WRKC935

OK, been meaning to explain this and this is a good time. The commercial guys here will all tell you there are three tests that we perform when installing a new repeater system out in the field. First test is 12dB sinad with the service monitor connected to the duplexer wit no antenna. Second test is for something called isolation. We drop the input signal down to where the repeater squelches, or stops transmitting and then increase the signal slowly until the receiver just opens back up. What we then look for is the repeater to drop again when the transmitter comes up and then drop back out. If the duplexer isn't tuned correctly, the repeater will 'ping pong' up and down because the TX frequency is getting into the receiver and deafening it to some degree. If it does start to ping pong, we increase the signal level in in TENTH's of a dBm until it stops. At that point, we usually stop the testing, touch up the duplexer tuning and run through all the tests again. The last test is antenna desense. An isolation Tee is connected to the duplexer antenna port and a dummy load is then connected to the output. The tap port has signal injected on it to the point the receiver opens and the signal level is noted. Then the signal is removed, and the dummy load is unhooked and the antenna is connected. The signal is injected again on the tap and increased to the point that the receiver opens again. The difference in the required signal level is the antenna desense for that antenna and repeater system at that site. Now, here's how that applies to what YOU are seeing. With the 12dB Sinad test, you need to understand what that measurement is. That being a ratio of signal to noise in the receiver. Here's a good explanation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SINAD But it's NOT the minimum signal level that the repeater can hear and open up. That is actually the LAST test (antenna desense) where the signal level is just above the noise floor enough for the receiver to recognize it and hear the PL /DPL. On a repeater running CSQ, the level is going to be lower, because it doesn't need to hear the tone above the noise, just the RF. These readings are gonna be 6 to 12 dB different in their levels. And the basis of where I make the statements about needing to be able to increase signal level a BUNCH to get a noisy signal to be full quieting. It's not a watt or two, unless you are only running 1 watt or less to begin with. That's based on using dB and specifically dBm numbers for power output in place of watts. An example is 30dBm is 1 watt, 33 dBm is 2 watts, 36dBm is 4 watts. on the upper end, 50dbm is 100 watts and 53dBm is 200 watts. So when you look at it that way, and start realizing that to go from just opening a repeater receiver at -119dBm to 12 dB SINAD at -110dBm or so, that 9dB signal level change is HUGE in the percentage of power change when you convert it back to watts. And the best part is you can calculate all this if you have the information about the equipment in play. You need the antenna model (so you know the gain) the coax type and length (to calculate the cable loss) the number and type of jumpers (again cable loss) the duplexer model (insertion loss). Then you need YOUR power level in watts (converted to dBm) and your antenna system numbers as well. The last part is the distance between the antenna's to calculate something called PATH LOSS. With all that you can calculate what the actual signal is at the repeater input from your radio transmitter from miles away. And yes, I have tested this and found that it's accurate within a dB or two. The difference is from signals that bounce off other things and arrive out of phase to the antenna and cancel put part of the signal. This is called Rayleigh effect. (Again, go look it up, NOT typing it all out) but that also explains sitting in traffic and the repeater fading out. Moving 2 feet and the repeater signal coming back.

Welcome to the confusing task of programming Motorola Radios

I have used other 'stubby' antenna's. Mostly for Motorola radios, but the antenna really don't care what radio it's attached to. Stubby's are fine if they will put out enough signal and receive enough signal to function in the application you are trying to use them for. If you are using a repeater that you are already noisy into with a standard antenna, you aren't gonna have much luck with a stubby. If you have a good signal, the repeater is close, or the other radio you are talking to simplex is close, then again, not an issue. You're not going to bounce signals off the moon with a stubby antenna. But you aren't gonna carry around a 20 foot dish to talk simplex with that would bounce signals off the moon when powered with an HT either.

