is the button right next to write. I've used it once, but not sure if there are other hangups.
33 minutes ago, Lscott said:Anyway that's cool you can do cross band and cross mode repeat. Do you know if the audio is sent in digital format between the two radio decks or is it analog? I'm assuming it is.
I believe this is pure analog audio out the back. The box between the two is just isolation transformers and a solenoid to turn the connection on and off.
The NX-5k comes with a "Mobile Relay Station" built in, that does not require a DB25 cable, but you have to pick the zone/channel in the programming and it can't be changed without a reflash. This is an alternative option, and it works for other radios as well: https://albertaradiosupply.com/collections/kern/products/linking-cable-for-kenwood-tk7180-nx700-nx5000-radios-crossband-operation
45 minutes ago, Lscott said:On a different topic how much has this setup cost you so far?
I don't want to tally it up, and you don't want to know. Just the entitlements the way I wanted it is more than my GMRS repeater. But for a radio system that should last near forever, and the level of interoperability I have in a small simple package, its probably worth it in the end.
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17 hours ago, Lscott said:
I've played a tiny bit with Motorola's RM just to see what it does. It was automatically installed along with CPS 16. I only have a few radios so the extra work isn't worth it for me. I just have to save the code plugs by radio serial number.
I've though about using the Depot software to change the SN on the radios to be the same. Then I don't need to track the code plugs by SN. I'm not using anything that's specific to a radio that's enabled using an entitlement key, I believe, so that might work for me saving the tracking by SN hassle.
I did bugger up one of the XPR6580's I have. Somebody had used V2 on it. I saved the tune data for the radio to a file. Then used the Depot tool to force a downgrade in firmware which also eliminated the trunking crap. At this point I had nothing to lose. Apparently you have to get rid of the trunking stuff to use the in-memory edit software hack with CPS 16 to get the radio on the 33cm band. I tried to reload the tune data and found out there is a difference in the number of parameters so it refused to load. WTF!! Boo-hiss.
Now Motorola in their infinite wisdom uses the auto tune feature, in their test gear, to setup some of the parameters in the radios. The tune utility won't let you manually adjust those specific ones. Anyway I used the Depot tool to change the serial number to match the good XPR6580 I have. I saved the tune data from the good radio and wrote it to the buggered up one. Yeah some stuff very likely is not optimally set but at lest I have a radio that sort of works I can beat around and try stuff out on.
This is why I sort of stick with the older Kenwood stuff.
You can use the clone button, instead of write to send the codeplug to the other radios.
On an interesting note, my Alberta Radio Supply linking cable came in. Now I can do crossband repeat from any channel to any channel in the radio with the push of a button on the front panel. It even works UHF P25 to VHF NXDN, and sounds identical to analog to analog. Nice and simple setup, just connect it to the DB25 on the back of each radio, and set the pin programming.
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Stainless steel zip ties or coax hangers.
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Kenwood's D1N allows you to copy from the zone and paste into excel, and back into the software.
Also, apparently Mototrbo CPS 2.0 just added export/import features.
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@LscottI have not played with data over digital. I have sent messages, but that's simple. I was toying with the idea getting a RSM cable and building a TNC interface. You may have just pushed me to move that way quicker.
My winlink node uses SoundModem by UZ7HO. I also have used Drats before, but I didn't get very far. I will have to look into that again. I need to go send an email now.
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The way I see it, DMR in amateur radio isn't going away, and it isn't going to be unified, so I do what I can to make the best of it.
When I travel south, I use the NCPRN system, which is not internet linked, has a fixed set of talkgroups, and works wonderfully (all the backbone is Motorola only).
For repeaters around here, I did spend a day looking up each in the state and seeing which talkgroups are on it. I only put the Local, the few Ohio Statewide and Echo in my radios. I do keep North America and WorldWide for the few local repeaters. I typically don't like dealing with those insane groups, but I have used it at 2:30 am when I had to make an emergency run to the pharmacy, and it helped keep me awake and alert.
