WRKC935

OK, from a legal / FCC regulation standpoint. You are NOT allowed to purposefully interfere with the communications of another. You did your due diligence and picked the pair with the lowest signal level at your repeater site. You monitored all the pairs and found that one to at least seem to create the least interference with the co-channel user. You are obviously NOT going to use the PL / DPL code of the other repeater. So that puts you in the clear from doing it wrong. I am not saying that you will not get a letter from the FCC. It could happen, but it's not likely. And as long as you tell them it was the pair with the lowest signal and was the least used of all of them and you used a PL / DPL that was away from theirs, they are gonna look at it and tell you you're fine with what you did.

Yeah, the idea of the voted answer being on top just below the question is it's HOPEFULLY the most correct answer. The idea behind that is again HOPEFULLY someone will search for the question they have and if someone else has already ask it, which is typically the case. It will talke them to the question where someone else ask it and then give them the answer. Last HOPEFULLY, that will fill their request with out asking the same stuff over and over. But that is almost as rare as people getting their posts voted up the list.

I seriously doubt the FCC is going to stop the influx of people getting into GMRS as 'hobbyists' for a few reasons. First is the application that it was meant for meant it was hardly used for that specific reason. About the only legal reason to have GMRS, with a repeater would have been family farming operations. And anyone outside of the family would have needed a license to operate the radios. I actually spoke to someone the other day that was of the belief that you could ONLY talk to people that were covered under your license (family) and while you could share a repeater, you couldn't communicate with other repeater users that were not under your license. The application for something like that is such a small part of the user base of GMRS that it would almost not exist if that were the case. GMRS operators are becoming a source of people being motivated to go further and get a ham license. Folks get into using GMRS, and then realize that there is more to do with ham and get their license for that. Of course that puts more money in the FCC bank account. So screwing with GMRS slows down the income stream from both GMRS and ham licenses. Lastly, if they know their history, they know to not screw with a working service by making changes to it for no good reason. They might remember making CB 40 channels and killing the service. When they did that, all the 23 channel radios were obsolete over night. Because consumers want the newest, latest thing, think iPhone crowds when a new one hits the market. Making a massive change to the service like adding digital, more channels, something else to the service and requiring a new radio. Then think about what those additions might do to a service that is wide band analog, like adding digital and therefore digital interference to the channels, it quickly becomes a problem with complaints. Complaints require man power to investigate. And if it's a service that isn't controlled by frequency coordination then it will turn into a mess and lots of calls. I have said before, people are typically unwilling to assist with things like repeater maintenance but if their free repeater service goes away, they will call and complain in short order that 'their' radio / repeater isn't working and that's just not acceptable. Interference is not going to be acceptable to the masses and they will call the FCC to complain, so if it's not there, there is nothing to complain about.

Will the image run on a Pi 4... NO. There is a long discussion thread on here about getting a Pi 4 running on the system. But it's from long ago when the 4 first came out. If you have experience with the Pi, Debian and scripts, I would advise you to go load the available image on a Pi 3 and go dig through the 'repeaterfinder.sh script in the /home/repeater directory and see what it does to the Pi as it runs. That script loads Asterisk and several other applications that support the connectivity to the system here. Once you get a feel for what's going on, and look into what those applications are doing you might be able to figure out what more current versions of those applications need to be loaded that are supported by the Pi 4 platform. I can't remember the actual version that's included in the Pi 3 image, but it's not real current. Some of the stuff called in the script has depreciated as well. So it may or may NOT work correctly either. Even on a R-Pi 3

Will it work? Depends on your definition and application. First issue is phasing and overlap. If the splitter cables are not equal length then the overlap will have issues with not only the nulls from the beam width, but rf cancellation due to phase differences. I would advise you to back up and look at the pattern of a single folded dipole and a yagi like you are talking about. If you put four of them together at 90 degree angles from each other, you are going to see there are gaps. Higher gain (more elements on the yagis will result in narrower beam width and bigger gaps. I am not gonna say it will not work. It can work and in some situations like being on a coast of next to an area with no population, it might even be a good solution. But in those situations you are NOT wanting 360 degree coverage.