On the opposite end of this spectrum. I run 6 repeaters off of 24 volt power. The battery plant (commercial term for battery strings and a charger) is 5 strings of 105 AH 12 volt AGM batteries and a modular rectifier (charger / power supply) that is 180 amp out at 48 volt full load. The supply is grid powered right now, but none of the radios connected to it even notice when the AC power fails. At my current load the batteries would carry that equipment for at least 2 days. The 24 volt power is derived from 48 to 24 volt inverters that are 40 amp each. There are 5 units that are setup in parallel for a total output of 200 amp at full load. I am no where near that and have run the repeaters on 2 of these units with my current load. Future plans I am going to install a 100 amp 48 to 12 volt buck converter for 12 volt items and additional DC distribution setup for 12 volts. I also am going to be installing a 48 to 120 volt AC inverter for the few devices that can't be run on DC power. Some networking equipment just doesn't support DC power or the power supplies to run off DC are silly expensive. Obviously solar and wind are things I am going to be looking at in the future as well for charging and carrying the site load. The problem is as the static load increases, the amount of solar needed increases as well. Meaning if I have 20 amps of static load (load without radios transmitting) I need at least 30 to 40 amps of charge current from the solar / wind system to maintain the charge in the battery plant and carry the static load. So it's not as simple as getting some 12 volt panels and connecting them to one or two batteries through a small charge controller. Systems like that are GREAT for home installs that are for running radios and some LED lighting. And that lighting is of course available from RV stores. But it's not enough to run bigger loads. Currently the stuff I have on the plant: two GMRS repeaters Two ham repeaters two high power base radios (repeaters configured as base stations for simplex operation) Two 800 repeaters for a public safety backup system for the county ADREN MESH system (ham WiFi) multiple microwave links for the site and public safety IP console system connecting a number of base radios The base radios (rack mounted mobiles) are on a second battery plant that is 12 volt. It consists of a 75 amp charger / supply and 6 12 volt 75 AH batteries. That 12 volt system also runs my 2 HF radios.

This is very true. Using the term 'illegal' isn't correct. And Randy's right, the FCC regulations are not laws. They are codified regulations governing the different radio services. Further, they are only enforceable by the that agency. Which is why they show up for inspections and issue "Notices of Liability" not citations and Law Enforcement is only involved to enforce their ability to inspect / seize equipment if it comes to that. I believe that the citations/ fines issued are civil forfeiture as well. But I don't know that for certain.

First thing to understand is what is fair to good signal level in the radio. -95 dBm is whats required for an ERRS for in building public safety coverage. That's a noise free solid signal. -105 is the very beginning of noise in the receiver on a WIDE BAND FM signal a typical radio will hit 12dB Sinad at somewhere around -112 to -115 dBm that should be a full copy signal with noticeable static in the background. So now we get to structure attenuation. And that's going to depend on the structure, and the materials used. Assuming here that you have a standard stick build (wood 2X4) framing. Drywall interior finish and vinyl or wood siding exterior. The reason I know it's not stucco is that is applied to chicken wire which has MORE attenuation than the vinyl siding. Metal siding is higher yet. And the house is a bit older as the windows are probably not E-glass which has a very high attenuation level, comparable to sheet metal. Stick build vinyl is going to have somewhere around 10dB of attenuation, stucco is around 20dB and metal is going to be 30dB plus. I have walked building that were sheet metal exterior next to a transmit site (less than a mile) and had no usable (less than -105dBm signal level inside the building) with a -50dBm signal outside. And hearing the repeater isn't what really tells me the attenuation level. It's the fact you can talk to the repeater. The portable output signal is down at LEAST 12 dB from the repeater, assuming that you are running at 50 watts out, losses getting that down 4 to 6 dB in the cable and duplexer, and a modest gain antenna. The portable has 4 watts, and no real gain from the antenna. It's all numbers. power out - duplexer loss - cable loss + antenna gain = ERP ERP - path loss - building attenuation +/- antenna gain = signal in the radio All that should be calculated in dB. Convert the power output from watt's to dBm and then run the numbers. They will be right as long as the information is correct and will never lie.