We do have one Megalink that is used locally that cross links YSF, DMR and D-Star. I talk on that some too, but usually only DMR into it, though I have used YSF and D-Star to connect.
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There is a point in the software it is stuck with narrowband. There was another piece of software called Wideband Recovery Tool that you can use to "reset" the repeater, but you then have to roll back to an older version of the software that allows wideband.
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10 minutes ago, Lscott said:
Here is a question I haven't seen talked about.
On many of the commercial grade digital radios they can be operated in analog only, digital only, or in mix mode. The later would have the radio programmed to receive in either analog or digital on a given frequency while automatically detecting which mode is in use and demodulating the signal as necessary. The transmit mode is usually set for either analog or digital exclusively.
I don't have any of my radios programmed for mix mode. Other than monitoring a frequency for activity has anyone else found it beneficial?
Yes, I have. There are a handful of repeaters that do Analog/P25 or Analog/NXDN. For these radios, I put 2 versions in the radio, both are dual mode RX, but the first is strapped Digital transmit, the second is strapped analog transmit (then only 1 is included in the zone scan).
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9 minutes ago, gortex2 said:
I think what @BoxCar meant were none of the major ham manufacturers ie: icom, kenwood, Yaesu. All went different directions with digital. I may be wrong but thats the way I read it.
In the LMR world your right Kenwood, Motorola are both compatible with each other as long as we stay away from specific features.
Ok, got it.
Yes, in the amateur market, Kenwood went with Icom for D-Star, Yaesu made their own YSF, and some of the CCRs tried to copy DMR. I'm still not convinced they meet the DMR standard, or use the correct AMBE+2 codec.
On the commercial side, in terms of use on amateur radio, P25 is compatible with P25 across the board, NXDN is compatible with NXDN across the board as is DMR.
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43 minutes ago, BoxCar said:
Perhaps if the major manufacturers had DMR radios the CCR market wouldn't have as deep an inroad into the ham market. Each has their own digital scheme and they are incompatible with the others. The CCRs provide hams with equipment that works across brands and, once it's configured, works well enough. Yes, they could buy public safety grade radios but they lack the flexibility to connect with a multitude of available DMR repeaters.
This statement is confusing and possibly incorrect. For ham use, all the manufacturers that offer DMR conventional (not trunking) are compatible with each other. Ham takes many things out of the picture that are not necessarily compatible (encryption, RAS, etc.). But for conventional DMR in the clear, Motorola, Hytera, Kenwood, etc. are all directly compatible.
As for the CCRs, I would say they are the ones that are truly incompatible. The don't offer some of the beneficial features DMR offers. I have even asked many of them if they could/would implement conventional roaming (offered by any public safety manufacturer) and was told it's not a thing, and no, they won't even look into it.
Is there something I am missing in your statement above?
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I use Kenwood TK-8150 for mobiles in the car and in the shack. Great radio, and sounds wonderful. As a plus, I have the remote head kits.
- WRVQ574 and wayoverthere
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I thought about this thread last night.
I'm guessing (only a guess), that he isn't missing anything. I think what he is seeing on the radio is the CW ID broadcasting with no tone, and therefore he won't hear it with the receive tone programmed. This is how my repeater is programmed. He isn't missing someone coming back to him, or other chatter. The reason I think this, he hears the tone squelch when he contacts the repeater.
- SteveShannon and WRUU653
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7 minutes ago, Wrvq441 said:
Do any of you that own repeaters use some type of auto ID?
If so, is it as simple as plug and play, or how does it work.
Yes, I spent some time doing a search on this forum and most likely used the wrong words because I couldn’t find what I’m looking for. I also searched the web and a few radio sale places.
Thank you in advance for your input.
The CW ID to identify the repeater? Yes, mine has it, it is built in, and set to 15 minute interval, but I doesn't broadcast if there is no traffic.