Well, what method? You can click on the node on the map, click manage and it will come up and allow you to type in a node number to connect to. This does require that your firewall is correctly configured for the port mapping (typically port 4569) to be passed directly through to the Pi IP address. If you want to do it via the Pi on a keyboard. You will need to log into the Pi. Type 'sudo asterisk -r' the prompt will change. Type rpt fun 24001 *3xxxxx with the xxxxx being the node number you want to connect to. Via RF it's a DTMF command. *3XXXXX. Again XXXXX is the node number. You should get a verbal announcement that the connection was made with both node numbers or you will get a 'connection failed'. This is if you haven't been messing about in the configuration files turning things on and off. But that's the three methods I use on a regular basis.

Yeah, it really depends on how the whole thing is structured and how the funds are distributed. If it's a club, with some type of benefit outside of just repeater access. And the funds are used for things outside of the upkeep of the repeater, then it's legal. Part of the benefit can be using the repeater, but it can't typically be the only benefit. And it has to be a 'club'. Meaning that there needs to be some level of organization with members, a board or some sort of body, and the repeater 'owner' shouldn't be the President in Perpetuity. If it's a club, there can be 'profit' but it can't just build, or simply all go to the repeater owner and not be used for other club functions. It gets a bit into a gray area, and I doubt that the FCC is gonna audit books. I am not a big fan of pay to play if it can be avoided. But, owning and maintaining repeaters personally, I can tell you that unless your name is McCloud and you are running around chopping of head's and saying "There can be Only One" at 50 or 100 bucks a year, you will NEVER get close to the cost of owning a repeater in your lifetime at that rate.

And the other issue is personalities and 'friends and not so much / enemies' on a forum. Keeping personal feelings out of it can be difficult. You and I have had a couple 'issues' of course. Not a big secret. If either of us had been a moderator with ban hammer abilities, the other one of us would have been gone. At least for a minute until the board owner got involved and unbanned whoever, and probably removed the other from being a moderator. And that would have been a detriment to the board if it would have happened to either of us. We both have made significant contributions to the 'shared knowledge' on here.

you mean the command to connect to another node? Via keyboard, web or RF? And does the node show up on the map?

And I see that as being completely reasonable. And I honestly expect it to happen here at some point with the mygmrs.com network, and in truth it seems that it already has to a degree. Now my understanding is that mygmrs.com is repeaters only. And possibly a leaning to high profile repeaters being strongly preferred. And I would hope that there is some level of over site that keeps three guys on the same cul te sac from all putting up linked repeaters. Allowing every swinging dick in the sound of your voice to connect whatever to the system ruins the system. Simplex nodes, and I believe they had allowed not only Zello but soft phone connections to the system and that REALLY turns into a mess. I know that there are a couple groups that put Zello on their wide area networks as a tool for repeater owners to use on an as needed basis. But those should never be for everyone to abandon their radio and just use Zello. I also believe they were allowing digital ham radio 'hot spots' on the network which again has little to no coverage footprint outside someones house. He was doing all that by himself. Which is a huge undertaking. And obviously was overwhelming for him as time went on. Someone also mentioned it was pretty thankless, and yes, I tend to agree that you don't get much outside help with this sort of stuff. But if it's broke, everyone is quick to bitch about their FREE access to the service isn't working and they what it fixed immediately. Couple things I think we need for this system. Of course this is strictly my opinion but I am gonna throw it out there. First is documents on how to add a blacklist to a node. Now that everything is immediately available for download and getting a node number is simple as clicking a link, I think we are going to need that ability as the system grows. Knowing that the underlying system is All Star Link, there should be a document somewhere explaining how to do it but I haven't looked. People should have the ability to block other nodes from connecting to them if they desire to do so. It does exist right now, but there isn't specific instructions for that available. Guess, that was only one thing.... I guess the other would be adopt a fixed set of rules on what can be connected. I don't know that there is documentation saying high profile repeaters only. I don't know that there is a requirement that you can't link to a system that already has coverage in your area. I do know that one puts people into a spin, and rightly so. There is ZERO sense in having coverage overlap of any great degree on the same system. It's going to exist to some degree, but we shouldn't have the SAD HAM attitude of I want my call sign on a repeater too, and I want it linked to the same system that's 2 miles down the road simply because I can do it. Right now, there isn't anything in writing to indicate that. But I believe there needs to be.

I am not sure where he is, but it might be some state law mandating that. Hell, you can't pump your own gas in New Jersey. Has to be a station employee and they are all Union. But that would be my guess.