Wait, what AI engine created that post? Or where did it get copied and pasted from? Training ground for engineers, and emergency responders? The engineers thing is laughable at best, and I have NEVER even heard of ham radio being a contributing factor in someone becoming a cop or fire fighter. Now I have seen MANY a wacker that couldn't get into public safety for various reasons end up with a ham license. Never the other way around. Others are welcome to comment here, if they have ever heard such a thing, but I'm not gonna hold out much hope. The engineer's thing. Most new hams are not even good appliance operators. They care little about the quality of their equipment (Baofengs) and for a long time they were getting their license for other reasons like joining a SAR / CERT group and it was sort of a requirement for those groups. The continued push that ham radio is for emergency communications promises the ARRL a new batch of members / license holders every time there is some significant incident that other types of communications fail and the otherwise uninformed general public see the statement that "Ham Radio Saves Lives" and go see about getting licensed. Some get as far as finding out about the tests and that sends them to GMRS or drives them off all together. A few go the full route and get licensed, buy a radio and listen to it for a month or so and put it in a closet. VERY few become anything resembling active in the hobby. Fostering innovation? Gonna ask, what innovative thing that had made a significant contribution to radio communications has come out of ham radio in the last 50 years? I just had this 'argument' with a bunch of backwards thinking hams that were certain that StarLink was going to be the end of EMCOMM (emergency communications) with regards to ham radio. And if they don't figure out how to adopt it and other newer technologies, then yes, it might do just that. The whole ad-hoc, no infrastructure, radio to radio communications thing is great if two things are present. First is the distances are short. No one is going to be of any assistance with a flood or tornado if they are on the other side of the country. Those sorts of things are localized. The communications need to be localized as well. FEMA and other state EMA agencies have all but completely gotten away form HF as a resource, because it's of limited use. They bring in trailer mounted towers and VHF/UHF/800 equipment to restore communications for public safety. So if you have no infrastructure, the other thing you need is enough people to bridge the gap in coverage between where you are and where the people are you need to communicate with. That requires operators in specific places to relay traffic from you to the other party. Ham radio was in the past fairly active most places. Now that activity is significantly lower. And even if those people are in the right locations, are they going to be willing to participate and pass traffic.

Well, it's provoked. Just maybe not here. If you happen to log into eham and look in the EMCOMM section, you can see a multipage show about how StarLink is now going to replace ARES and hammie EMCOMM. And me trying my level best to explain that the ONLY thing that will bring about the end of EMCOMM in ham radio is the narrow minded ham operators that feel that EMCOMM can ONLY take place on the ham bands, with some sort of voice communications. If a microphone isn't involved, and it's not in the assigned frequency spectrum of the ham radio allocation then it's 'not real EMCOMM'. And they just keep coming out of the woodwork furthering the narrow minded thought processes. But they refuse to see StarLink as a possible tool in their EMCOMM toolbox for data transfer and instead poo poo on the idea of it completely. Bringing up that ham radio is ad-hoc and redundant and in their minds will still save the world from the evil Motorola radio systems. Mind you.... and I can't believe I am saying this. I agree with Randy on a good bit of his view on ham radio and the SAD HAMS thing. Keep in mind that on November 6th, I renewed my license for the 3rd time.. I have been licensed since 94, making it over 30 years a ham. But I keep getting reminded. Just the other day, I actually heard a couple guys using the repeater. So I piped up and attempted to join in. I finally got recognized, and even after being recognized and spoken to, the two original members of the conversation would continually short key. When I said something about it, the guys reaction was, "yeah, I tend to do that most of the time". fully admitting that he steps on everyone else and just doesn't care. I took the high road and left the 100 watt radio in low power and tried to maintain a turn, but they just weren't having that. I choose to take the high road and maintain two ham repeaters. Keep tossing my call out on the local repeaters to see if there is anyone to talk to. And maintain a presence. Which is more than most it seems.

Not watching the video.... this seems to be turning into some Hammie ARES EMCOMM thing that would infer that if she had a yellow vest and a Baofeng radio that she would have been fine because "Ham Radio saves Lives" Which is a true statement ..... because laughter is the best medicine.

While there has been a significant increase in GMRS license holders and repeaters in recent years. Not every corner of the US has a GMRS repeater. There is always a possibility that you are having issues with what you are doing with the search, it might be that there are simply no repeaters in your area. If you are willing to give a basic location of where you are, one of use can take a look and see if there are any repeaters that you just aren't seeing or if you don't have any coverage in that area.