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Usually the roger beep is overdeviated and can nearly blow your eardrum out if you are using a bluetooth earpiece. I've had that a few times where I ripped that thing off my ear cause it hurt. MDC & FleetSync tones are much more subdued, as are courtesy tones, usually at 80% deviation or less, and much easier on the ears.
- timclark82 and wrtq652
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7 minutes ago, PACNWComms said:
Something else I "need" to have. I also wish more radios could be had with a handheld remote control head like this as well. Thank you for posting the link, I may have to spend some money myself.
They have only been available for about a month. I also haven't seen a good review of the microphone that wasn't directly by the reseller. I'm interested to see how well it works, and the battery life observed. It's been advertised as "coming soon" for over 2 years. I have my doubts that is because it was perfected.
I agree with you, HHCH should be an option for more radios. I thought about it for a while, but finding one is harder than deciding to spend the money on one, which is hard enough considering how expensive they are.
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24 minutes ago, Sshannon said:
But do you need the isolation that comes from vertical separation if you have duplexers on each of the two repeaters?
I guess I could believe that transmitting on both repeaters at once into a single antenna would cause each other interference.
It depends on a lot of things. A mobile duplexer, or the little duplexer that comes in the RT97, yes, you will need the isolation. The notch is pretty big and may not be specific enough to provide isolation between repeaters. On sites that have multiple same band repeaters, some have combiners, some have duplexers & combiners to get enough isolation.
- SteveShannon and gortex2
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2 minutes ago, WRVD377 said:
I think I read somewhere that a person can put one antenna higher than the other in order to make that work and not get the desence. Again I am not an expert but I did find video about it in all my reading. That person claimed vertical separation rather than horizontal less feet and was not specifically about GRMS.
Correct, isolation can be provided by vertical separation. At 462MHz, you need a minimum of 25' horizontal space between top of lower antenna and bottom of higher antenna. Add in they must be direct one over the other, its a bit harder to do while thinking about tossing this up on a rain silo.
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46 minutes ago, Lscott said:
There are different types and levels of encryption. How much of that is operational with other radios and manufactures?
I'll send you a PM.
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I've got a XTS2500 for 900 P25. I'd like to eventually get up a 900 repeater, probably a quantar setup for both analog & P25, but that is a whole different battle.
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22 minutes ago, pcradio said:
It would be good to have a sample sound output from the various digital modes made from same voice input. I do not like the sound of DMR and what it does to the human voice. For professional applications, sure, cram everything to utilize your limited frequency.
While AllStar is a linking protocol, and not a mode, at least it does so using VoIP codecs like G.711 (ulaw) which sound fantastic, G722 being the best. In my opinion, that is the direction we need to go as a group. When you hear a proper voice codec next to DMR or the other popular digital modes, you won't want to go back.
So I would like to see radios use G722 and then package that in a way for simplex and group repeating situations. We don't need to do what others are doing just because the word digital is being thrown around.
Digital, with limited sampling is not better, it is worse.
This is VHF, recorded direct to SD card.
P25:
NXDN:
I need to find a way to record DMR on one of these radios, I only have 1 that has the SD card recording entitlement.
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3 hours ago, Sshannon said:
Of all those, which has the most pleasant voice reproduction?
Both DMR and C4FM make people sound like they’ve been drinking, sort of slurred. Those are the only ones I’m familiar with.
How do you use NXDN and P25? Are those for amateur radio or commercial applications?1) I will rate them in according to my preference on audio quality: NXDN - P25 - YSF - DStar - DMR. This does not indicate my preference for the mode overall, just how it sounds. Let me explain a bit more. Lets be honest, turning the volume up too high always makes received audio sound badly. This is often exacerbated by a quiet room/office and some auto reflecting off walls, ceilings, desks. Take that out of the equation, walking around the house, a shop, outside, or even in the car on the go, the above is how I think they sound. And it is not using a hotspot, though PiStar supports all 5, but using them either simplex, or via repeaters on local use (of local talkgroup). NXDN and P25 are very much almost the same great sound, I just can't get over the bandwidth use of NXDN very narrow, which also pulls it's lead ahead. Keep in mind, this is based on use in amateur radio, which also has other factors. Don't get me wrong the $15 radio has it's place, and it has helped a more wide spread support of DMR, but it has also ruined DMR at the same time. That being said, if I were to get business licenses, DMR would be one of the emissions types I would have on the application. It has it's place, but the cheap stuff people use is just not setup correctly, and ruins the experience.