Yeah, I suppose a factual explanation is in order. SO a NODE is actually a small computer (typically a Raspberry Pi) that is using an IP (Internet Protocol) based PBX (Private Branch Exchange) or telephone system (think similar to a business phone system connected on a network). The software uses the Internet to create 'conference bridges' more or less to link the computers together so they can carry transmit and receive audio and PTT telemetry to the other nodes that are connected. A vast part of the nodes are a single PBX (stand alone phone system) with a single extension (the repeater connected to it) to join the conference bridges. Now you can technically support multiple extensions on a PBX. These can be other repeaters, or they can be SIP soft phones like Zoiper (what I use) or an actual IP telephone and those can be bridges as well. If you are using a SIP interface, of course there is no PTT button on either the soft phone or an IP desk set so you have to use dial buttons for the keying. Anyone with Google can find out this will work. I am not going to go into how it works, nor will I go into how to do it (the soft phone / IP phone thing. I will say that it's not supported on the mygmrs.com system and messing with someone's nodes is also a big no no so don't be trying to experiment on this system. Although simplex nodes are possible, I don't know that is supported on here either. But I am NOT the person to ask about that. There are others here that can comment if they choose to. The previous answer was in response to the fact that there are a number of folks that don't like linking. And there is much debate on if it's really even legal according to the FCC regulations. To the point I had a connected repeater on the system and took it down because of the continued questions about the legality of it. So, if you want to play in that arena, do so with your eyes wide open and understanding that questions exist about doing it. I didn't want to get too deep in the weeds on how this all works. I think this should be a reasonable explanation to give you an understanding of the underlying technology in play.

Yep, nodes are a point of contention around here. Some feel that nodes are BAD... The bane of GMRS and the thing that will destroy the very fabric of the service. They are not to be allowed, nor trusted. They bring only hate and dismay to the masses. No one in their right mind would use a linked repeater because they use NODES to do the linking. You really need to avoid them at all costs. Beware the Node. They are run by communist sympathizers that are out to overthrow the government, and tax the very air you breathe. Or, you can realize that linked repeater systems are a good way to expand your circle of acquaintances. If a system is large, the chances of not finding someone to chat with on a ride home, even in the middle of the night are pretty slim. And since when do you need to keep the people you converse with within a 20 mile radius of your home?

I am thinking we just talked about this. And I was right. Go give that a read and it will answer your question.

Now you also mentioned ASL specifically. I am going to assume that you are talking about ASL for ham. The ASL for ham will run on an X64 or AMD platform without any issues. You just need the correct version of it to load it on the Linux OS you choose to use. That procedure is fairly well documented and isn't really difficult since it's need done many times. Google is your friend here.

OK, you need to understand that GMRSLIVE, and other GMRS linking setup's are all repurposed ASL with some changes in the back end. If you have a strong understanding of the underlying operations of ASL you know that there are node files, which are a sort of DNS for linking nodes together. Obviously you can't use the node list from the HAM version of ASL, it has to be separate. Once you grasp that, then you realize that you need a method of getting that node file. ASL of course uses a script to go download it from the ASL servers. Well, we are back to you can't get that file and use it. You need the one from GMRSLIVE servers. or whatever system you are attaching to. Then there is the configuration of allowed nodes. With the mygmrs.com system the nodes for serves double duty. That is the list of attachable nodes, and the individual nodes verify a node is listed before it will allow a connection. Again, we don't want ham nodes and GMRS nodes interconnecting. SO there's that. Then we get into a registration server. Your node typically is going to report to a server to upload connection status. The whole is it on line, what nodes it's connected to, that stuff. And again, all this stuff is DIFFERENT for GMRSLIVE and other linking systems. So how do you get it working on something other than a pi? First thing to understand here is you are typically going to have some sort of a script that will download and install the specific software packages that the software as a whole will use for the functions mentioned above. And there's the rub. The scripts will call for the Raspberry Pi "ARM" versions of the different packages as the script runs. If you are building the node on a Pi, then no problems, unless the package versions being called have been sunset or whatever they call it, and are simply not available for download any more. But if they are out there, they just download and all is right with the world. BUT, if you are on an X64 platform, and you are calling for ARM software, its' not going to work. So what options do you have? First is knowing Linux fairly well. Which funny enough, I DON'T. Then you need to understand scripts. Again, not my strong suite. You will need to figure out getting the scripts modified to load the correct dependencies, that are both available and are for the correct CPU platform. You will also need to ensure that the script either loads the software packages and dependencies BEFORE it starts running the configuration commands. Lastly, you will need to ensure that the commands for the scripts are correct for the packages and dependencies. Refer back to the I DON'T KNOW part before asking anything specific. Cuz I doubt I personally will be able to help you. How did I figure all this out? I was just smart enough to know I didn't know crap, and enlisted the assistance of a 6 figure salaried Linux SysAdmin that DID know. He went through the scripts for the mygmrs.com system and produced scripts that would call the correct versions of software and the dependencies for the platform I was running. Now you can have a discussion with the folks at GMRSLIVE and see if they have a proper script for running a node on an X64 or whatever platform you are attempting to use. And that's gonna be your best bet. Short of that, you will need to reverse engineer their script and modify it to work the way YOU need it to.