Yeah, and I am the guy that has some of those 12K radios. And I can say that wide band FM is wide band FM. Same thing coming from a 38 dollar Baofeng and a 12K buck Motorola. Same thing with wattage, if 4 watts is measured at the output of one radio, and there is 4 watts measured from another radio, that's the same power. The 12K buck radio may continue to work in a high RF noise environment when the lesser radio gives up and looses the ability to lock onto the signal of interest, but that's the difference. The 38 dollar may start mixing those other signals that are getting into the transmit circuits and begin to have issues on the air with a clean signal, but again, 12K gets you a LOT of shielding that's not going to be in the 38 dollar radio. But outside of that, FM is FM. If the 38 dollar works at all, it's going to work the same if it has the same power output and deviation (modulation) as the 12K Motorola. And the ham / GMRS operator that has that 12K Motorola will NEVER be able to give you a reasonable and honest answer on why they 'need' that radio. Because no one will ever admit that it's purely vanity that gets them to drop the silly amount of money required to get such a radio. There is no special function that makes those radios superior to even the cheapest radios in 99% of the operations they are expected to perform, which is talking on the local repeater. I have Boafengs too. I can't take them downtown on rooftops and expect them to work. The RF noise in those locations drive the radios nuts. My high dollar Motorola works in those situations just fine. But if I am out in the country at home, no one can tell if I am talking on the Baofeng or the Motorola. While they don't sound exactly the same because that 12K gets you a bunch of audio processing, dual mikes, noise canceling and other stuff that 38 bucks isn't going to buy, you have to decide if 12K is too steep a price to pay so you can talk on the local repeater while you're on the lawn mower with all the engine noise being canceled out or not. To address the FCC type acceptance thing mentioned by others. If you don't understand the type acceptance procedure, that is done by the manufacture, not the FCC. Well you might read up on that before stating claims about it. Manufactures do their own testing. And may or may not be required to submit equipment for testing to the FCC for additional testing. And even when there is a requirement for sending in radios, it's up to the manufacture to ensure that the radios going out the door for sale are the SAME design and function as the radios that were submitted for testing. Some manufactures do verify that every unit is equally good as it leaves the factory. And some manufactures make 'wonder knives' like the 'as seen on TV' ones that saw bricks in half then slice a tomato. Can a knife be made to do that. But when was the last time you were at a state fair watching the guy saw a copper pipe in half and then cut bread actually sell the knife HE'S using, not the ones on display. Or randomly take one of the ones for sale for 19.99 and do those things with it, and then attempt to sell THAT knife. Because NOTHING about the knife the seller is using is the same as the ones you will go home with other than looks. Now, would China based companies do such a thing? Well they put lead in toys, ship Fentanyl to us, send helium balloons into our country to spy on use, and a full list of other things that would fill a page here but then verify that every last radio coming out of their factories is the same as the one they sent for testing that cost 10 times to make? I am not going to hedge my bets on that. But you are more than welcome to.

First off, don't let SAD HAMS drive you from that service. They can be told to go kick rocks just like anyone else. Having that license doesn't make them special, even if they are convinced it does. Ham radio can be an enjoyable hobby and pastime and a few clowns shouldn't turn you off from that endeavor. I just renewed for the third time four days ago. So 30 years of being a ham. Yes, I have told people to kick rocks that were hams. Told it to a GMRS operator or two as well. The fixed antenna could be a couple things. One not mentioned is does the radio have the full complement of FRS channels in it? FRS is a low power service that is tighly regulated and the equipment has certain stipulations as well. One of which is the interstitial channels are .5 watts and the radio can't have a removable antenna. That is to keep the talk distance to a minimum. So that's worth looking into as well.

Many here have stated what GMRS was actually setup to do. Provide extended family and small group communications beyond what the FRS service could. It was a medium power service that allowed fixed stations (base setups with elevated antennas) and repeaters for the extension. That is what is was originally for. And the rules and regulations pretty much bear that out. But that's not what it has turned into. I will preface this with the fact that 3 days ago I renewed my ham license for the 3rd time. That is a 10 year license, so I have been involved with ham radio since 1994, so 30 years at this point. And ham radio wasn't ever really to be a social gathering place. It was for the furtherment of communications through experimentation and to build a pool of qualified electronics technicians that could provide support for technology in the future. Of course, ham radio isn't that any more either. But, GMRS is now a conduit for social interaction. This was once done with CB radio. A great many people had radios and they communicated throughout their community with other individuals in a social manner. AKA they would get on the radio and BS back and forth. It wasn't for building RF techs, radio nerds, or specifically for emergency communications. But ANY radio service can be used for EMCOMM. It's just going to be limited by the regulations and equipment available for that service. But GMRS is now a gathering place for folks to chat with each other via voice communications. My guess is that COVID may have sparked renewed interest in having a reliable conduit for communications that didn't require face to face interactions and was always readily available. I wasn't personally involved with GMRS during COVID. But I have since done testing and continue to test coverage and gather radios for deployment for family so that the path of communications can't be easily severed. My repeater site will soon have alternative 'off grid' power in addition to the current grid, battery and generator power that is in place and functioning. Single 'car' batteries with a single 100 watt solar cell and charge controller will maintain power and limited light for family members during a disaster situation so we can check in with each other and maintain some sense of normal during an abnormal situation. But again, that's not what it was really for. It just lends itself to that function. But in the end, it still is a conduit for social interaction. And that is a good thing.