2) I use these on amateur radio, and their use is nearly identically as DMR, but with some minor differences, and maybe 1 or 2 major. Forgive me if this is too broken down, but I'll explain. As you know DMR uses a color code (CC) as it's squelch (like CTCSS), has 2 timeslots, and you must pick a talkgroup. All 3 must be programmed for DMR to work. It's not that difficult, but yes, you can get lost pretty easily if you don't understand how and why. NXDN & P25 (conventional, we can only realistically use conventional in amateur radio) do not have timeslots, there is 1 voice path. If you are using a repeater that is based on PiStar, similar, or even a hotspot, both require talkgroups to be chosen. Same as DMR, chunk a TG and it gets linked, chunk the disconnect TG, it clears. The really cool thing about these two modes, the repeaters (if a true digital commercial repeater) can do mixed mode, meaning it can use both Analog/P25 or Analog/NXDN, and change on the fly based on signal received. There is a repeater northeast of me that I get in range every once in a while. In P25 mode, using my 5w HT, while driving, I cut a conversation short at 16.8 miles because I wasn't sure when my range dropped out, but the gentlemen I was talking to said I was clear the entire time. The other positive is when programming the radio, you can put in a NAC (P25) of F7E or RAN (NXDN) of None and it acts as carrier squelch, so you can listen to all digital traffic on that frequency and not need to track down or log a NAC/RAN. NAC/RAN is still needed on transmit if set on the repeater, but for listening to other stuff, digital CSQ is wonderful.
2 hours ago, Lscott said:How much did Kenwood charge you for the license keys for the different modes? I have a buddy that was gifted a NX-1300, the non display model, with NXDN only. I understand another license key, for DMR, can be loaded into the radio and the DMR firmware flashed. Then to switch between modes you have to re-flash the mode specific firmware. I was told the license doesn't need to be reloaded. I have the firmware for both. I have the programming software now I just need to find a display version of the radio, preferably DMR, but if not and it's NXDN I could switch it so long as I don't get raped on the license key.
The license is not much for DMR. If you really want to know, PM me, and I can point you in the direction I got my entitlements and approximate costs. P25 is the one that hurts. And FPP isn't exactly cheap, but worth it on VHF (and UHF if you need to change digital stuff around). But yes, once you add an entitlement to a radio, it is permanent to that radio serial after 72 hours. No need to re-enable it. You would switch by loading a new codeplug. If I remember correctly, the NX1200/1300 requires KPG-D3N, which is interesting.
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I have D-Star, YSF, NXDN, P25 and DMR, each is covered in both VHF/UHF with HTs and Mobiles.
Current daily carry is NX5200 with P25 & NXDN and NX5300 with P25 & DMR. I have a dual deck NX5700/5800 ready to go in with identical programming as the HTs.
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How do you plan on carrying this "field kit"? If it's in a trailer and you have room to mount large coils on the wall or in a drawer? The reason I ask, my HF kit for the field has 20' of RG-8x, which is pretty bulky if you are going to carry it. For UHF, beyond having the radio connected directly at the push up mast, you will need at a minimum LMR400, and probably hardline, like the 1/2" LDF mentioned above. Going to 1/2" hardline reduces your loss at 100 feet from 2.7 to 1.5, which is huge.
Which Digital Voice Modes Do You Have Equipment To Operate?
in Amateur Radio (Ham)
Posted
No, I have not. There is supposedly a pigtail for the portables, still waiting on part number and cost. I may start playing with this.