You are going to need to research the PL / DPL codes that the 'subchannels' have assigned to them. Obviously it's going to be using the assigned frequencies for the channels, so the only 'sub' to it is PL tones for transmit and receive.

I guess the question is what are you trying to accomplish, and what current access do you have to a tower? What height is it and what are you trying to cover? There is software out there that will give you are reasonably good idea of your coverage footprint based on those things.

Now the 501C3 status is an interesting situation with tower owners. Because of the non-profit status, the tower owners can DONATE the tower space for an agreed to amount that is in line with standard rates and take that as a write off on their tax liabilities. I don't know that any of them actually do that, but there is no reason they couldn't do it other than the paperwork involved.

Yep, you are right. And i missed that like a rebellious teenager misses the school bus. But that at least DOES put to rest the idea that the FCC pays ZERO attention to the GMRS service. That was a letter from last year, so there is some enforcement going on. So we are seeing enforcement, and those regulations are pretty clear and worded in a way that crossing your eyes and standing on one foot while listening to Ozzy playing backwards on the record player could be construed to NOT mean exactly what they say. The topic at had is still written in hieroglyphics only to be deciphered by lawyers and federal judges at a time of their choosing. I think I will just sell the linked repeater off and buy a 20KW CB amp. At least I KNOW there isn't any enforcement going on with CB radio. Knowing that there is enforcement on the GMRS service furthers my concern of being that guy that they decided to make an example of. High Plains Drifter in the Buckeye just got down..

Wrong person, wrong repeater, wrong violation, and wrong date range. This has NOTHING to do with linking, simulcast, or being in New York. This was violations related to playing of music, or other sound effects. Continuous transmissions that didn't have life safety information in them. Not giving his ID every 15 minutes and not having proper Type accepted equipment. The fact he was transmitting on 467.625 and not 462.625 means he was a probably a repeater user... not the repeater owner that would have been responsible for the repeated content of the repeater. But repeater owners aren't liable for the content of other users past disabling an owned repeater if there is a violation that doesn't cease by other means. Like telling a user to go pound sand and get off the repeater. Or having a repeater stuck in transmit for an extended period and not turning it off and getting it fixed.

And the risk aversion part is why I took my linked repeater down. If you get a notice from a federal agency about something you are doing, you are going to need a specialized federal lawyer that has experience with whatever you are being accused of. The Dewey, Cheatum and How ambulance chasers on the local TV ad's that have "I SUE4U' on the license plates of their Mercedes of Cadillac are NOT even going to talk to you about your legal issues with a federal agency. And their "I don't get paid unless YOU get paid" pricing doesn't apply to specialized federal attorneys either. It's gonna take a couple grand just to find out how screwed you are, if that is the case. Getting into court and fighting something coming from the federal government in a federal courtroom is gonna easily exceed 10 grand. And the government knows this and uses it against you to just pay their fine and cease doing whatever it is they don't like.

I honestly wish they would speak up. It would clear up the confusion a LOT.

Huh? American Tower, Crown Castle and the others give discounts for ham??? When did that start? I know of a couple sites that they bought that the previous owners had extended low rent leases for hams that carried over. But at least in once case, when that lease finally expired, they went to full rent of over 1K a month and then tried to force the repeater owner to have their antenna removed by one of their 'approved' tower contractors at a cost of over 5 grand. They ended up abandoning the antenna system

And in truth, we don't even know that happened.