When the radio's you have in your vehicle cost more than the car did. When you put a second mortgage on your house (rental property) to buy a 240 foot tower site. When you are spending 200 plus dollars a month on running your own tower site. (taxes and electric) When people drive by your house and know that you own the tower site down the street because of the antenna and microwave dish array you have on your roof. When you still enjoy operating radios socially (HAM and GMRS) after 15 years of working on radios professionally. When you have decided that you would rather do radio work after having a job offer that was 40K more than what you are currently making.

Yeah, if your not getting it by -101 then somethings not right with the receiver, at least if it's of good quality.

Accurate coverage mapping requires a number of different pieces of information to run the calculations against to generate a map. Some of those are power from the transmitter, duplexer loss, antenna cable loss, antenna gain, antenna height at the center of the radiation pattern, antenna pattern and down tilt. What is calculated is path loss based on the transmit and receive frequencies, losses due to vegetation, buildings and ground cover. This is selected in the coverage mapping software during the configuration and data input. You will also need to supply the subscriber antenna gain, transmit power and antenna height so that the talk in can be calculated. A base radio will work farther than an mobile with the same power output because of antenna height, a mobile will work better than a portable due to antenna gain and power output from the portable being typically 10dB less than the mobile. Again, there is software out there to run the numbers. But without the REAL numbers, it's garbage in and garbage out.

Yes, that's true. No one should expect white glove rescue service from the government entities. Now this isn't a prepper site. I am not going to go into physical security, food storage, bug out planning or any of that. But we do discuss communications and radio here. So that piece of a bigger plan is appropriate for this site. And the hammie thought process isn't one that needs adopted here either. Here's the issue with calling for help. You have to give your location to direct the assistance to you. Now if you are unprepared, and in a life or death situation, you really don't have a choice. Outside of that, discussion of locations, travel plans, specific meeting locations and the like are NEVER to be discussed over the air. If you wouldn't tell your neighbor, or fellow radio operator friend that you have 10 grand in your safe (if you did) because of trust issues, then you don't give out that sort of information over the air for ANYONE else to hear. All this is referred to as operational security. The OPSEC term you see from time to time. And if you are going to communicate with others in a situation where the government isn't there to help,you need to have previously established a communications plan for all involved parties and stick to that plan. First part of the plan is scheduling. And contrary to what might seem reasonable of same time every day, that's NOT the way to go about it. Your communications need to switch times in a seemingly random way. This can be based on the day of the week, but shouldn't repeat for at least a month. Meaning if Monday comms are at 10 and 6 then the next day needs to be 8 and 7. The following day should be 10:30 and 5, and you can continue to repeat a pattern that while you and the other parties know what it is, someone monitoring will not easily see what's happening. And then can't track your signal by waiting for the specific time you are going to be talking. Changing frequencies, is also a possibility depending on what you have at hand for communications. And remember, this is a SHTF situation, so the rules are sort of malleable. But keep in mind a couple things. First is only using as much power as needed to communicate with the other party. Less signal is less distance, meaning that fewer people with ill intent can hear you. Names, landmarks and such need to not be directly named. Other 'coded' references to those things need to be established prior to a situation that requires OPSEC and then used for the duration of the situation. There is a LOT to all of this and I am not going to go that deep into it but this should be enough to start getting a plan for communications established and built on from there.

My plans are different than many, but it's what's available to me directly so it's the path I will take. If it gets to the point that the commie's are invading, or whatever, I will be operating P25 with AES encryption. I have plenty of equipment for doing that on VHF and UHF and 900Mhz and the repeaters are programmed for mixed mode, so if they hear P25 modulation with the correct NAC, they switch modes, and power levels going from 50 or less watts to 110 watts. So my PERSONAL communications will be covered. Past that, if the repeaters get really busy, I will begin bringing other pairs on line and doing announcements to more people off to the additional repeaters. Johnstown600 is still in the rack with the breaker pulled. That one goes back up first. It was my linked repeater that I took down since I didn't have the loading I felt mandated the pairs being tied up for. But at that point, I will also be taking donations of diesel fuel to keep the generator running. I have considered requesting the donation of fuel right now to fill the storage tank (275 gallon) but we keep the belly tank (100 gallon) at 1/2 to 3/4 at all times. The one thing about a diesel genset is the ease of getting fuel to it. The fact it's older means it can run on a number of different fuels from heating oil to some jet fuels. And since the current diesel is basically kerosene, it's typically available too. I have larger propane / natural gas units, but getting fuel to them would be a bit more difficult.

As a repeater owner I am noticing a trend that is concerning. I get a good number of repeater access requests that are marked for 'family emergency communications' in the request. I get A LOT of these. Now many of these folks never key the repeater past once or twice to see if they can hit it and verify they are in the coverage area. Then they are never heard from again. But if I have 100 individual license holders that are all considering my repeater as their primary means of communications in a disaster, there's going to be a serious problem. If all those are individual licenses, and not going to communicate with each other, then that's 200 users on one repeater all expecting to able to communicate within their licensed group individually. Meaning the possibility of 100 different conversations that might want to happen at more or less the same time. That's not going to work. The repeater is gonna be on the air for at least a week or two after a failure of the power grid. The generator will run for several days and then the batteries will take over for several more. Not saying that the tower can't fall, but it's not the standard guyed tower that many repeaters are on. It's 50 feet wide at the base with 4 legs and is very sturdy. To the point that the ones that were extended in height had broadcast quality tower sections that were 4 foot faced mounted on TOP of the existing towers to extend them and part of those installs are 60 foot free standing (not guyed) towers mounted to the top of the tower type I have the repeater on. So yes, a direct hit from a tornado may bring the tower down. But a better possibility is the antenna's being ripped from the structure. Outside that, it will be on the air. But it's still ONE repeater, with the possibility of a HUGE number of people wanting to use it at the same time all trying to get in there and use it at once. Now I realize that GMRS requires ZERO understanding of radio to get a license. The service is marketed and meant to fill the need for people that just want radios for whatever communications they require without any additional knowledge or understanding of the underlying technology. Appliance Operators would be a correct description. And that's fine. It's here for that very reason and is the expectation. But if there are a large number of people expecting to all use the same repeater, that never talk on it, you're going to be in for a rude awakening when the SHTF whatever occurs and you yank the radios out of the closet and fire them up and find the repeater you planned to use busy with other traffic.

Well, I could have handled that better. But I see what you were saying. The reason I brought it up was exactly what you said. Holding 3600 or ever 1800 RPM at a steady state with muscle power is not going to be possible. The requirements mechanically to pull it off (mechanical governors and the like) would add both complexity and additional mechanical load to the 'crank' input to maintain that RPM. The poles thing wasn't as important as the need for steady state rotational input for frequency / voltage stability. And as mentioned by others, using a DC generator or alternator with rectifier for DC output is a better option and if you feed that into a storage system (batteries or super capacitors) the energy can be generated and stored for later use in addition to being immediately available for use. I read the big windmills that generate AC power do use a massive CVT (constant velocity transmission) between the blade hub and the generator head. My question is how all that gets synced. You working in power generation probably understood that the generator needed phase synced with the grid before you could connect and start feeding power. Not sure how those pull that off.

Right... calling bullshit on that for SURE. I have a VHF repeater that belongs to NARA (Newark Ama.... ) and that thing has not less than 3 separate IDer's connected to it. They claim to run multiples because if one fails the others will keep them 'legal'. The one is set for every 9 minutes. I have a logging recorder that shows this, 24/7/365 it ID's every 9 minutes. Then there are, as you mentioned, TWO additional 'busy only' IDer's that run. One only announces when it's made busy, by time. But will react to any PTT of the system. The other announces when busy in 15 minute increments based on the actual time so, top and bottom of the hour and 1/4 past and 3/4 past. So, if you key it, it will immediately ID. Then you key it again the second IDer will ID. If it's in the quarter hour, the THIRD IDer goes active. I get on there from time to time... throw my call, wait on the first ID. Reply, WHAT YOU SAY??? Second IDer. COULD YOU REPEAT THAT??? Third IDer. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT YOU SAID,,, or YOU JUST GONNA KEEP REPEATING YOURSELF, WHERE'S THE AI CHAT BOT TO KEEP ME COMPANY? And the NARA people then get on the air all pissed off at me. Of course I explain NO ONE wants to use the dumb thing because you can't have a conversation on it because the IDer's don't polite ID or fall back to quiet CW. They just changed the call sign on the repeater, and it's still like that..... with a new call. Hammies, at least the local ones what their repeater controller to tell time, weather, frequency, PL/DPL, current price of ass wipe. AND the repeater call sign. And it's annoying as hell.

Yeah, especially a PAID access repeater.

Yes, you are 100% predictable Randy. I will leave you to figure out how.

2 pole vs 4 pole on the little ones only have two 'magnets' or fields for the stator. That's how you get 3600 and 1800 RPM with the poles. My guess is, since I don't know on the stuff you were dealing with is if they were multiple parallel sets of 3 phase poles and magnetic fields clocked around the stator. The little ones of course don't really have much room and the field is the armature. It has two poles and is spun. With a much larger head, I could see it having them in parallel, but I have never messed with stuff the size you are talking about or ever really looked into it. The biggest stuff I have first hand experience with is the sub 350Kw stuff down to the pull start 5 HP things. Of course with what you are talking about those heads were smaller than the exciters on the generators you were dealing with. But yes, North pole, south pole and it creates opposing phases. I would assume that since you were generating 3 phase, that it's all paralleled internally to increase current. But in truth, it's all about rise and decay time of the voltage wave. Has to be 60 Hz when it's all done. Phasing is just the timing of the events. For single phase, the events' are 180 degree's out of phase. For 3 phase, it's 120 degree's from each of the other two phases. Still all adds up to 360 degrees. The timing, depending on a fixed RPM is all going to be decided by the clocking of the poles and the number of fields crossing the poles. To make "big power" you parallel the fields and poles to increase current. The voltage of course is controlled by the flux density of the field and the winding count in the stator windings. But I will agree that trying to make sense of whats' going on with a 5 HP portable generator when your experience is with monsters you worked with would be difficult to make sense of. Even looking at the 1 / 3 phase units that are between 10 and 100KW can be daunting. They are wired like a 12 wire electric motor, and the windings can be connected in different series / parallel configurations to produce anything from 120/240 single phase to 480 3 phase. I still don't fully understand how that works, only that if you have the connection diagram for the different ways to wire it, that it will indeed do it. Again, purely guessing, but I would figure you were generating at 13.2KV or something like that to keep the voltage to a minimum because the issues with the insulation on the windings not being able to take much more than that.

From the Generator source web site. Changing Engine Speed to Vary Output Frequency Present-day generators consist of an engine directly connected to an alternator to produce electricity. One of the most common ways of changing the output frequency of a generator is to change the rotation speed of the engine. The two factors are related as per the following formula – Generator Frequency (f) = Number of revolutions per minute of the engine (N) * Number of magnetic poles (P) / 120 Conversely, P = 120*f/N As per the above formula, a 2-pole generator producing an output frequency of 60 Hz has an engine speed of 3,600 rpm. To change the output frequency to 50 Hz for the same generator configuration, the engine speed needs to be reduced to 3,000 rpm. Similarly, for a 4-pole generator, an engine speed of 1,800 rpm produces output of 60 Hz. Reducing the engine speed to 1,500 rpm yields an output of 50 Hz. https://www.generatorsource.com/Generator_Frequency_Conversion.aspx It was a bold statement. But it was a 100% CORRECT bold statement. It comes up as soon as you Google it for God sake. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&q=Generator+poles+and+speed Click down on 2 pole speed, then 4 pole speed and it clearly states what I said. Yes, 3 phase generators have more poles. But most of them are 1800 RPM or lower in operation. Depends on the size of the generator head and the engine size. Big engines don't make 1800 RPM. The mammoth stuff is under 800 RPM. Mind you a train engine diesel motor maxes out at 1000 RPM. Talking about stuff bigger than that. Little pull start gas generators that are 110 only have two poles that are not tapped at the center. Half the winding is on one pole the other half is on the other. For a slightly larger 110/220 generator. Each pole creates 110 volts. There are 3 slip rings on those stators and the center is tapped and those poles are 180 degree's out of phase. So when one side is producing a positive going wave, the other one is producing the negative going wave. Since there is a center tap, each leg can be individually referenced to the center tap and produce 110 volts, and across both legs 220 volts is created since they are 180 degree's out of phase.